Where to start?

CreeDo said:
Here's how I look at it...

• You will learn to make shots just over the course of time, so don't sweat shotmaking for now. It won't come in a day but it will eventually to anyone who plays a lot.

• Cue ball position, however, is not so automatic. In order to play good pool, first you need to have all the tools in your toolbox... the ability to spin a ball off the rails, the ability to draw the ball at will, the ability to make the cue ball stop dead after a straight in shot, at any distance, etc.

Basically, with all these skills you have options. Then you can worry about which option is right for a specific situation.

Without the skills, your options shrink and you are forced to pick an option that is marginal or dead wrong, because all the others are out of reach. If the right shot is to sink the object ball then draw the cue ball six feet to the head rail... and you have never drawn six feet in your life... it does absolutely no good knowing what the right shot is (which is the focus of most 8-ball DVDs and books).

So:
• Can you draw and follow the ball the length of the table, consistently and at will?
• Can you realistically sink a cut shot with a lot of sidespin?
• Can you do stop shots at various distances?
• Cut a ball up the rail and spin it back down towards you?
• Drill a shot in with a lot of top and have it travel to the rail, and then all the way across the length of the table?

This isn't everything you need to do it, but it's a starting point. If you can't do some of these things, you should set up specific shots and practice them until you can.

I don't know your level (average is a really vague word) so if you already can do all this and you JUST need strategy, say so.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed response. The more I read, learn and practice I realise I am not average but am a beginner (I could beat my mates is all)

I cannot draw and follow a shot the length or the table and I have next to no control on cut shots (I can draw and follow a few feet)

Regarding shot making, are you just referring to my ability to a accurately and put a good stroke on the ball? About this coming in time?

Thanks again for the response.
 
"The Pro Book", by Bob Henning, is published by Bebob, Publishing and is available on a number of billiards retail sites. I recommend it HIGHLY for anyone who has already gotten a decent grasp of the fundamentals and can run a rack or two on occasion. This book will take you FAR up the food chain!!!

Welcome to AZBilliards, and good luck in your never-ending pool journey. You'll find the road exasperating, exhilarating, and always a challenge!
 
VIProfessor said:
"The Pro Book", by Bob Henning, is published by Bebob, Publishing and is available on a number of billiards retail sites. I recommend it HIGHLY for anyone who has already gotten a decent grasp of the fundamentals and can run a rack or two on occasion. This book will take you FAR up the food chain!!!

Welcome to AZBilliards, and good luck in your never-ending pool journey. You'll find the road exasperating, exhilarating, and always a challenge!
Click to expand...

Cheers, this book is definitely not for me yet then. But hopefully in the future and thank you for your welcome.
 
Ok, based on advice in this thread I am going to attempt to structure my practice sessions a bit better.

First off, the level I am at. I would love to call myself average but:

1) It is an ambiguous term
2) I am not average, after looking around here and practicing I am a beginner who can beat his mates

So what I need to do is get myself half a dozen drills that a beginner should work on to improve their game at the start. From what I have been reading most of these will probably be cue ball control drills or stroke related but it is finding what these simple drills are that is causing me problems (to much information on youtube, DVDs, websites etc

My aim is to get the 6-8 drills and put them on a 3-4 day rotation dedicating 30-40mins to two drills each day:

Mon - Drill 1 & Drill 2 - 30 mins each
Tue - Drill 3 and Drill 4 - 30 mins each
etc etc

Thoughts and help are appreciated :)

p.s. to whoever it was that said it looks like I like drills.... yeah I do strangely. Guess it comes from my golf playing days!
 
VIProfessor said:
"The Pro Book", by Bob Henning, is published by Bebob, Publishing and is available on a number of billiards retail sites. I recommend it HIGHLY for anyone who has already gotten a decent grasp of the fundamentals and can run a rack or two on occasion. This book will take you FAR up the food chain!!!

Welcome to AZBilliards, and good luck in your never-ending pool journey. You'll find the road exasperating, exhilarating, and always a challenge!
Click to expand...

You ARE ready for the Pro Book. You need to learn the 16 shots and their variations. When and if you do, your game will improve exponentially.

IMHO, the most important thing in the game is to be able to consistently deliver your shots with a straight stroke, and then to stay down and keep you head still until the shot is complete. If you can manage to do that you will be a threat wherever you go...PERIOD !

There are many drills to help you develop a straight stroke. One is to arrange all 15 balls in a straight line between the side pockets, evenly spaced. Then, with cueball in hand behind the line, shoot each ball straight in the end pocket and stop the cueball. take the cueball in hand again and shoot the next ball, again perfectly straight in the corner, stopping the cueball...Tom
 
nzjase said:
Hi all, I have just joined these forums after a week of scouring the net and watching videos.

I want to improve as an 8-ball player and I just don't know where to start. I am at best an average player and have never played competitively.

I see the general consensus is watch videos, read books, play better players etc but I am curious if you all have any better/more detailed guidance on how to structure my pool development.

I am a father of two so my time is limited but as I have a table at home (8 by 4 slate) and I work from home it helps give me some time to sneak to the shed and play a bit.

I am aiming to play 2 hours a day (minimum of 1 for sure) but I don't really just want to run racks for 2 hours every day, I could see that boring me immensely.

So my questions:

1) What should I be practising?
2) How should I structure my practice?
3) What resources (videos/books etc) should I be looking at?
4) How should I gauge my improvement (if any) when I am just playing at home?

I appreciate any help and guidance you can give. I love the game and I would love to be able to play it at a good level (what this level is I do not yet know!)

Thanks in advance
Jase
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Welcome to AZBF
 
Took the advice in here and had a bit more of a structured practice followed by a couple of drills then 10 games of Fargo.

First off I stomped my follow drill with me get the cue ball into the pocket seven times in a row on my third attempt. Much better than yesterday.

Then did a couple of drills to work on basic stun, draw and follow. Was interesting learning the path the ball took when I introduced some cut shots.

Finally I played 10 games of Fargo which I was woeful at but I scored it an now have a starting point. My score was 35, yuck, with a high of 8 and a low of 1.

Anyway I feel much more positive today after playing. Amping for another 2 hours tomorrow!

As mentioned above any drills you think I should incorporate into my practices would be welcomed.

Think tomorrow is time for some target pool.
 
tpdtom said:
You ARE ready for the Pro Book. You need to learn the 16 shots and their variations. When and if you do, your game will improve exponentially.

IMHO, the most important thing in the game is to be able to consistently deliver your shots with a straight stroke, and then to stay down and keep you head still until the shot is complete. If you can manage to do that you will be a threat wherever you go...PERIOD !

There are many drills to help you develop a straight stroke. One is to arrange all 15 balls in a straight line between the side pockets, evenly spaced. Then, with cueball in hand behind the line, shoot each ball straight in the end pocket and stop the cueball. take the cueball in hand again and shoot the next ball, again perfectly straight in the corner, stopping the cueball...Tom
Click to expand...

Rightio, from VProffessors post it sounded like it was aimed at someone who could run a rack (which I can't).

I will take a look at it, cheers Tom
 
This drill belongs in that top 6, I promise. Think it was mentioned already.

Roll 4 balls out on the table, with one of them the 8. Plan backwards from the 8 how you want to run them (hint: if you can find a stop shot leading to the 8, you're probably doing it right). Now execute the run, starting with ball in hand... and it only counts if every ball gets played in the intended pocket. If you want to get really strict, you're not allowed to get drastically out of line (i.e. you can't get on the wrong side of a ball, to the point where you must move the cue ball all over the place to get on your next shot).

If you get out of line or miss a shot, reset all the balls to the original positions, take ball in hand, and try the run again. Figure out if one specific part (like the leave from ball 2 to 3) is giving you fits, and how you can fix that. If you try 3 or 4 times and can't run it as planned, maybe you need a better plan.

Increase the number of balls if you can consistently run 4 of them.

Other drills (kinda boring):
1. Progressive draw - CB and OB on the long rail, 1 diamond apart. Try to draw exactly 1 diamond, then 2, 3, 4, etc.
2. Progressive follow - same deal but following. Probably much easier.
3. Progressive stop - start out 1 diamond away, shoot and stop the cue ball dead. Then do it from 2 diamonds distance, 3, etc. etc.

A drill-type game you can play with friends that is strictly safety and kicking practice (and is actually pretty fun):

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3556483&postcount=1
 
CreeDo said:
This drill belongs in that top 6, I promise. Think it was mentioned already.

Roll 4 balls out on the table, with one of them the 8. Plan backwards from the 8 how you want to run them (hint: if you can find a stop shot leading to the 8, you're probably doing it right). Now execute the run, starting with ball in hand... and it only counts if every ball gets played in the intended pocket. If you want to get really strict, you're not allowed to get drastically out of line (i.e. you can't get on the wrong side of a ball, to the point where you must move the cue ball all over the place to get on your next shot).

If you get out of line or miss a shot, reset all the balls to the original positions, take ball in hand, and try the run again. Figure out if one specific part (like the leave from ball 2 to 3) is giving you fits, and how you can fix that. If you try 3 or 4 times and can't run it as planned, maybe you need a better plan.

Increase the number of balls if you can consistently run 4 of them.

Other drills (kinda boring):
1. Progressive draw - CB and OB on the long rail, 1 diamond apart. Try to draw exactly 1 diamond, then 2, 3, 4, etc.
2. Progressive follow - same deal but following. Probably much easier.
3. Progressive stop - start out 1 diamond away, shoot and stop the cue ball dead. Then do it from 2 diamonds distance, 3, etc. etc.

A drill-type game you can play with friends that is strictly safety and kicking practice (and is actually pretty fun):

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3556483&postcount=1
Click to expand...

Cheers, all noted down =)
 
Before you build in a lot of bad habits, learn how to do the fundamentals. If you are practicing, you are probably reinforcing some bad habits. Learn how to find the shot line, move down on the shot, how to hold the cue, your proper eye placement, how to deliver the cue accurately and consistently to the same spot. There are practice drills and explanations for these thing on many DVDs. Learn these steps, and more, first, then get to the table. Some instructors will critique you on video which is an option. Learn to deliver the cue properly before practicing shots or strategy. JMHO
 
Deadon said:
Before you build in a lot of bad habits, learn how to do the fundamentals. If you are practicing, you are probably reinforcing some bad habits. Learn how to find the shot line, move down on the shot, how to hold the cue, your proper eye placement, how to deliver the cue accurately and consistently to the same spot. There are practice drills and explanations for these thing on many DVDs. Learn these steps, and more, first, then get to the table. Some instructors will critique you on video which is an option. Learn to deliver the cue properly before practicing shots or strategy. JMHO
Click to expand...

Thanks mate and good advice. I am on the hunt for some instructional material that will hopefully do just that :)
 
nzjase said:
Finding an instructor in NZ is hard and the only potential one I have found is in Auckland, hours away.

It might be worth the travel time, if it's not too far.

Regarding youtube, it indeed seems to be a great resource. Any suggestions on what to dig out on there? I have a number of Dr Cue and ForceFollow videos bookmarked that I am working my way through.

Just be specific with your search on Youtube. For example, "Efren 8-ball".

Re: Dr Dave, I am considering buying his DVDs or Mika's. Which would you suggest (Dr Dave seems to have a couple VEPP and VEPS)?

Both are excellent in my opionion.

I need some good practice drills also, any ideas?

Again, lots of help on Youtube. Unless you're already a world class player, always start with stroke drills.

Is it possible to move this to the instructors section (if that is where it should be?)

Also Donny what is your website?
Click to expand...

www.poolcool.zoomshare.com
Remember, my new site is under construction, so check it in a week or two

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
nzjase said:
Ok, based on advice in this thread I am going to attempt to structure my practice sessions a bit better.

First off, the level I am at. I would love to call myself average but:

1) It is an ambiguous term
2) I am not average, after looking around here and practicing I am a beginner who can beat his mates

So what I need to do is get myself half a dozen drills that a beginner should work on to improve their game at the start. From what I have been reading most of these will probably be cue ball control drills or stroke related but it is finding what these simple drills are that is causing me problems (to much information on youtube, DVDs, websites etc

My aim is to get the 6-8 drills and put them on a 3-4 day rotation dedicating 30-40mins to two drills each day:

Mon - Drill 1 & Drill 2 - 30 mins each
Tue - Drill 3 and Drill 4 - 30 mins each
etc etc

Thoughts and help are appreciated :)

p.s. to whoever it was that said it looks like I like drills.... yeah I do strangely. Guess it comes from my golf playing days!
Click to expand...

The drills that you are looking for are in "The Pro Book". There may be other sources out there, but this book is a really good one. It gives you a set of basic drills that will help you test your stroke and aim. Through these drills, you will get instant feedback as to whether you aim is correct and whether your stroke is straight. I'm with Tom on this one....go buy it.

Cheers,
Skippy
 
Deadon said:
Before you build in a lot of bad habits, learn how to do the fundamentals. If you are practicing, you are probably reinforcing some bad habits. Learn how to find the shot line, move down on the shot, how to hold the cue, your proper eye placement, how to deliver the cue accurately and consistently to the same spot. There are practice drills and explanations for these thing on many DVDs. Learn these steps, and more, first, then get to the table. Some instructors will critique you on video which is an option. Learn to deliver the cue properly before practicing shots or strategy. JMHO
Click to expand...


Wow. I had to read all the way to the 4th page before someone even mentioned the fundamentals (unless I missed it).

All the books and videos are great but I think we tend to go overboard when it comes to strategy. Now that we have video, I really don't think any of the games are that difficult when it comes to strategy. You can sit down over the weekend and watch enough top level 1-pocket action and learn most of the moves. Of course, learning how to pull them off is an entirely different thing.

Your post sort of reminded me of what happened when I started playing. I had a bunch of guys that wanted to teach me everything they could about strategy or they would show me a shot that I needed to work on. Nothing ever came up about the best way to go about making those shots from a fundamentals stand point. It wasn't until much later on that I started working on those things on my own. I could have saved years of frustration had I started out with a strict focus on my cueing.

If I were you I would certainly watch a lot of videos (including a lot of snooker) but I wouldn't bother too much with the strategy. Instead, I would pay very close attention to their cueing.
 
BasementDweller said:
Wow. I had to read all the way to the 4th page before someone even mentioned the fundamentals (unless I missed it).
Click to expand...

Not surprising. The OP stated he wanted to improve as an 8 Ball player, not simply as a pool player. That's why many of us responded about the strategies and thought processes related to that game. At least that's why I did.:grin-square:
 
grindz said:
I don't know what your level of play is, but a really good practice game
for 8 ball IMO is to throw all the balls out on the table.... if you're not
much good a banking, or at a lower level keep all the balls a foot or so
off the rails.... start with ball in hand and shoot all the balls in w/out
touching a rail with the cue ball... if you're at a higher level then do it
twice or three times. You should be able to do this if you're above a c
player. That's a good start.

td
Click to expand...

I can't remember playing a game where I didn't need or want to use a rail. What good is this drill other than for proposition bets or driving a new player insane with the difficulty?
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
Not surprising. The OP stated he wanted to improve as an 8 Ball player, not simply as a pool player. That's why many of us responded about the strategies and thought processes related to that game. At least that's why I did.:grin-square:
Click to expand...

Sorry my bad =)
 
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