Is it possible to throw an object ball? Nope
- Thread starter mohrt
- Start date
And... your opinion would be correct... in my opinion.
FYI to those interested, here are two online videos covering this type of shot:
NV B.25 - Using draw and English to beat a scratch in a side pocket, with Tom Ross
NV B.31 - Using inside English and follow to beat a scratch and get down-table position
NV B.31 - Using inside English and follow to beat a scratch and get down-table position
Enjoy,
Dave
Glad you liked them, if you don't need to get down table i would normally use low right and draw into the tit. i always liked the shot with inside for going down the table it seems to come up alot in games. Jeff
Good vids, Dave. I thank you for everyone.
Agreed, But be careful with that tit thing. Too much tit is not always a good thing & not enough tit can also be a bad thing. It's always relative to the situuation.
It's not poilte to ask a woman her age. So, how many years have you studied this game?
Ester Williams' husband, Fernando Lamas, would comlement a woman or even a man (no suggestion by that) by saying, "You look maaaarvelous! simply maaarvelous!
Well....You look Luxurious! Simply Luzurious!
No flirt. I'm happily married for 31 years with 4 grown 'children'. I just thought you might get a kick out of that.
I think you already know but, I'll bite. When the CB make's off center contact with the OB, the OB is pushed a little forward of the contact line before the CB ricochets in a somewhat opppsite direction. That's what I call "throw"
JDale
I think throw is more general than that. I prefer:
When the cue ball makes contact with the object ball, the line joining the centers of the two balls at the instant of contact predicts where the object ball is expected to go. If there is relative sideways motion of the cue ball's surface against the object ball, friction between the balls will cause the object ball to depart from that ideal line-of-centers path with a small component in the direction of the rubbing. This action is called "throw".
That makes it clearer that spin-induced throw and contact induced throw are really the same thing.
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Good explanation. Here's the definition from my online glossary:
throw: object ball motion away from the impact line (line of centers) due to relative sideways sliding motion between the cue ball and object ball caused by sidespin or a cut angle.
A more visual explanation can be found in the first two diagrams of the following article:
"Throw - Part I: introduction" (Billiards Digest, August, 2006)
Demonstrations of many throw effects can be found here:
And for those who are much more interested in this topic, a lot more info can be found here:
Regards,
Dave
Not the same physics. Not the SAME thing. Similiar results.
Not the same as what?
Bob's description is dead on and agrees with Dr. Dave's - and with real physics (not the kind you just make up and give names like "momentum push").
pj
chgo
Can you describe an experiment that demonstrates that throw is different for the two cases?
Are you assuming that the poster looks like his/her avatar?
Hmmm....perhaps it's time for ENGLISH to meet Luxury.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIIzlJfvt38
They are similar in that they both effect the OB from a non-straight on, clancing contact.
They are dis-similiar in that one 'throw' or 'push' is from momentum the other is from the clancing contact of a spinning cue ball.
You can NOT effect the path of an OB through momentum with a 'straight on', 'no cut', 'no angle' 'non clancing contact' hit.
You can effect the path of an OB thru side spin with a 'straight on', 'no cut', 'no angle', 'clancing contact' of a side spinning cue 'hit' on an OB.
In a cutting situation they are very similar. But... you can deminish, or possibly even offset or reverse a momentum 'throw' or 'push' depending on the particulars, with a side spinning 'clancing contact' cue ball. They are two(2) seperate forces either working WITH or AGAINST each other. They are not the same.
Therefore they are two(2) (same 'type') different forces from two (2) different sources.
The effect on the OB is from a 'clancing contact' in both instances. But the clancing contact comes from two(2) different sources.
Hence, they are not the same 'thing'. That is why I distinguish them differently. The spin one is 'throw' & the momentum one is 'push'.
English is caused by 'clancing contact' of the tip on the CB. The 'lift' shot (that in my opinion is not a lift shot if the OB does not leave the table) of the other thread is a 'clancing contact' of the tip on the CB. Is all english a miscue?
If I laid the butt of the stick on the table & hit the CB near top center, while holding the stick between the butt & the tip, be a legal shot. Apparently not because it seems that no shot shooting 'up' is legal unless you do it throught the pocket.
I'm tired of vernacullar wars. Ive gotten nothing good or helpful to me from this site & will be leaving shortly.
Good luck to everyone in your learning process. I hope it does not take everyone 40 years to learn about small caroms. It took me about 5 minutes, but I was taking high school physics & calculus at the time.
Sorry for the dig, but I'm fed up & I'm going to soon regurgitate my brief AZ experience & find more personal 'non paying' pupils to whom I can pass on my 'knowledge' so that I don't take it to the grave with me. I thought this might have been a better 'forum' but obviously it is not, at least not for me.
I'm breaking down my cue.
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If you were the CB what difference would you feel between a straight-on shot thrown with sidespin vs. an equivalent cut?
pj
chgo
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The easiest way to understand why throw doesn't occur when hit with anything harder than a soft or medium soft hit is TORQUE::
Know why it's difficult to go from zero to sixty miles per hour in just a few seconds without SOME kind of peel out?
The lack of TORQUE. Your tires need to first grab the road. Your tires have tread on them so that they don't slide around on the pavement. Same goes for the asphalt. It's textured so that friction helps your car from swerving around and hitting old people in the crosswalk. When you take off slowly, your tires have a chance to GRAB onto the pavement and PULL themselves forward.
When you hit the cue ball slower, you are giving it more TORQUE. The ball may be spinning slow, but it has plenty of energy for it to GRAB the object ball and THROW it. It is in contact with the object ball LONGER.
Hitting it HARD will make it spin FAST, like your tires in a peel-out, but it won't cause any throw because it will be in contact with the object ball for an exponentially shorter time.
Therefore, applying throw to an object ball requires such a precise amount of spin, power, and hit the exact point needed. This is why it is so hard to prove that throw exists. Simply because you can't get throw on a particular shot doesn't mean throw is nonexistent. It means you're hitting it wrong.
Know why it's difficult to go from zero to sixty miles per hour in just a few seconds without SOME kind of peel out?
The lack of TORQUE. Your tires need to first grab the road. Your tires have tread on them so that they don't slide around on the pavement. Same goes for the asphalt. It's textured so that friction helps your car from swerving around and hitting old people in the crosswalk. When you take off slowly, your tires have a chance to GRAB onto the pavement and PULL themselves forward.
When you hit the cue ball slower, you are giving it more TORQUE. The ball may be spinning slow, but it has plenty of energy for it to GRAB the object ball and THROW it. It is in contact with the object ball LONGER.
Hitting it HARD will make it spin FAST, like your tires in a peel-out, but it won't cause any throw because it will be in contact with the object ball for an exponentially shorter time.
Therefore, applying throw to an object ball requires such a precise amount of spin, power, and hit the exact point needed. This is why it is so hard to prove that throw exists. Simply because you can't get throw on a particular shot doesn't mean throw is nonexistent. It means you're hitting it wrong.
It isn't hard at all.
pj
chgo