In any type of gamble 9b the PUSH should always be used.
Can't stand APA 9-ball
- Thread starter americanfighter
- Start date
In any type of gamble 9b the PUSH should always be used.
I play in the APA masters every year, i also play in the BCA nationals every year, Ive made so many friends, top ranked players as well as high level amateurs.
WHAT HAVE I NOTICED????
The ones that complain are the ones that NEVER WIN
Which equals ====== Your actually not that good..... So instead of complaining about not pushing or why this guy should be this skill level or why your mama never hugged you when you were a kid.
How about you go to the Doctor, buy a heart and practice for a few hundred hours...you may start winning instead of bullshitting
WHAT HAVE I NOTICED????
The ones that complain are the ones that NEVER WIN
Which equals ====== Your actually not that good..... So instead of complaining about not pushing or why this guy should be this skill level or why your mama never hugged you when you were a kid.
How about you go to the Doctor, buy a heart and practice for a few hundred hours...you may start winning instead of bullshitting
Banks
Banned
Just responding to your thread title Only, sounds like your game is getting better and you have outgrown this style of play, its normal and I hope you keep getting better.
That's a good analogy and does make sense. However, if two players play straight up, and one wins 10 games to 8, that really doesn't tell you much about who is the better pool player, because so many of those games could have been won with a dogged 8 or 9.
I can generally beat the 7 ball ghost. When I play against my neighbors who can't consistently run 3 balls, their are night where I make 85 percent of the balls, but we are closer in games than that would suggest, because I get out of line on the 8 or 9.
I get what you are saying, and agree that I should not be that way for tournaments or high level play, but for league it really helps show who the better Player is, and makes handicapping the games much more effective.
My understanding is that the only players who get DQ'd in Vegas are those that play two levels above their handicap. That being the case, the vast majority of sandbaggers simply don't get caught because they're careful how strong they play.
As for the ones who get DQ'd in Vegas, that certainly doesn't help all of those players with integrity who got eliminated along the way by dishonest players.
In my region, there definitely is a sandbagging problem. They're just smart enough to get away with it.
Temas get a serious look if more than one player has a handicap increase during the tourney. Having a single player go up 2 doesn't automatically get you booted.
I am not saying it doesn't happen, but if it was a rampant as some of these threads would lead you to believe, they'd be eliminating 25% of the teams
I completely agree for handicapping and lower level players that APA's version of 9ball is a great tool to help get better at the game. But as you get better in pool you are going to want to learn how to play the games right.
By taking out the three foul rule, elimating the push, and making it ball count, the strategy of APA 9ball is completely different then "rest of the world" 9ball.
You can take an intentional foul and tie balls up without worrying about being 3 fouled. You can leave a ball for your opponent in hops that he will attack the nasty cluster on the table but if you opponent only needs 1 ball then you sold out the match. You can break and make 3 balls and be hooked and have no other option but to go kicking at the 1 ball just to miss it and give your opponent ball in hand on what could be his final ball. You get punished for making a successful break.
I dont know, I can argue this all day. I shot in the apa for 10 years. It has its perks and those perks only seem to occur if you are skill level 6 or lower. The higher you get, the worse it is, the less you play, the harder it is to find a team.
Plus, its mainly barbox... and that sucks.
Sorry but we're not all 9's and we don't all have Masters divisions in our area. I was only saying that's the one rule that bugs me isn't available.
I say, that's what timeouts are for. Perfect time to call one, IMO.
I think jb's reasoning is off base anyway. The APA does make rules that protect and aid beginners. But the main reason for no push out is probably simple: They want to avoid confusion and rules arguments.
They don't want people crying that the other guy fouled when really he pushed, or that he forgot to call the push so it's a foul, or... what if he pockets a ball, what if he pockets the 9, what if he pockets the lowest numbered ball but called push, what if he tried to push on the 2nd inning, what if he brushed a ball while pushing, what if he's pushing to pad the innings and sandbag, how do I mark a push on the scoresheet, does it count as an inning if it gets passed back? ...etc. etc.
So to simplify things, they just nuked it. No more confusion.
But yeah, if the concern is... "they don't want higher level players to have an unfair tactical advantage on the lesser player"... trust me, forcing the lesser player to try a kick hurts him even more.
I think the 9-ball handicapping a good one.
It gives a low rank a fighting chance to beat a much stronger player.
Because if you are a 9 and you go up on a 2 you have to bring your best game to the table and run racks back to back.
It makes you have to work harder to better your game.
75 ball to their 15 is strong for most league players, not all but most.
If you are not on your game you will get smoked and to much safety play can hurt you more than help with this system.
I think the APA is geared more for the average player that wants to go out play some pool and have a little fun and cut up with old friends and make new friends.
You get out of it what you put in to it and if you are negative about it all you will get out is negative.
Just my 2 cents.
It gives a low rank a fighting chance to beat a much stronger player.
Because if you are a 9 and you go up on a 2 you have to bring your best game to the table and run racks back to back.
It makes you have to work harder to better your game.
75 ball to their 15 is strong for most league players, not all but most.
If you are not on your game you will get smoked and to much safety play can hurt you more than help with this system.
I think the APA is geared more for the average player that wants to go out play some pool and have a little fun and cut up with old friends and make new friends.
You get out of it what you put in to it and if you are negative about it all you will get out is negative.
Just my 2 cents.
Have you ever seen 2 champions play on a bar box????
Pls dont think of the regular joe skill level 9, im talking about guys that are at a high level, short stops even OR can hang with pros on the BOX.
No shot at the ONE?? Push into a Jump shot position, OR Push into a KICK safety position OR Push into a 2 way Shot or Bank position.......
Put those factors in..... the APA knows whats up, there not as dumb as many people think they are.
DID you know when you go to Nationals in the SIngles event that its NOT A BLIND DRAW, ITS SEATED
WHY??? think about it... it gives a chance for a lower level 9 to win
Come down to Caimbridge MD on Labor Day weekend and watch the likes of Brandon Shuff and other players of his caliber play on the box.
The APA system encourages players to try and run out rather than ride the 9. For the beginner this is good as it teaches pattern recognition, cue ball control and shot making. For the skilled player it makes them play a tight game to prevent the weak opponent from pocketing balls. Unless you're running racks pure offense won't get it done.
The push rule not being in the APA because of it being a higher level player move can be easily counteracted and implemented.
Skill levels 1-4 get a free time out for a push shot.
There, I fixed it.
Skill levels 1-4 get a free time out for a push shot.
There, I fixed it.
I see your points except for the whole "they will grasp the concept eventually" SL1-2 will more then likely never grasp the concept... thats why I said, give them a free time out for pushes which is basically what you said in your earlier points.
what winning 10 to 8 games shows is who the better 9-ball player is on that day. So what if someone dogged the 8 or 9 ball. Dogging the 8 or 9 ball is nothing but an excuse for losing. You lost because you either didnt have the nerves to make the shot, didnt play position well enough, and was using the wrong strategy.
A good player will beat a lucky player more times than not.
The better player is the one with the highest number in the win column at the end of the day nothing else matters.
I can pretty consistently beat higher ranked skill level players when playing 9ball but I can't seem to get into this rotation version of 9ball.
That's great but that's like one out of 500 players in the APA. They make rules based on the lower 99% who play in their league, not the top 1%.