Quote "pool is a game that people want to play, not watch"
- Thread starter DTL
- Start date
I couldn't agree with you more, however, I love to watch pool regardless of the personalities involved. But that's because I simply love pool.
The problem you have these days is there is an incredibly fine line between charisma, "a character", etc. and obnoxious, rude and over the top. Look at Tiger Woods as an example. When he's in the hunt on Sunday, everybody loves the fist pumping and excitement. Let him hit a bad shot on Thursday though and slam down a club or shout a curse word and the media is roasting him like he was a pedophile. I think what you're saying is that people like seeing the player that shows their passion and emotion or can be witty and funny while in the heat of competition, such as Lee Trevino could. Problem is, people that have that level of passion and emotion occasionally boil over. Then the media wants to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
The problem you have these days is there is an incredibly fine line between charisma, "a character", etc. and obnoxious, rude and over the top. Look at Tiger Woods as an example. When he's in the hunt on Sunday, everybody loves the fist pumping and excitement. Let him hit a bad shot on Thursday though and slam down a club or shout a curse word and the media is roasting him like he was a pedophile. I think what you're saying is that people like seeing the player that shows their passion and emotion or can be witty and funny while in the heat of competition, such as Lee Trevino could. Problem is, people that have that level of passion and emotion occasionally boil over. Then the media wants to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Theres no one left!
Theres nobody left for the non-player to watch.., Earl, please! He aint worth watching anymore, not for the non-player. I LOVE the game, I play, gamble, back action, collect cues you name it I do it, but thats only cool for the pool lovers, not the public.
Non of the top pro's are worth the publics time and attention, not in the USA. Even the few that are good guys are not made for TV types..., Archer, SVB..., no way.
I mean if ESPN wont cover it, they would rather show darts, poker, dirt track racing, fishing and they have unlimited band width, how can get better?
Its not a game for this countrys sports fans anymore, sad, but ture.
Theres nobody left for the non-player to watch.., Earl, please! He aint worth watching anymore, not for the non-player. I LOVE the game, I play, gamble, back action, collect cues you name it I do it, but thats only cool for the pool lovers, not the public.
Non of the top pro's are worth the publics time and attention, not in the USA. Even the few that are good guys are not made for TV types..., Archer, SVB..., no way.
I mean if ESPN wont cover it, they would rather show darts, poker, dirt track racing, fishing and they have unlimited band width, how can get better?
Its not a game for this countrys sports fans anymore, sad, but ture.
Play or watch?
Beginners want to play, players want to play AND watch. It's as simple as that. Americans need excitement and threats of violence, at least. Just run through the channels any evening. Violence on cop shows. Violence in sports. Violence in the news. Even violence on the Animal Channel!
We've been trained to be bored by people who are quiet, composed and polite. We liked calling pool a "gentleman's game", yet we were titillated and oddly thrilled when Eddie got his thumbs broken. I don't want to see Earl, Rodney or Deschaine get into a fight on the screen, but some do...like racing fans waiting for the next horrible crash.
Regarding ESPN, it's clear that there are no ESPN execs who play pool, or it would be on more. Those execs play golf and tennis, and bet on football, baseball and boxing. They love to see a good brawl; it's what viewers want, they say.
The live streaming that's being done is not catching on because the coverage runs from very good to very crude. I love watching pool, but I get frustrated watching a match where you don't know who's playing, the score or the brackets, and the commentators, if they speak at all, talk about anything and everything but the match before their eyes.
Proof that pool fans DO love to watch is the thousands of Youtube pool matches that are viewed by incredible numbers of people. Pool could do very well on tv, if the coverage, scheduling and commentating were at a professional level.
Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Beginners want to play, players want to play AND watch. It's as simple as that. Americans need excitement and threats of violence, at least. Just run through the channels any evening. Violence on cop shows. Violence in sports. Violence in the news. Even violence on the Animal Channel!
We've been trained to be bored by people who are quiet, composed and polite. We liked calling pool a "gentleman's game", yet we were titillated and oddly thrilled when Eddie got his thumbs broken. I don't want to see Earl, Rodney or Deschaine get into a fight on the screen, but some do...like racing fans waiting for the next horrible crash.
Regarding ESPN, it's clear that there are no ESPN execs who play pool, or it would be on more. Those execs play golf and tennis, and bet on football, baseball and boxing. They love to see a good brawl; it's what viewers want, they say.
The live streaming that's being done is not catching on because the coverage runs from very good to very crude. I love watching pool, but I get frustrated watching a match where you don't know who's playing, the score or the brackets, and the commentators, if they speak at all, talk about anything and everything but the match before their eyes.
Proof that pool fans DO love to watch is the thousands of Youtube pool matches that are viewed by incredible numbers of people. Pool could do very well on tv, if the coverage, scheduling and commentating were at a professional level.
Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Not as many want to play either, and I think a lot has to do with the times in which we live. People are less inclined to dedicate themselves to the practice and play it takes to excell at pool.
Self-gratification comes at a cheaper price these days, as well. More, and more individuals prefer to live vicariously through those they see on television, rather than spending the time to develope their own talent.
Que sera, sera. :smile:
Self-gratification comes at a cheaper price these days, as well. More, and more individuals prefer to live vicariously through those they see on television, rather than spending the time to develope their own talent.
Que sera, sera. :smile:
I like to play pool.
I can watch it, if recorded and I be bored.
Live? Nooo...Mr. Peter no home.
I can watch it, if recorded and I be bored.
Live? Nooo...Mr. Peter no home.
Completely agree.
There are times when non-live streamming is simply better--just like when I record the Billiards on ESPN2 to watch at my convienence.
Watching pool no matter who is playing is boring as hell to just about everyone. Most of the people who post here do not even WATCH pool on on a regular basis I would bet. I don't. Only thing I watch is what I produce or if a friend is playing a final or something.
There is so much out there to watch on YouTube the only interest live streams generate is simply because its live. You can pick just about any two players and go find a match on YouTube with them playing in a tournament. All this means its very hard to generate revenue off of new content which means its harder to pay for advances in the quality of production.
The industry doesnt have the means to support anything. The fan base is static at best and dwindling at worst. The part of the world that pool is growing in does not speak our language so that doesnt help anything here at all. The few players who draw money have to spend half their time in an airplane to make a living criss crossing the globe for $20-$40K for first "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS".
I have been streaming for five years and have seen it grow exponentially in the beginning to reach what seems now to be a plateau. Forget TV. Only way that happens is if someone pays for everything and gives it away to a channel ala the WBPA and ESPN.
IMO watching pro pool will remain a small niche thing in this country forever. It is what it is. That doesnt make it bad or not fun to watch for people who enjoy it it just will never reach mainstream viewers as a means of entertainment.
There is so much out there to watch on YouTube the only interest live streams generate is simply because its live. You can pick just about any two players and go find a match on YouTube with them playing in a tournament. All this means its very hard to generate revenue off of new content which means its harder to pay for advances in the quality of production.
The industry doesnt have the means to support anything. The fan base is static at best and dwindling at worst. The part of the world that pool is growing in does not speak our language so that doesnt help anything here at all. The few players who draw money have to spend half their time in an airplane to make a living criss crossing the globe for $20-$40K for first "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS".
I have been streaming for five years and have seen it grow exponentially in the beginning to reach what seems now to be a plateau. Forget TV. Only way that happens is if someone pays for everything and gives it away to a channel ala the WBPA and ESPN.
IMO watching pro pool will remain a small niche thing in this country forever. It is what it is. That doesnt make it bad or not fun to watch for people who enjoy it it just will never reach mainstream viewers as a means of entertainment.
TV pool boring for everyone?
I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that tv pool is boring for "just about everyone". Did you take a poll?
I heard that ESPN has received thousands of complaints about the lack of coverage and poor coverage of pool.
For myself, and most of my pool playing friends, we love watching pool on tv if it's decent coverage. Are we a unique demographic?
IMO the problem isn't that folks don't want to watch tv pool, the problem is promotion of the game is sorely lacking with tv execs, and the owners of billiard establishments, most of which don't seem to care for the game...
Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that tv pool is boring for "just about everyone". Did you take a poll?
I heard that ESPN has received thousands of complaints about the lack of coverage and poor coverage of pool.
For myself, and most of my pool playing friends, we love watching pool on tv if it's decent coverage. Are we a unique demographic?
IMO the problem isn't that folks don't want to watch tv pool, the problem is promotion of the game is sorely lacking with tv execs, and the owners of billiard establishments, most of which don't seem to care for the game...
Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
The condition of men's pro pool is so poor television won't take a look. In the 90's there was alot of women's pro pool on the tube. Lousy pool but a good show. Men's pool isn't a good show unless you're a player. Champion chess players don't get much air time either. However, they still succeed financially without tv. Can pool thrive without tv?
you answerd the question by your statement thousands,, any other sport would be millions,, fact is there is so many more entertaining sports to watch that bring big sponser money ,,espn already knows this thats why thier is rarely if ever live pool on TV
1
I don't think he jumped to any conclusions the evidence is there. Not just TV you can't get people to pay a dime to watch a tournament. I have put on enough tournaments to know they don't draw flies. In fact when you do one in a pool room you will have people asking when it will be over so they can play and this is with world champion players in the room. The jury came in on this a long time ago, pool has a small subcultural following and that is about it. The general public will not watch beyond a few minutes to see a few novelty trick shots but have no interest in see the game played.
Not a fair comparison.
Baseball, football and basketball have been televised for over half a century. The sports have grown because of promotion. In the 1950s, bowling was the rage on tv, and the sport boomed. When tv became monopolized by the "big" sports, bowling declined dramatically. There was no pool at all on tv until the 1980s, and then very little. Beginning in the mid-'90s, there was lots of pool on tv. When something becomes popular on basic cable, it moves to pay tv, which is largely what happened to pool. You can still find it on pay channels, though less all the time.
I think you're looking at things backward when you say people don't want to see pool on tv. Americans watch what they are allowed to watch and encouraged to watch by advertisers. It's a bit like food. We eat what we're told to eat by the tv screen. The popularity of the big sports was largely created by big $ promotion. I'm not convinced that pool couldn't be similar if really promoted. But the status quo is a hard thing to challenge. The sponsors are raking in the bucks sponsoring the big 3, so they have no need to invest in anything "new". Kind of like the oil industry. They make billions (trillions?) selling oil and petro-chemicals, so they have no need to invest in any sustainable for of energy.
One thing you can't disagree with: pool is one of the most popular participation sports on Earth. It has great potential...
Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Baseball, football and basketball have been televised for over half a century. The sports have grown because of promotion. In the 1950s, bowling was the rage on tv, and the sport boomed. When tv became monopolized by the "big" sports, bowling declined dramatically. There was no pool at all on tv until the 1980s, and then very little. Beginning in the mid-'90s, there was lots of pool on tv. When something becomes popular on basic cable, it moves to pay tv, which is largely what happened to pool. You can still find it on pay channels, though less all the time.
I think you're looking at things backward when you say people don't want to see pool on tv. Americans watch what they are allowed to watch and encouraged to watch by advertisers. It's a bit like food. We eat what we're told to eat by the tv screen. The popularity of the big sports was largely created by big $ promotion. I'm not convinced that pool couldn't be similar if really promoted. But the status quo is a hard thing to challenge. The sponsors are raking in the bucks sponsoring the big 3, so they have no need to invest in anything "new". Kind of like the oil industry. They make billions (trillions?) selling oil and petro-chemicals, so they have no need to invest in any sustainable for of energy.
One thing you can't disagree with: pool is one of the most popular participation sports on Earth. It has great potential...
Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
There are probably no national-level polls about pool watching. There's no way to make a post that's backed with rational science or hard statistics.
Any post about this topic is going to be based on an "impression".
But if there's one guy here whose 'impression' is worth listening to, it's probably Justin's. Getting people to watch pool is his life and his livelihood. He spends more time thinking about it than all the other dudes in this thread put together.
My 'impression' is the exact same, not that it means anything... my buddies are very much into pool and we shoot 3-4 nights a week. But getting them to WATCH pool is like pulling teeth. Halfway through they say "hey, let's go shoot".
Agree, but...
While there are no national polls, I suspect we can get a pretty good "impression" from the hundreds of thousands of views of pool action on Youtube...
I think your friends (and mine) tend to ignore pool on tv now, because of the poor coverage, lack of accurate scheduling and repeats of partial matches with no reference to date of the event...
once again, gets back to proper promotion and quality of coverage.
Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
While there are no national polls, I suspect we can get a pretty good "impression" from the hundreds of thousands of views of pool action on Youtube...
I think your friends (and mine) tend to ignore pool on tv now, because of the poor coverage, lack of accurate scheduling and repeats of partial matches with no reference to date of the event...
once again, gets back to proper promotion and quality of coverage.
Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
You make some great points, but pool was definitely on TV before the '80s. "Ten-Twenty" goes back as far as '59.
EDIT -- My bad, I had the name of the show wrong.
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