Am I being disrespectful to my *opponent?
Because I ALWAYS rake the balls after i miss a ball.
*the ghost
Because I ALWAYS rake the balls after i miss a ball.
*the ghost
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Making your opponents shoot every shot or concede out of respect?
- Thread starter Shermanscs
- Start date
So True
I was playing in a tournament(a weekend variety type with 50+ players) and one of the best players there plays a VERY FAST pace and he missed the 8 ball (playing 8 ball) and then pulled all the balls down and conceded the game. The guy he was playing didn't play as well as him and played much slower which could be used in his favor to help beat a better player.
I was playing in a tournament(a weekend variety type with 50+ players) and one of the best players there plays a VERY FAST pace and he missed the 8 ball (playing 8 ball) and then pulled all the balls down and conceded the game. The guy he was playing didn't play as well as him and played much slower which could be used in his favor to help beat a better player.
I like concessions. They speed up the game and can also be used in a strategic way. You concede several shots in a row. Even concede a shot that is not a straight up gimme. Then when the other player is expecting it you make them shoot it. They may dog it because they were expecting you to give it to them.
Also, conceding certain shots early in a match may keep the other player from getting in stroke.
Also, conceding certain shots early in a match may keep the other player from getting in stroke.
Nineball is not like a nuclear bomb where close counts or horseshoes.
The ONLY thing that matters is that the nineball gets made.
I dont care if they run out all 8 balls, the only one that counts is the last ball, and I never give that shot away.
I have seen waaaay to many people miss easy shots like that, and when the match involved money or a tournament, I do not give up shots for free, they have got to earn them.....
There is no disrespect meant at all.....
I honestly do not like it when people give me shots, although sometimes I will take them.
I believe it's more of a shark move or a move to make sure I do not get comfortable running the balls out, so they give a shot to me...
So, if someone gives me a shot, I clarify that they have given me the game, then I say, ok, I'm going to pocket the ball anyway since I can't lose, because I want to stay focused and in stroke.
The ONLY thing that matters is that the nineball gets made.
I dont care if they run out all 8 balls, the only one that counts is the last ball, and I never give that shot away.
I have seen waaaay to many people miss easy shots like that, and when the match involved money or a tournament, I do not give up shots for free, they have got to earn them.....
There is no disrespect meant at all.....
I honestly do not like it when people give me shots, although sometimes I will take them.
I believe it's more of a shark move or a move to make sure I do not get comfortable running the balls out, so they give a shot to me...
So, if someone gives me a shot, I clarify that they have given me the game, then I say, ok, I'm going to pocket the ball anyway since I can't lose, because I want to stay focused and in stroke.
Incorrect, the biggest team event in the golfing world, the Ryder Cup, is a match play event where holes are regularly conceded and putts regularly "given" without being holed. It is actually a useful strategy to employ.
Early on in a golf match you start giving your opponent all his putts within 3 foot. Then when he has a 3 footer on the back 9 (generally a more important time in the match) he will assume it will be given but you say nothing. He hasn't putted anything within 3 foot all day plus you have messed with his mind by making him putt it out. I have seen this work on a number of occasions.
Anyway I digress, my thought in pool is you should make them pot the lot.
Concessions in tourney play vs after hours play are two completely different things. I agree that in tourney play you should not concede.
But I don't feel this way in gambling matches. I've heard the argument that "too many crazy things may happen so I WILL NEVER concede a nine ball, even if it's hanging in the jaws".
If this is your mindset then it seems that you are wishing that your opponent dogs a real easy shot or makes a fluke miscue. As your opponent, this mindset makes me think you are weak, fearful and nitty.
And I don't those are the signals you want to be sending to your opponent in a game that's 90% mental and 100% about confidence.
Just my opinion.
But I don't feel this way in gambling matches. I've heard the argument that "too many crazy things may happen so I WILL NEVER concede a nine ball, even if it's hanging in the jaws".
If this is your mindset then it seems that you are wishing that your opponent dogs a real easy shot or makes a fluke miscue. As your opponent, this mindset makes me think you are weak, fearful and nitty.
And I don't those are the signals you want to be sending to your opponent in a game that's 90% mental and 100% about confidence.
Just my opinion.
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I don't think anything positive can come out of this; this kind of thinking is usually by people who think they are smarter than everyone else and no one can figure out what they are doing because they are so clever. Well I have some bad news for you Hungarian; you're not smarter than everybody else and people know what you are doing and on more than 1 occasion your opponent has recognized what you did (or more likely tried to do) and has thought of you as a poor sportsman and has said that to others as well.
And if you don't think that some of those people that you did (or tried this on) won't recognize it and try to "shark you back" the next time you play you are fooling yourself. People aren't as dumb and naive as you think they are especially not pool players. If you do this kind of thing you have a local reputation of being an A$$___e weather you know it or not. People that think this way (thinking people don't recognize what they are doing) are usually too dense to realize that they have a bad reputation as a sportsman. So you have a choice you can keep on thinking that you're really clever or you can stop this shark/counter shark stuff and just play pool straight up.
You would always be required to pocket the nine if playing me, I would not try to shark you, I would let you shark yourself.
And from your what I can tell about you from your mind set, I would probably implement the stay in your seat and no talking rule also.........
The nineball is the only ball that counts, and in a money match, I would make sure you earn it by shooting the money ball and making it.
Of course I want my opponent to dog easy shots, and hard shots. I'm being honest, I do not want them to win. I do not wish someone good luck at the beginning of a match either, because I'm not a hypocrite. I do not want them to have any luck at all, I want them to lose. And I am not going to patronize them. I will usually not say anything, and if they wish me good luck, I will tell them I do not believe in luck.
To be real honest, I would like to say at the beginning of that match that "I am going to beat you!" But I refrain... I do have some manners.
But thats my attitude for sure, and I also have in my mind set that I will let them make mistakes.
I play poker lots, and many times, the money made is when someone else makes a mistake and you capitalize on it....
It's no different in pool, why take away the chance for them to miss a ball? It could be the difference between winning or losing a game or set. It's just smart pool simple as that.
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Yes, as mentioned, this is done at pool as well. It is considered a shark -- a way to distract your opponent and get him to play less well. It is one reason for the "no concessions" rule in some tournaments.
You guys are taking this way too personal and way too serious. If you don't believe in concessions don't do it. But don't call me a shark artist. I can concede any shot I want to in a gambling match. It's none of your business. It's been part of the game for a long time before I ever played and will continue as long as people gamble at pool.
It's a very mild mind game but it's not a shark move.
Remember, when you are gambling you are trying to beat your opponent out of his money. You are not trying to win a trophy.
But if you are only gambling cheap with your buddies for who buys dinner or who pays the time well then who cares if you concede a few shots.
On the other hand, if I'm betting $500 my only goal is to transfer my opponents money into my pocket. To win I must play better then my opponent and I must maintain my confidence and mental edge. If conceding a few strategic balls makes me feel clever and confident I'm going to do it.
This is not a moral issue unless you consider gambling a moral issue..
It's a very mild mind game but it's not a shark move.
Remember, when you are gambling you are trying to beat your opponent out of his money. You are not trying to win a trophy.
But if you are only gambling cheap with your buddies for who buys dinner or who pays the time well then who cares if you concede a few shots.
On the other hand, if I'm betting $500 my only goal is to transfer my opponents money into my pocket. To win I must play better then my opponent and I must maintain my confidence and mental edge. If conceding a few strategic balls makes me feel clever and confident I'm going to do it.
This is not a moral issue unless you consider gambling a moral issue..
I remember reading about a match between Annigoni and Lebron. Tony was playing really good and had Mike down 3-0 in a race to 9. Tony hit the next break hard, parked the rock in the middle of the table and made 3 balls with great shape to get out. Mike got up from his chair and raked the remaining 6 balls (because he could see Tony was in dead stroke) and racked up for game 5. There was a penalty for conceding one ball let only 6 but Tony didnt call him on it. Well Tony ran out of steam after that and lost the match 9-6. He later said that it was a good move on his part to do what he did. I screwed up my rhythm and that's what beat me.
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Kiamco also missed a relatively easy 10 ball earlier in the match. Nothing wrong with making the guy shoot the shot.
Well , obviously there can be strategy and whatever involved and of course there are the winning ugly is still winning people.
But I honestly think that when some one concedes the game ball its because they know they've lost , and should have lost at that point. Yea winning is winning and we all want to do that but as a competitor , a real deep in your soul competitor , you want to win because you out played the other guy. I want to know I outplayed them and I want them to know they got beat. You don't feel good about winning when you got smoked during the race but the guy tripped on his shoe lace at the finish line.
But I honestly think that when some one concedes the game ball its because they know they've lost , and should have lost at that point. Yea winning is winning and we all want to do that but as a competitor , a real deep in your soul competitor , you want to win because you out played the other guy. I want to know I outplayed them and I want them to know they got beat. You don't feel good about winning when you got smoked during the race but the guy tripped on his shoe lace at the finish line.
No such thing as way too serious.
Ok I won't but:
You don't consider this a shark? If not what is your definition of a shark? You are trying to distract and throw your opponent off their game while it is not your inning; WTF else does a shark mean?
And there can be many reasons for a concession I do it myself on occasion especially with groups of friends playing king of the hill; but I have never and will never use it as a tactic to win a game later in a match by "psyching" them, because that's a shark and I don't do that.
There are no "mild mind games", "soft sharks" or the like there is sharking or not it is a question of intent; your intent is to try to effect the outcome of a match by your actions when it is your opponents inning, and that's sharking weather you know it or not.
There are lots of people that feel this way; victory over excellence & good sportsmanship, I pursue excellence & good sportsmanship to lead me to victory; that way if I loose I don't feel like a scumbag.
Unfortunately there are too many players like you; unfortunately some of them are really great players, and most unfortunately it is one of the reasons pool has the reputation that it does; guys like this have no idea how much they hurt the sport and at the same time hurt themselves. A lot of these guys could easily make a living playing pool if pool didn't have such a seedy reputation, they shoot themselves and the next generation of player right in the foot every day and don't even know it.
Then do that; out shoot him, if your playing little mind games he is well aware of it; the same as you are when it's attempted on you, don't kid yourself. Instead of this pettiness that hurts us all why not just play straight up pool?
Hopeless
I play for money, the only time I try to affect the outcome of a match is when I am behind that CB; I never try to affect the outcome of a game or match from my chair. IMHO those who do are sharking, that IMHO is poor sportsmanship and damaging to the sport we all love so dearly, and that's why these statements of yours make me uncomfortable.
It makes me feel uncomfortable that in 3 months you have accumulated 450 blabbering posts.
Really is that the best you can answer post #450? Really? My goodness how childish are you? Resorting to digs not relevant to the discussion? Really?
I don't consider this sharking at all and think its purly strategic.If your opponent had a issue with it and asked
you to stop and you didn't,thats a different story but if he has no issue
with it,its clearly no shark.
I know in tournaments I've been losing in a match and have comeback
and tied it up.The moment I tie the set ,he wants to take his break and
have a smoke which is clearly aloud and not against the rules but in my head I know this happens alot and is clearly a move to stop my momentum.
I honestly feel you are obsessed with my opinion. Key word is it's my opinion. That's the point of a forum. You are getting too personal. Back the f up off me before I play you and concede the nine ball every time.
Hungarian said:
I do consider this a shark. I will concede games if my oppponent starts conceding to me first. I feel somewhat obligated to do so, even though I don't like doing it.
As the conceder, I don't like having to decide whether this particular shot is easy enough to concede or worth making him shoot. And as the shooter, I really don't like running to the money ball and wondering if I'll get a gift or not. All that wasted extra mental energy is what makes this a shark move.