Don Sherman / sureman183

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this is not good for the industry, and chris is stand up and a pleasure.how about you get the gus back and i donate 300 to refinish by barry and maybee the forum guys can come up with the rest! and we turn this bad thread into somthing positive!!!

Not a chance! With all do respect and when I am ready to purchase a high end cue you are my go to guy. That being said, while I feel for Chris and your offer is generous, why on earth would we donate money so someone can get his $8500 toy improved. Among causes to donate this has to be the least on the list, around az or otherwise.

Nice thought though Bill.
 
Nevermind Bill. I re-read your post and know think you meant the cue dealer industry on the board. Makes more sense to me know. As Gilda Radner use to say ,"Nevermind"
 
I don't normally chime in on these threads, but I've been soaking it all in the last couple days.

I know Don from personal dealings and Chris via reputation only. IMO, both are of good character.

I've had deals with Don in the past where details of items were overlooked and we discussed options and solutions were found. Don's always been one to make things right if there was a problem.

Obviously, I wasn't a witness to this deal, but I think I have a general idea of how this situation has unfolded from the beginning until now.

There have been moves made by both parties, without malicious intent, that have heightened the situation.

Don unknowingly trades a Gus that's refinished by someone other than Barry.

Chris finds that fact out a bit later.

Showman is already gone.

The parties try to resolve the problem with a new trade involving some cash, a Barry, and a Shick.

Barry comes with a gimpy leg and the 'who owes who' on the cash is mixed up. (I've had this happen to me before with Don and it's not uncommon for Don to slip every now and then. He always got his bearings in the end though.)

This is now twice Chris hasn't gotten what he's been expecting.

Situation escalates right around the time Don is trying to gather funds for Tunica.

Without the money from the Showman, nor the Barry for a trade option now that it's come up gimp, Don may feel helpless to remedy the situation.

Phone calls get heated and tempers flare.

In Don's mind, he may think he's given multiple options/chances to Chris at 'fixing' things.

Chris is told there's no more options.

Don heads to Tunica.

The thread is born and Don isn't able to defend himself.

The thread thrives and opinions accumulate.

Here we are.

Again, this is just how I see it and if you disagree with me, that's fine.

Now I want to make this crystal clear: I am not defending Don here. The start of this entire debacle came from a misrepresented Gus.

However, I do feel that a lot of 'fuel' factors worked against Don and Chris in this deal.

Don sometimes overlooks things. He doesn't do it on purpose, it just happens.
Showman was sold almost immediately after the trade.
Money was gone shortly after most likely.
Barry had a gimp leg.
Payor and payee confusion of monies owed caused tension.
Phone conflict.
Tunica on the horizon had Don scrambling for cash.
Don's lack of response because he's at Tunica causes flames.

Redundant, I know. I just want to point out that there were a lot of events that added fuel to the fire here.

At his core, I believe Don to be a good man and he will make this right. I know he will. We just have to let him FIND a way to do it. It may not be an easy solution for him right now.

Chris, you're not wrong. You deserve the Gus as was described or the Showman returned. You've been patient to this point, please show a bit more of patience and give Don a little more time to wrap his mind around the situation.

Don, when you get back from Tunica, call Chris and try to fix this. Whether or not you felt offended on the phone by Chris or felt that you've offered multiple solutions, the situation has yet to be resolved and you're the only one that can make it right.

Both of you...please try to start over. I know it's hard once things have been done and words have been spoken, but I know both of you want to walk away from this with the items you want and your reputations intact.
I also know that neither of you are malicious people.

It's my belief that the only people that should be involved in this from this point on should be Chris, Don, a mediator, and possibly Barry to do the refinish on the Gus if that's what it'll take to make everything right.

That said, none of us REALLY know all the ins and outs of this situation from beginning to end except for Don and Chris. Ultimately, it's up to them to resolve it which I think they will.

Sorry if this was a bit muddled,

Mike
 
I continue to find it amazing that Don doesn't have internet capabilities on his travels.
I'm in no way dissing him for it, it is just that I thought I was the only one who is still kicking and screaming my way into the 20th Century:grin:
 
Very well written Mike. I think your assessment is spot on.


I will take the Gus back, no questions asked. I will ship the two cues I have back to Don. And everything will be settled as far as I am concerned.


That will be a minimal loss of monies for both parties.
 
I am hesistent to comment but again, I jump in to give my perspective.

I always, always offer a money back guarentee. I think I have had 2-3 cues returned to me. I always gave their money back no question. I have probably done 200-300 deals over the years. While I did and never said a word about it, I frankly was surprized when someone wanted to have their money back.

I bought a Gus cue from a dealer on here at AZ in the Northeast. No problem at all, but he too offered 100% (less shipping) money back on the deal.

Not making excuses and trying to not take sides, I think Don got in a mess when traded cues got sold and then instead of a simple deal it got to be multiple deal very quickly.

I have bought cues from Don at DCC. I dont know Chris but he seems okay too.

I hope this works out okay for everybody.

Ken

It bothered me I didnt remember the cue dealer I bought my Gus from, it was Ken Kerner. He was excellent to work with. We discussed the cue and he gave me as accurate a description as humanly possible. I got the cue, he called me to see if I was satisfied. I was and thought he described the cue exactly as I saw it.

I would recommend him, without question.

Ken
 
Let's keep This Thread Alive Without More Posts

The "only" thing that counts right now is that CMD becomes satisfied with the cue purchase/reversal....no matter what that involves on the part of "Sureman".

Tro's post offered an olive branch of a sort and let's see how long it takes for CMD to tell us either there's been no status change or he's satisfied. Aside from that, nothing else would seem to suffice.....don't ya think?

So for the moment, albeit temporary, it's worthwhile to refrain from offering more of the same negative thoughts or occasional support toward Don. However, if he keeps pulling more of the same old crap with CMD, or doesn't want to live up to his responsibilites as the cue seller, let's make sure everyone pounds him even harder all over again on the Forum and promite a boycott on doing any business with Sureman. If that stage gets reached, even Sureman's most ardent supporters would have to chime in agreeing he's just being a smuck........so let's see if he comes through and resolves the situation to CMD's satisfaction in a "timely" way.

CMD....I can only speak for myself, but I'll stand down for now and await your further update about the overall progress or final resolution of the cue problem. However, I will bump this thread, and also encourage other Forum members to do likewise, to ensure it remains a front page topic until you instruct otherwise.


"BUMP TO THE FRONT"
 
I'm good with this for now, bumps only unless someone...

Quote from Bava...
CMD....I can only speak for myself, but I'll stand down for now and await your further update about the overall progress or final resolution of the cue problem. However, I will bump this thread, and also encourage other Forum members to do likewise, to ensure it remains a front page topic until you instruct otherwise.
 
If he isn't answering his emails or calls, why would he respond here? Seems like you just want everyone on AZB to know there is some bad business going down, which is fine, but I hardly think this is the best way to reach him. If, in fact, that was the purpose of this thread.
 
Bump, to the front. read post 211.

Quote from Skyscraper,
If he isn't answering his emails or calls, why would he respond here? Seems like you just want everyone on AZB to know there is some bad business going down, which is fine, but I hardly think this is the best way to reach him. If, in fact, that was the purpose of this thread.
 
Update - I was going to talk to Don last night but it became too late after he packed. He is supposed to call me today after I get out of work today. I am hopeful we can come to a resolution.


I will update AZ later tonight. I hope to share good news and an end to this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Update - I was going to talk to Don last night but it became too late after he packed. He is supposed to call me today after I get out of work today. I am hopeful we can come to a resolution.


I will update AZ later tonight. I hope to share good news and an end to this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good News...I think Don will make this right, and here's to hoping he and CMD can agree on terms to end all this in a timely matter......
 
hey its...

I don't know sureman183 at all. People who do know him say he's a good guy with a good heart, and for all I know that could be true.
But he's sure not making me or a lot of other people out here into believers right now.

I'm sure that he doesn't like all this discussion on AZ about a cue deal that went south, and he's probably upset and angry about all this bad PR.
He didn't plan on this happening, he's into cues has a pretty good rep
and he been doing this for 30+ years and is just trying to turn a buck.
The thing is sometimes sh*t happens when it does you just got to check your ego at the door, swallow your pride, tuck your hurt feelings away
and sort things out. The thing is sureman183 has the power to end all this whenever he wants, it's that simple.

So when people come out here and throw terms around like lynch mob
and your trying to tar and feather him, nobodies trying to do that, it makes me laugh!

But you know who's not laughing right now though, Chris.
That's right Chris isn't laughing because here's a guy
who's probably dreamed about owning a Gus for years.
Finally he gets in a position where he can go out and make it happen.
So he goes out and tries to purchase his dream $8,500 Gus.
Things go south and he ends up in the middle of this sh*t storm.

Guess what he's out money, doesn't have his dream Gus, somehow he's
got two cues he's got to sell (one with a warped shaft).
When he started out trying to buy one cue. Chris didn't plan on this happening either, and he's upset too.

So both of these guys, Don and Chris have things in common.
Their both upset, they both didn't want this to happen, they both love
cues, they both have good reps, they both have people who speak well
of them. Dons been doing this longer than Chris and is more experienced,
so there's a difference but with all these other things you both have in common I think you guys can work this out.

Chris wants to speak and work this out, as can be seen by the way the first posts were worded he never wanted it to come to this. Your both
grown men, so if you both check your egos and tuck away your hurt feelings I'm sure the both of you can work this out.

You both just want this to go away, but it's not going to away on it's own. Chris can't do this without you Don so the balls in your court, you hold the power to make this happen and end this!
Good Luck!

WOW...

you have made one of the "best of all time" posts

thank you SIR...

all the best,
smokey
 
Great

I don't normally chime in on these threads, but I've been soaking it all in the last couple days.

I know Don from personal dealings and Chris via reputation only. IMO, both are of good character.

I've had deals with Don in the past where details of items were overlooked and we discussed options and solutions were found. Don's always been one to make things right if there was a problem.

Obviously, I wasn't a witness to this deal, but I think I have a general idea of how this situation has unfolded from the beginning until now.

There have been moves made by both parties, without malicious intent, that have heightened the situation.

Don unknowingly trades a Gus that's refinished by someone other than Barry.

Chris finds that fact out a bit later.

Showman is already gone.

The parties try to resolve the problem with a new trade involving some cash, a Barry, and a Shick.

Barry comes with a gimpy leg and the 'who owes who' on the cash is mixed up. (I've had this happen to me before with Don and it's not uncommon for Don to slip every now and then. He always got his bearings in the end though.)

This is now twice Chris hasn't gotten what he's been expecting.

Situation escalates right around the time Don is trying to gather funds for Tunica.

Without the money from the Showman, nor the Barry for a trade option now that it's come up gimp, Don may feel helpless to remedy the situation.

Phone calls get heated and tempers flare.

In Don's mind, he may think he's given multiple options/chances to Chris at 'fixing' things.

Chris is told there's no more options.

Don heads to Tunica.

The thread is born and Don isn't able to defend himself.

The thread thrives and opinions accumulate.

Here we are.

Again, this is just how I see it and if you disagree with me, that's fine.

Now I want to make this crystal clear: I am not defending Don here. The start of this entire debacle came from a misrepresented Gus.

However, I do feel that a lot of 'fuel' factors worked against Don and Chris in this deal.

Don sometimes overlooks things. He doesn't do it on purpose, it just happens.
Showman was sold almost immediately after the trade.
Money was gone shortly after most likely.
Barry had a gimp leg.
Payor and payee confusion of monies owed caused tension.
Phone conflict.
Tunica on the horizon had Don scrambling for cash.
Don's lack of response because he's at Tunica causes flames.

Redundant, I know. I just want to point out that there were a lot of events that added fuel to the fire here.

At his core, I believe Don to be a good man and he will make this right. I know he will. We just have to let him FIND a way to do it. It may not be an easy solution for him right now.

Chris, you're not wrong. You deserve the Gus as was described or the Showman returned. You've been patient to this point, please show a bit more of patience and give Don a little more time to wrap his mind around the situation.

Don, when you get back from Tunica, call Chris and try to fix this. Whether or not you felt offended on the phone by Chris or felt that you've offered multiple solutions, the situation has yet to be resolved and you're the only one that can make it right.

Both of you...please try to start over. I know it's hard once things have been done and words have been spoken, but I know both of you want to walk away from this with the items you want and your reputations intact.
I also know that neither of you are malicious people.

It's my belief that the only people that should be involved in this from this point on should be Chris, Don, a mediator, and possibly Barry to do the refinish on the Gus if that's what it'll take to make everything right.

That said, none of us REALLY know all the ins and outs of this situation from beginning to end except for Don and Chris. Ultimately, it's up to them to resolve it which I think they will.

Sorry if this was a bit muddled,

Mike
Great job of summing it all up.I think you are right abt. Don and Tunnica, and everything else you said . Good job.
 
I was told Barry would refinish the Gus (and I figured this was my best bet) and I would pay the refinish cost. I sent Don an email saying I was displeased with the Barry and how it was represented after I spoke to a previous owner of the cue. Regret took over and I sent Don an apology a few hours later via email. I decided to call Don (which was his preferred method) and ask if he would ship the Gus back (at my cost) and I would have the cue refinished (at my cost). He agreed.


I was a pretty happy guy at this point. Even though it was going to cost me the refinish, I would have a Gus Szamboti window that I had desired for many years.

IMO that is where it should have ended. The buyer is actually offering to eat the cost of the refinish on a cue that was SUPPOSED to have already been refinished by Barry. This is the cue that the buyer originally purchased, this is the cue that the deal was originally done with, the cue was misrepresented and the buyer is STILL willing to accept the cue and spend considerable money making it a true Barry refinished Gus.

To refuse this is simply wrong. Give back the Gus, take back the warped Barry and the other cue, that is the clear and obvious right move to end this.
 
Please Let This Thread Rest....Just bump It.....

Deleted This Post....Sorry.....Duplicate Thread
 
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Maybe We Should Let This Thread Run ....Sans Comments

Folks.....sorry if my posts sound like I'm trying to tell others what to do......CMD & Sureman deserve the opportunity to work things out as originally proposed by Tro who did a great job bringing two combatants together.....at least that's what the overall hope appears to be.

Any further posts by me, aside from just a bump to the front page, would otherwise seem to be essentially frivilous, as would anyone's else's for that matter. After all, no one wants to read someone's posted cudo acknowledgement to some other forum poster, or add their own 2 cents on what should have or could have been done....."if"....."if"....."if".....the smallest word in the English language with the biggest meaning.

"If" we all just let this matter rest until CMD reports back that nothing has happened or that anything Sureman proposed was unacceptable, the buyer and seller would seem to be better off. As previously suggested, let's try keeping this matter on the Front Page without more editorial views, like my own even right now. I realize some readers might find my comments bothersome and could strongly disgaree with remarks I've made expressed this matter. Ergo, I invite those readers to contact me via PM with any criticisms or sarcasms.

However, in the interim, both CMD & Sureman would be much better served
with some quiet time on the Forum with this thread but by no means does that suggest not keeping this on the front page of the Forum with everyone's daily bumps..........even the Forum Moderators had to have recognized that this topic is important and decided to let things play out for awhile.............Let's see if Sureman has repented and is willing to try and do the right thing.............not because it would be profitable for him to do so but because it's the morally right thing.

Perhaps if we hear back from CMD that this is what he'd prefer to see happen with this thread, it could then run "as is" with regular bumps. Let's keep in mind that only CMD knows how long he's prepared to wait before hearing from Sureman and personally working out any amicable and
satisfactory solution with Sureman at this point in time...................just my 3 cents on this topic.
 
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