Pro bar table 8-ball.

steev

steev

Lazy User
Silver Member
Like most of the US, I play primarily 8 ball on a bar table. It's a game just about everyone can understand, on some level.

Playing tonight, I got in stroke for a while and was playing pretty quickly. I always enjoy playing at 'full speed', much more than playing more slowly.

This got me thinking, maybe that's what's missing from pool: the pressure of fast play. What if 'pro 8 ball' was on a table everyone can relate to, a barbox, with a wicked short shot clock? 10 seconds from when the balls stop rolling should be plenty for 8 ball. First shooter after the break gets longer, maybe 30 seconds.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this sounds very competitive and very watchable.

I would think software for the shot clock is easy to make, and the same cam(s) could be used to stream as well. Venues could have a 'pro arena' with very little investment. Maybe small teams of 3, goegraphically located?

well, there's my thoughts. discuss.

-s
 
Pool or speed pool?

steev said:
Like most of the US, I play primarily 8 ball on a bar table. It's a game just about everyone can understand, on some level.

Playing tonight, I got in stroke for a while and was playing pretty quickly. I always enjoy playing at 'full speed', much more than playing more slowly.

This got me thinking, maybe that's what's missing from pool: the pressure of fast play. What if 'pro 8 ball' was on a table everyone can relate to, a barbox, with a wicked short shot clock? 10 seconds from when the balls stop rolling should be plenty for 8 ball. First shooter after the break gets longer, maybe 30 seconds.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this sounds very competitive and very watchable.

I would think software for the shot clock is easy to make, and the same cam(s) could be used to stream as well. Venues could have a 'pro arena' with very little investment. Maybe small teams of 3, goegraphically located?

well, there's my thoughts. discuss.

-s
Click to expand...

It may be fun to shoot fast and pocket balls, but the object is to win the game. Shot clocks are fine, but even the world champs require more than ten seconds just to choose the correct shot in many situations. If you like shooting fast, try speed pool. If you like winning, take as much time (within reason) as you need. I like a 15 second shot clock with an extension or two, depending on the game.
And yes, when you're in dead stroke, you can shoot a bit faster, but not at the expense of proper planning...

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
Fast paced play is not what's missing from pool... Golf is a hundred times more successful and it's even slower paced.

They have already tried making it more entertaining for spectators by moving to faster games... there was the general shift from straight pool to single-rack games. Then on TV they tried 7 ball, then speed pool. Those made it to ESPN but it didn't exactly captivate anyone. But a trick shot competition (not that fast paced) will get better ratings than anything.
 
We could adopt the "consecutive clock" like they use in chess. You get a set amount of time to play the entire game. You only take as much time as you need for each shot because time you take now is time you don't have later on.
 
Thank you for your opinions. They do, however, highlight one of the main problems with discussing such things on this forum...

I think 'hardcore' players (i.e. this whole forum) are way out of touch with what casual players know, understand, or appreciate about pool.

I also continue to believe that average people in the US have no appreciation for high precision or deep strategy. Give 'em something they can follow, with little thought, is the idea. Make it exciting, full of pressure, and fast-paced.

This isn't a suggestion for everyday play for everyone, it's an idea for a watchable pro league. Yes, the average player needs more time to decide and prepare for their shots, that's what separates the pros from everyone else. And, I'm talking about 'easy' bar tables and 8 ball, the 'easiest' game to run out.

I'm not trying to be the next 'poolkillers', just brainstorming some ideas to raise pool awareness with a wider audience.

Too bad no one from that wider audience belongs to pool forums. :)

-s
 
CreeDo said:
Fast paced play is not what's missing from pool... Golf is a hundred times more successful and it's even slower paced.
Click to expand...

yeah, but golf is hard! most people think pool is easy, something they could do if they just tried. convincing them otherwise is unlikely.

jack it up on red bull, add a turbocharger, and people will change their tune to 'holy crap that was a tough run', IMO. They might even keep it on that channel for the next rack (something even I can't do with the nineball on TV these days).

-s
 
I think the problem is actually pool looks too easy when played by the pros. Think about what the casual fan watches. They like to see people screw up. Why are the courses for the US Open allowed to grow so much it's like hitting in a wheat field if you are in the rough? Because people get bored when winning scores are in the negative 20s and 30s. Watching someone run 3-4 racks on a guy, or watching 2 guys alternate break and runs is just seemingly not fair to the casual fan.
 
Additionally:

Instead of race to x, how about x ahead with a time limit, win by 2 if time limit occurs.

I propose win by 4 or 5, with an hour or 90min time limit. This could be tweaked as necessary.

Alternate break would probably be the deal, but I could see winner break as a possibility too.

-s

edit: picture being 3 racks down with 10 minutes left. p-r-e-s-s-u-r-e.
 
steev said:
I also continue to believe that average people in the US have no appreciation for high precision or deep strategy. Give 'em something they can follow, with little thought, is the idea. Make it exciting, full of pressure, and fast-paced.
Click to expand...

An indictment of the population at large if ever I heard (read) one.
 
steev said:
I also continue to believe that average people in the US have no appreciation for high precision or deep strategy. Give 'em something they can follow, with little thought, is the idea. Make it exciting, full of pressure, and fast-paced.
Click to expand...

Shiny things, blinking lights, girls in bikinis, and a randomly thrown in air-horn are always high-draw crowd pleasers.
 
MitchAlsup said:
An indictment of the population at large if ever I heard (read) one.
Click to expand...

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

I've got 150 channels, DVR, and youtube. With so much choice, I need a good reason to watch something, and I'm an avid, daily player. I can only imagine what would make my neighbors, for instance, want to watch pool.

And that's just what I'm trying to imagine. Constructive comments would be quite welcomed.

-s
 
steev said:
Thank you for your opinions. They do, however, highlight one of the main problems with discussing such things on this forum...

I think 'hardcore' players (i.e. this whole forum) are way out of touch with what casual players know, understand, or appreciate about pool.

I also continue to believe that average people in the US have no appreciation for high precision or deep strategy. Give 'em something they can follow, with little thought, is the idea. Make it exciting, full of pressure, and fast-paced.

This isn't a suggestion for everyday play for everyone, it's an idea for a watchable pro league. Yes, the average player needs more time to decide and prepare for their shots, that's what separates the pros from everyone else. And, I'm talking about 'easy' bar tables and 8 ball, the 'easiest' game to run out.

I'm not trying to be the next 'poolkillers', just brainstorming some ideas to raise pool awareness with a wider audience.

Too bad no one from that wider audience belongs to pool forums. :)

-s
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't know if we'll ever capture the television-market no matter what we do. I do think you're right about slow-play. It makes the game hard to watch. However, I think shot-clocks hurt slow AND fast players and I don't think compromising everybody's game is the answer to gaining spectators.

I think pool will always be a subculture that only fellow poolplayers truly appreciate. I know that's hard to hear but the longer I'm around pool, the more I believe it's really just us that cares about it.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steev View Post
I also continue to believe that average people in the US have no appreciation for high precision or deep strategy. Give 'em something they can follow, with little thought, is the idea. Make it exciting, full of pressure, and fast-paced.

MitchAlsup said:
An indictment of the population at large if ever I heard (read) one.
Click to expand...

Why is it an indictment? Because they don't like the same things we like?

Do you listen to music? If so, I'm sure it's Mozart, and not any of that simpleton pop, rock or country (the world began it's downhill descent when that trash was accepted as music).

To us pool is a sport and we want to keep it pure. We understand the rules and know why they are in the best interest of pool players and the game. The general public doesn't feel that way and there's absolutely no reason why they should.
 
CreeDo said:
They have already tried making it more entertaining for spectators by moving to faster games... there was the general shift from straight pool to single-rack games. Then on TV they tried 7 ball, then speed pool. Those made it to ESPN but it didn't exactly captivate anyone. But a trick shot competition (not that fast paced) will get better ratings than anything.
Click to expand...

I contend that using 8-ball, a game everyone recognizes, will overcome a lot of that.

It's not so much about playing fast, just not allowing 'slow' play. Maintaining a flow without big gaps where the player has to think, plan, and re-aim six times. If I can do it, I expect Shane, Mike D, Johnny, Daz, Alex, etc. (Earl!) can too.

And re: Donny, I'm talking about pro level here. Perhaps the ability to work patterns WITHOUT long periods of thought could be taken as a skill, instead of being seen as a restriction. I'm not saying it's a perfect idea, but I also don't think it should be discarded out of hand.

Professionals in other sports are required to perform 'on the fly' constantly. Maybe that's an aspect that should be explored.

-s
 
IMO there are only three things that might bring pool to tv on a regular bases. An online way to gamble on it. A blockbuster movie with the story line around pool, and action/challenge matches like TAR use to do. The BCA and others have been trying to clean up pool for over 60 years. How is that going? I believe it was J. Lee being interviewed by Inside Pool that said if you want to make pool big, "gambling".
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Honestly, I don't know if we'll ever capture the television-market no matter what we do. I do think you're right about slow-play. It makes the game hard to watch. However, I think shot-clocks hurt slow AND fast players and I don't think compromising everybody's game is the answer to gaining spectators.

I think pool will always be a subculture that only fellow poolplayers truly appreciate. I know that's hard to hear but the longer I'm around pool, the more I believe it's really just us that cares about it.
Click to expand...

i hate to, but I agree with you here.
The game got a shot in the arm after the Hustler and again after, The color of money. Since, it has gone down, down, down.
pool Rooms allover Texas are looking at alternatives to getting people in. Many are removing tables.
Many seem to think changing the game is the answer and about every idea has been tried. network TV turned it's back on the game in the 70's and has never looked back. ESPN has never done the game any justice at all and not willing to even try.
KT seemed to have driven a spike into many hearts as well. It would take a brave soul to try anything now!
 
well, I'd like to try to keep an open mind, and wouldn't mind seeing more 8 ball. But ultimately, good pool is dull because the better the player is, the easier it looks.

Darts always looked hard to me. Sticking a needle into that tiny target, over and over?! Damn.

Dropping that golf putt from 20 feet away? Holy shit!!!

Running that rack like butter, with the cue ball never more than 3 feet from the object ball
and no cut sharper than 40 degrees? zzzzzzzz
 
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