John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

[ENGLISH!]

I have not, but I personally don't think equipment choice is as important as many people think, as long as the tip is good and you give yourself time to adjust for the amount of squirt the shaft produces. The player's technique, level of ability, and understanding is much more important than the cue. I personally prefer a low-squirt cue for the advantages it offers; although, many people will prefer (and maybe do better with) a non-LD shaft (because of the disadvantages associated with LD shafts).

Regards,
Dave

Thanks for the reply. I'm less than one(1) year into LD after 46 years of playing with english. I'm still trying to make a definitive decision. I'm leaning toward staying with LD as I realize the percentages of advantages vs dis-advantages. I have a McD i2 & an OB Classic but feel I would prefer the conical taper & smaller tip of the i3, Z2, or Classic pro.

Again, thanks for the reply,
Rick

PS I agree with you on the tip being SO important. A crooked stick with a good tip can still be a very playable stick.

 

[dr_dave]

I'm just guessing that most people would have better success with a non-LD shaft.

I agree, because a "slight amount" of inside English won't create much squirt. Even with a non-LD shaft, more than a "slight amount" might be required to create enough squirt to split the pocket. Results will also vary with shot speed, ball distances, conditions, and pocket size and "tightness."

For the moment though, I am fixated on an understanding that for the shot he was originally talking about, he is aiming the object ball at the side of the pocket and utilizes a miniscule amount of inside (but with little spin effect) which if he accidentally hits center ball, he will pocket the object ball close to that side of the pocket. If he hits with the miniscule amount of inside on the cue ball, the object ball will split the pocket. If he accidentally hits with a bit more of a touch of inside, the object ball will still hit the outer facing of the pocket. I guess this particular shot is easier to picture in my mind's eye than it is to describe in words, but I think CJ is NOT aiming the object ball at the center of the pocket. It all depends upon the location of the cue ball and object ball.

Sounds like a good description to me. Success will obviously depend on pocket size and how "tight" they play.

I think one point PJ was trying to make earlier is that one might have similar success with a center-pocket and center-ball aim. With a slight amount of outside Engish, the ball will still go in on one side of the pocket; and with a slight amount of inside English, the ball will still go in on the other side. And if you are good or fortunate enough to hit the CB in the center, and your aim is also good (and if you have compensated for CIT as necessary for the particular shot), the ball will go into the heart of the pocket, where you are aiming.

Alternatively, one can aim to pocket the ball center-pocket with a slight amount of inside English (compensating for squirt, swerve, and throw as necessary for the particular shot, based on experience and understanding of the effects). Then if slightly less than a slight amount of English is applied, the ball will still go in the pocket (in one side); and if slightly more than a slight amount is used, the ball will still go in the pocket (in the other side).

I'm sure there are at least several more possible variations on this theme.

Regards,
Dave

 

[peteypooldude]

What humors me about PJ is the fact he constantly debates and frustrates people. He gets banned numerous times , kicked and punched and STILL comes up arguing. Got to give him props for consistency lol

 

[Patrick Johnson]

What humors me about PJ is the fact he constantly debates and frustrates people.

Have you noticed it's always the same small handful of people? Curious, huh?

He gets banned numerous times , kicked and punched and STILL comes up arguing.

Kicked and punched? You mean by the Systems Defense League? I thought I was getting patted on the back for my helpful clarifying observations...

A serious point: making an assertion and supporting it is often called "making an argument", but it isn't arguing in the combative sense, even when both sides are insistent - so long as nobody chooses to get offended.

pj
chgo

 

[Neil]

I'm a 2nd Degee Black Belt that specializes in a Two Inch Punch to break boards up to 5 inches thick....

CJ, I want to thank you for posting this earlier today. Sometimes it is amazing how the most mundane thing said can have such a profound impact on someones life.

Believe it or not, at least partially because of your statement, and others statements about it, I am not sitting in jail right now for felonious assault!

I was sitting here reading the forums and saw someone go into the back yard next door. (it's an empty house) I figured he might be going to take a leak or something because he looked like he might be homeless. After a little while, when he didn't come back, I went and checked on him. Just in time to grab his ankles as he was going through the window!

He was there to steal the piping in the house. He dove out the window and tried to come at me, which I blocked and took him down. That's when your statement came into play... my martial arts training consists soley of knowing how to disable and really hurt someone real quick. When I had him down, due to my health reasons, I knew a prolonged struggle was out of the question. So, I knew that if I wanted to keep him there until the cops arrived, I would have to disable him, and quickly, or let him go.

That's where thinking about your post, and then thinking about my past, and what I would have to do to him to detain him, made me think that that wasn't something I wanted to do. I kept feeling that I would be charged with something. After talking to the cops, I found out I would have been charged with felonious assault because it was not my house.

So, the guy got away on his bicycle, and I'm free to tell the story. Hate to think what might have happened if I hadn't been thinking about fighting and board breaking a little before that and just acted on instinct instead!

Now that the thread is totally derailed, what thickness of boards would you equate 1" of plywood to??

 

[cookie man]

I haven't made any trouble here. I've just politely expressed my views about what's being discussed.

Do you think threads should be staked out for only those with one viewpoint? That's what starts trouble.

Discussion is good. That's why we have discussion forums.

pj
chgo

No but we already understand that you will never try anything being discussed here at the table. You are holding up our progress for those of us that would like to learn more from CJ. I get that you don't think his technique is useful or valuable, i respect your opinion. However I would like to learn more from CJ. I also respect his opinion. Instead of constantly forceing your viewpoint over and over let us that are willing to give it a shot learn more.

 

[CJ Wiley]

What is a "Pool Syringe".....and what does it "shoot"

I have not, but I personally don't think equipment choice is as important as many people think, as long as the tip is good and you give yourself time to adjust for the amount of squirt the shaft produces. The player's technique, level of ability, and understanding is much more important than the cue. I personally prefer a low-squirt cue for the advantages it offers; although, many people will prefer (and maybe do better with) a non-LD shaft (because of the disadvantages associated with LD shafts).

Regards,
Dave

I agree with this Dave...I refer to a cue as a "delivery system for a tip" (like a "Pool Syringe" delivering a pure shot:wink ...because it's the tip that you actually play with and it's vitally important to make SURE it's right....and understanding the exact place the tip is making contact with the cue ball has helped me out a lot....I'm sure the "technical guys" already know this, and I was told by Buddy Hall.

 

[The Renfro]

I agree, because a "slight amount" of inside English won't create much squirt. Even with a non-LD shaft, more than a "slight amount" might be required to create enough squirt to split the pocket. Results will also vary with shot speed, ball distances, conditions, and pocket size and "tightness."

Sounds like a good description to me. Success will obviously depend on pocket size and how "tight" they play.

I think one point PJ was trying to make earlier is that one might have similar success with a center-pocket and center-ball aim. With a slight amount of outside Engish, the ball will still go in on one side of the pocket; and with a slight amount of inside English, the ball will still go in on the other side. And if you are good or fortunate enough to hit the CB in the center, and your aim is also good (and if you have compensated for CIT as necessary for the particular shot), the ball will go into the heart of the pocket, where you are aiming.

Alternatively, one can aim to pocket the ball center-pocket with a slight amount of inside English (compensating for squirt, swerve, and throw as necessary for the particular shot, based on experience and understanding of the effects). Then if slightly less than a slight amount of English is applied, the ball will still go in the pocket (in one side); and if slightly more than a slight amount is used, the ball will still go in the pocket (in the other side).

I'm sure there are at least several more possible variations on this theme.

Regards,
Dave

But the idea is to make the biggest target possible so why would you choose to aim at the center with either?? You would be shooting at a pocket effectively half the size of the one CJ is shooting at......

Add to that that with the inside technique you are aiming at more of the object ball which is usually easier to do visually unless maybe you end up on a halfball aim without the technique...

I agree that your techniques are valid I am just thinking the inside technique might be "best" practice but then again it may come down to the different persons... I choose inside more often than any other english but that is because that is "my" comfort food so to speak.....

 

[peteypooldude]

Have you noticed it's always the same small handful of people? Curious, huh?


Kicked and punched? You mean by the Systems Defense League? I thought I was getting patted on the back for my helpful clarifying observations...

A serious point: making an assertion and supporting it is often called "making an argument", but it isn't arguing in the combative sense, even when both sides are insistent - so long as nobody chooses to get offended.

pj
chgo

There's no way possible I could hold up to debating with you, I am lacking in the grammar department and I know it. I just don't have your skills in that area. It was not meant to be offensive, more of a comical jab on my end

 

[dr_dave]

But the idea is to make the biggest target possible so why would you choose to aim at the center with either?? You would be shooting at a pocket effectively half the size of the one CJ is shooting at......

With the CJ approach, using a slight amount of squirt created by inside English, he is still targeting the center of the pocket (with a small amount of English, instead of none). In other words, if he uses the correct amount of squirt and his aim is true, the OB will split the pocket in the center. If his tip is a slight amount to the left, the OB still goes in the pocket (in one side); and if it is a slight amount to the right, the OB still goes in the pocket (in the other side). The pocket "size" and margin for error is the same with both approaches. I won't continue to argue this, because the thread has already beaten the topic to death. I think we are now at the point where people just need to agree to disagree and let others make up their own minds based on the information presented and based on experience with trying both approaches at a table.

Add to that that with the inside technique you are aiming at more of the object ball which is usually easier to do visually.

I agree with this; although, it is a small effect (especially with "tight" pockets and/or long shots).

Regards,
Dave

 

[The Renfro]

With the CJ approach, using a slight amount of squirt created by inside English, he is still targeting the center of the pocket (with a small amount of English, instead of none). In other words, if he uses the correct amount of squirt and his aim is true, the OB will split the pocket in the center. If his tip is a slight amount to the left, the OB still goes in the pocket (in one side); and if it is a slight amount to the right, the OB still goes in the pocket (in the other side). The pocket "size" and margin for error is the same with both approaches. I won't continue to argue this, because the thread has already beaten the topic to death. I think we are now at the point where people just need to agree to disagree and let others make up their own minds based on the information presented and based on experience with trying both approaches at a table.

I agree with this; although, it is a small effect (especially with "tight" pockets and/or long shots).

Regards,
Dave

100% agree with the bolded statement... There has been enough discussion to warrant everyone at least trying these options and deciding for themselves which offers the best results individually....

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

allen your not taken seriously in here so go troll somewhere else.

Me thinks you're the troll here, Champ. Perhaps you'd care to explain to us the rather remarkable coincidence of your Living Legend account being created on the exact same day, 8/17/2012, that Champ2107 was banned?

 

[Living Legend]

Me thinks you're the troll here, Champ. Perhaps you'd care to explain to us the rather remarkable coincidence of your Living Legend account being created on the exact same day, 8/17/2012, that Champ2107 was banned?

i don't know who this champ is your talking about? you need to go troll under a bridge poolsharkallen, you contribute 100% nothing in here Those cte/pro1 alignments have been updated and there are now more and not that i know anything about cte/pro1

 

[CJ Wiley]

Utilizinig the "stun/hold/kill" SHOT....A Powerful, Effective Weapon in your arsenal

100% agree with the bolded statement... There has been enough discussion to warrant everyone at least trying these options and deciding for themselves which offers the best results individually....

The point of making the pocket "a zone" with the "Three Part Pocket System" is still only half of the advantage someone has in using it. The other part is the accuracy you can develop (using a "touch" of inside) moving the cue ball around the table. The angles are more true WITHOUT outside english....and you ability to "stun/kill/hold" the cue ball is an incredible "weapon" in 9BALL, and especially in One Pocket allowing you to get behind the balls and run them more effectively. Watch Efren and Scott Frost run balls and notice how their cue ball is reacting...notice how they can "kill/stun/hold" the ball with ease. I can do it too and running 8 and Out is SO MUCH EASIER FYI To ACCOMPLISH THIS WE MUST CHANGE OUR PARADIGM 3PartPocketSystemParadigm

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Have you noticed it's always the same small handful of people? Curious, huh?


Kicked and punched? You mean by the Systems Defense League? I thought I was getting patted on the back for my helpful clarifying observations...

A serious point: making an assertion and supporting it is often called "making an argument", but it isn't arguing in the combative sense, even when both sides are insistent - so long as nobody chooses to get offended.

pj
chgo

I think people only get offended when you're condescending. For example, I wrote you a respectful post and you couldn't help yourself and had to end your reply with a needle.

When people treat you with respect and you continue to be insulting or passive aggressive, you have major issues.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[CJ Wiley]

Can they make a machine/computer that can run out as good as a human?

What humors me about PJ is the fact he constantly debates and frustrates people. He gets banned numerous times , kicked and punched and STILL comes up arguing. Got to give him props for consistency lol

Forgive me for my lack of insight, but how well does PJ play pool? He does make some good points and then....well, let's just say the science of pool doesn't really help you run the balls. Like Wade Crane used to say, "if it was about science they could make a machine that could pocket a ball and run out as good as us!"

 

[ENGLISH!]

Forgive me for my lack of insight, but how well does PJ play pool? He does make some good points and then....well, let's just say the science of pool doesn't really help you run the balls. Like Wade Crane used to say, "if it was about science they could make a machine that could pocket a ball and run out as good as us!"

Good point Mr. Wiley...I mean Mr. Crane.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

No but we already understand that you will never try anything being discussed here at the table. You are holding up our progress for those of us that would like to learn more from CJ. I get that you don't think his technique is useful or valuable, i respect your opinion. However I would like to learn more from CJ. I also respect his opinion. Instead of constantly forceing your viewpoint over and over let us that are willing to give it a shot learn more.

My posts politely pointing out what I observe about this technique are non-disruptive and informative. It's posts like this, complaining about nothing and doing nothing but causing discord, always by the same few posters (I bet any regular here can name them), that derail threads.

pj
chgo

 

[Mikjary]

But the idea is to make the biggest target possible so why would you choose to aim at the center with either?? You would be shooting at a pocket effectively half the size of the one CJ is shooting at......

I like this guy!:smile:

Best,
Mike

 

[Patrick Johnson]

There's no way possible I could hold up to debating with you, I am lacking in the grammar department and I know it. I just don't have your skills in that area. It was not meant to be offensive, more of a comical jab on my end

I took no offense, Petey. Hope I didn't give that impression.

pj
chgo