How do we all help improve the image of pocket billiards?

[CJ Wiley]

This process of learning is comparable to a "7 Layer Cake".

For me personally, I have had the pleasure of introducing billiards and pool to many of my friends. Some of them liked it for a while, then hated it, and some liked it for a while and kept on liking it. Most tell me they're simply too busy for it, which I understand. I bring many new people to the parlor all the time. I like to show them a variety of games, carom and pocket, to play. The most popular among all is 8-ball, which kind of makes me wonder why.

The Game is fascinating now and has always been to people. As games go, I like referring to it as the "Master Game" because it as so many levels of understanding. The deeper your understanding the more you will get out of the Game. This process of learning is comparable to a "7 Layer Cake".

 

[pooler]

Re: Post (#116)

Pardon me, but I feel I must express a little of a disagreement here:

Unfortunately for players in the USA the government doesn't support Kids Playing Pool or the Professional Players like in most other countries...

Actually, there are very few countries in the World where governments support Kids Playing Pool directly. And even in these countries it did not happen just automatically – many stubborn people with positive attitude had worked a long time to improve the image of Pool well enough for the respective Government to (in most cases reluctantly) accept this kind of activity as a sport. Even so – the money does not just flow into bank accounts – for each separate project or event you must do an incredible lot of paperwork, still not being sure, whether or not, you are granted the support.
Truly, however, it is not all jsut about the Government money; my point is – even impossible things can be done if a person or a group of individuals try hard to achieve it; one way or another – was it not the main idea for you started this thread, Sir ???

that's why so many other countries have produced a string of younger champion speed players. The USA hasn't and won't.

Now, that statement is kind of depressing.

Firstly, because it is clearly against the initial statement in this thread (Quotes from post #1):
“... I heard all the negative "we can't do it because of blah, blah, blah"...”
“...Now I want to talk to You that believe IT CAN BE DONE...”
“...What have you done or what would you be willing to do to help promote pool?...”
Secondly:
Can you name any kind of activity that could be developed to a “speed level” with no young generation being involved at the earliest possible stage? (sports, culture, economy, science, anything...) ??? Is it not that such involvement is an absolute must ???

And finally this; I will underline it again:

“... The USA hasn't and won't...”.

What do you mean??? Isn’t such thesis clearly against everything that the American society has ever thrived upon ???

I do hope no one takes offence with my statements Clearly, I am talking about principles. :boring:
Regards to you all

 

[poolmouse]

In answer to the original question "we all" do not need to improve the image of pocket Billiards. Those of us who are decent, honest, respectable and respectful human beings only need to keep doing what we are doing.

Exterminating the vermin would improve the image of pocket Billiards but it would lessen the rest of us as human beings. The vermin raising their standards would also help but a cull is probably more likely.

Well said.

 

[Goldy]

n0risc...That is a great idea! Having the ability to live stream on demand, and affordably would be a great way to share great play, and increase awareness. Scott Lee

Thanks Scott for your acknowledgement!

 

[CJ Wiley]

I do believe I owe the Game a huge dept and would like to pay the Game back.

Re: Post (#116)

Pardon me, but I feel I must express a little of a disagreement here:


Actually, there are very few countries in the World where governments support Kids Playing Pool directly. And even in these countries it did not happen just automatically – many stubborn people with positive attitude had worked a long time to improve the image of Pool well enough for the respective Government to (in most cases reluctantly) accept this kind of activity as a sport. Even so – the money does not just flow into bank accounts – for each separate project or event you must do an incredible lot of paperwork, still not being sure, whether or not, you are granted the support.
Truly, however, it is not all jsut about the Government money; my point is – even impossible things can be done if a person or a group of individuals try hard to achieve it; one way or another – was it not the main idea for you started this thread, Sir ???



Now, that statement is kind of depressing.

Firstly, because it is clearly against the initial statement in this thread (Quotes from post #1):
“... I heard all the negative "we can't do it because of blah, blah, blah"...”
“...Now I want to talk to You that believe IT CAN BE DONE...”
“...What have you done or what would you be willing to do to help promote pool?...”
Secondly:
Can you name any kind of activity that could be developed to a “speed level” with no young generation being involved at the earliest possible stage? (sports, culture, economy, science, anything...) ??? Is it not that such involvement is an absolute must ???

And finally this; I will underline it again:

“... The USA hasn't and won't...”.

What do you mean??? Isn’t such thesis clearly against everything that the American society has ever thrived upon ???

I do hope no one takes offence with my statements Clearly, I am talking about principles. :boring:
Regards to you all

So are you asking me to describe in detail what I've done and what I would be willing to do for Pocket Billiards? I do believe I owe the Game a huge dept and would like to have the opportunity to pay that back at some point in the very near future. As they say "I'm ready, willing and able".

 

[CJ Wiley]

I road the last wave, wonder what the new one will be?

Well said.

The fact is when 1000 random people were polled only 2% said they would watch pool UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES...it didn't matter how much money was involved or even what type of pool game it was....on the other hand when ask if they would be interested in watching pool if they KNEW THE PLAYER and had heard them tell interesting stories about "gambling at pool and life on the road", it jumped up to over 70%....this puts a big hole in the stories saying "pool's not successful because of the image of gambling and hustling"....it's quite the contrary my pool friends...the fact is POOL CAN NOT BE SUCCESSFUL WITHOUT THE IMAGE OF HUSTLING AND GAMBLING....this is the "powder" in the magic bullet and the key that unlocks the door to understanding the real reason pool has declined in the past 15 years.....after all the waves were all made by 'THE HUSTLER' and 'THE COLOR OF MONEY'....I road the last wave and did very well until about 10 years after the release of the C.O.M. (in 86 starring Paul Newman and Tom Cruise)....I honest cringe every time I hear about the image being the problem....in actuality it's a big part of the solution.

 

[pooler]

Let's stay solutions oriented

So are you asking me to describe in detail what I've done and what I would be willing to do for Pocket Billiards? I do believe I owe the Game a huge dept and would like to have the opportunity to pay that back at some point in the very near future. As they say "I'm ready, willing and able".

Dear Sir,

Thank you for addressing my post directly; however, I am afraid that you misunderstood me.

I would never dare to request from you to explain yourself of your past or current actions. That would be so incorrect of me; I am in no position to do such a thing.
In fact, I never do that to anybody, purely as a matter of respect.

The question I had put forward in my post “... what do you mean???...” was referring to the statement “...The USA hasn't and won't...” which I found quite disturbing.

Yes, we all know that the USA Government (has not supported) does not support Pool. Full stop.

But there is no reason to state that it will never happen in the future. In fact, it should be the ultimate goal for anyone who cares for the future of Pool. Directly or indirectly (through local Authorities, Foundations, Organisations, Officials – regardless, if it is subsidies or just personal support) it may happen in the future and therefore, such support must be looked for.
Whether it is found or not, when and by whom – it is another question. I am afraid that so many Officials and Organisations that have been elected to work towards the brighter future of Pool clearly do not fulfil their tasks to the expected standards.
Yet, very few of them do so – which means it is possible.

I was drawn to this thread by your initial statement, which I read : “please, everyone, stop moaning but be positive and solution oriented”.
And thank you – your statement in your (above cited) post says just that, thank you, full respect.

How to improve the image of Pocket Billiards???

Yes, ideas are needed.
Yes, common actions are needed.
Yes, some of us are able to think positive and some are even creative.
Yes, we should join together to put a common goal in real life.

What is a common goal, though???
QUOTE: “...IMPROVING THE IMAGE AND POPULARITY OF POCKET BILLIARDS...” – sounds great but it is too general.
It means everything but, at the same time, it really means nothing. Nothing at all – simply because it is just a slogan, a catchphrase.
We have to name the problems specifically; and address them; then find solutions.

Here is the first one; I would say, the most serious:

The pool society in the USA is ageing fast !!! Rapidly !!!

In no time, the now famous “South Dakota Kid” will reach the Seniors age (close to thirty now). Will he become another case of the “Last of the Mohicans” for the rest of the World does not see his successors on an American soil?
(Here I do apologise to Mr SvB , a great person in Pool, to bring him into this debate)

Find Kids to play !!! Get them youngsters to practice !!! Motivate them !!!

It is not true that all of them just dream of sinking themselves into the Virtual World. Some of them do, but most of them just do not know how to do better.

If it could have been done in other parts of the World - it can be done in the USA !!! Period !!!

Regards to all

 

[CJ Wiley]

A young boy wanted to be the best pool player in the world

g.

.

If it could have been done in other parts of the World - it can be done in the USA !!!

Regards to all



A young boy wanted to be the best pool player in the world....he researched and found a Master Instuctor to learn from and called on him.....the Master met with him and the boy said "Master, I want to be the Best Pool Player in the whole world, how long will it take me?".....the Master said 10 years....the boy, troubled, said "what if I practice more than any of your students, how long will it take?"......the Master said 20 years...even more disturbed the boy ask "what if I practice day and night to be the best, how long will it take?"....the Master said "30 years".....the disappointed boy said "how come when I say I will practice and work harder, you say it will take longer?"....The Master took a sip of his tea and said "the reason is simple young man, with one eye on your destination you only have one eye to achieve your
goal...to be the best you must focus all your attention on how it will be done and let the future decide when it will be done".

 

[Tobermory]

Dear CJ--

I have often thought that, just as tournament directors have a dress code for players, they ought also to have a dress code for the spectators, at least the ones in view of the camera for any televised or recorded match--in the event that pool should ever be televised again. Also, players should play with their shirts tucked in. I have often said that if I ever, in a delirium of overconfidence, challenged a professional player to a game I would demand as part of my gigantic spot that he play with his shirt tucked in. I have the impression for most pros it would be like Samson lifting weights after a military haircut.

 

[Black-Balled]

I got nothing constructive, but this dude was a badass:

Canadian "Big" Bill Werbeniuk. A 20-stone giant who died of heart failure aged 56 in 2003, he claimed he needed copious quantities of alcohol to stop shaking while he cued.

"I've had 24 pints of extra strong lager and eight double vodkas," he said after his last professional match in 1990, "and I'm still not drunk."

 

[duckie]

The fact is when 1000 random people were polled only 2% said they would watch pool UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES...it didn't matter how much money was involved or even what type of pool game it was....on the other hand when ask if they would be interested in watching pool if they KNEW THE PLAYER and had heard them tell interesting stories about "gambling at pool and life on the road", it jumped up to over 70%....this puts a big hole in the stories saying "pool's not successful because of the image of gambling and hustling"....it's quite the contrary my pool friends...

the fact is POOL CAN NOT BE SUCCESSFUL WITHOUT THE IMAGE OF HUSTLING AND GAMBLING...​

.this is the "powder" in the magic bullet and the key that unlocks the door to understanding the real reason pool has declined in the past 15 years.....after all the waves were all made by 'THE HUSTLER' and 'THE COLOR OF MONEY'....I road the last wave and did very well until about 10 years after the release of the C.O.M. (in 86 starring Paul Newman and Tom Cruise)....I honest cringe every time I hear about the image being the problem....in actuality it's a big part of the solution.

You need new friends and your friends are not the voice of the entire pool playing world.

I do not want to be a part of a sport that encourages hustling and whose sole focus is gambling.

This is not the type of pool I enjoy nor do I participate in. I do not want my grand kids, nieces and nephews in a sport where dishonesty is rewarded and that is what hustling is all about. Pulling a scam on someone for money.

The pooler has made some excellent points. Every pro did not start at as a pro. Most started when they were kids.

Look at the concern with the injuries to kids in some sports, such as football. Pool gives another way to learn the same values but in safe and a more equal manner to all than football.

Also, how many kids that played football during school after school leagues continue to play as they get older? I saw Jim Plunkett, a NFL QB, one time a a high school function. He could not walk up the bleachers his knees were so bad. You can learn pool in school and play it to your 90's.

The place you had is a perfect example of a bar with pool tables and not a pool room. Not family friendly at all.

This idea that the pool world needs to revolve around the hustler or the pro is what is killing the growth of pool.

 

[Black-Balled]

"Big" Bill Werbeniuk

Is badderer now than last time I thought of him.:barf::thud::shrug::woot:

 

[Mr. Bond]

I dont disdain money matches, or playing for a few bucks, but generally I agree with this:

I do not want to be a part of a sport that encourages hustling and whose sole focus is gambling.

Yes, football, baseball, hockey, golf etc etc etc etc all have people that "gamble" on them, but the professionals are not portrayed that way, and for good reason. Even when players get caught acting up on their own "free time" they are heavily scrutinized by the public and by their own industry, for good reason.

Yes, there is a certain demographic that absolutely loves gambling. But keep in mind that there is a larger demographic that doesnt. Just take a look at where the casinos are in this country and you'll see what I mean. You cant just plop one down anywhere you like, because most communities dont want them. What in the world makes you think that these same communities would want gambling pool players?

Gaming and competition are human rituals that date back to the beginning of time. We do it and we love it. No problem there. But hustling and gambling have nothing to do with that - and in my opinion detract from the true honor of being the best.

 

[hsbilliards]

Here are some things I have worked on the last 15 years to improve the image of the sport I love here in Dallas, Texas area.


Thinking outside of the box!

Gambling and the old stigma's won't get us there.

Here are my ways that I use to get youth involved.

http://www.betterplaybilliards.org-...icle&id=26:billiards&catid=1:latest&Itemid=87

http://nationalbilliardfootballleague.com/index.php/nbfl-videos

Earl Munson
PBIA Instructor
BEF Junior National Tournament Director
BETTER HS Billiard Program-Director
NBFL- Executive League Commisioner

 

[CJ Wiley]

This is VERY impressive!!!

Here are some things I have worked on the last 15 years to improve the image of the sport I love here in Dallas, Texas area.


Thinking outside of the box!

Gambling and the old stigma's won't get us there.

Here are my ways that I use to get youth involved.

http://www.betterplaybilliards.org-...icle&id=26:billiards&catid=1:latest&Itemid=87

http://nationalbilliardfootballleague.com/index.php/nbfl-videos

Earl Munson
PBIA Instructor
BEF Junior National Tournament Director
BETTER HS Billiard Program-Director
NBFL- Executive League Commisioner

This is VERY impressive!!!....let me know if there's ever anything I can do to help or assist in any way. Becoming the National High School Champion in Chicago MANY years ago was a highlight of my life in pocket billiards. Your web site looks great!

 

[CJ Wiley]

The "hustler" and gambler is a thing of the past as many well know.

You need new friends and your friends are not the voice of the entire pool playing world.

I do not want to be a part of a sport that encourages hustling and whose sole focus is gambling.

This is not the type of pool I enjoy nor do I participate in. I do not want my grand kids, nieces and nephews in a sport where dishonesty is rewarded and that is what hustling is all about. Pulling a scam on someone for money.

The pooler has made some excellent points. Every pro did not start at as a pro. Most started when they were kids.

Look at the concern with the injuries to kids in some sports, such as football. Pool gives another way to learn the same values but in safe and a more equal manner to all than football.

Also, how many kids that played football during school after school leagues continue to play as they get older? I saw Jim Plunkett, a NFL QB, one time a a high school function. He could not walk up the bleachers his knees were so bad. You can learn pool in school and play it to your 90's.

The place you had is a perfect example of a bar with pool tables and not a pool room. Not family friendly at all.

This idea that the pool world needs to revolve around the hustler or the pro is what is killing the growth of pool.

The "hustler" and gambler is a thing of the past as many well know. There aren't pool hustlers roaming the highways anymore because that phase of American History is over.....finished. However, what people have always been most interested in is the STORIES of the past hustlers like the "Fast Eddie Felson" types of characters. The Movie 'The Color of Money' was a huge box office success and encouraged an age of Upscale Billiard establishments. There's a big difference between this "fantacy world" and the reall world we live in today. It's been over 25 years since I had anything to do with "hustling" anyone and I'm ever very careful these days not to gamble with anyone that doesn't know who I am and how I'm playing at this time in my career. The fact that there is very little gambling is very apparent and I'm certain no one will disagree with that. But to look at a Think Tank poll like we conducted and turn a blind eye to the fact that the general public LOVES the stories of the old "pool hustling days" would be a mistake. I have no intention of "bringing those days back", this would be foolish and quite frankly impossible, but if a movie, documentary, or national strory could be leveraged to create another boom in pool I think it should be considered. Are there more colorful stories involving pocket billiards that DON'T have any gambling aspects to them? If so I would like to hear a few of them and see how they honestly compare.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I dont disdain money matches, or playing for a few bucks, but generally I agree with this:



Yes, football, baseball, hockey, golf etc etc etc etc all have people that "gamble" on them, but the professionals are not portrayed that way, and for good reason. Even when players get caught acting up on their own "free time" they are heavily scrutinized by the public and by their own industry, for good reason.

Yes, there is a certain demographic that absolutely loves gambling. But keep in mind that there is a larger demographic that doesnt. Just take a look at where the casinos are in this country and you'll see what I mean. You cant just plop one down anywhere you like, because most communities dont want them. What in the world makes you think that these same communities would want gambling pool players?

Gaming and competition are human rituals that date back to the beginning of time. We do it and we love it. No problem there. But hustling and gambling have nothing to do with that - and in my opinion detract from the true honor of being the best.

Mr. Bond,

Well said.

I very much agree with you. Sure, Pro golfers make friendly wagers during practice rounds but it is for miniscue amounts compared to the prize money for which they will be competeing & they are all pros & know that they are pros.

Mr. Mosconi, said & was proud of the fact that he never 'hustled' anyone. He did not like the image that Mr. Walderone, Fats, was promoting. A true amateur or professional can elevate the perception of the game, while a gambling 'hustler' taking advantage of & money from an unsuspecting 'fish' only lowers the perception.

I do not have an answer to the gambling problem except perhaps once pool has sanctioned professionals, with playing 'rights', similiar to golf, gambling outside of the ranks could be 'outlawed' & cause for loosing one's playing rights.

I feel that is a long ways off.

With regrets,
Rick

 

[CJ Wiley]

"Fast Eddie Felson made an impression on a lot of us through the years

You need new friends and your friends are not the voice of the entire pool playing world.

I do not want to be a part of a sport that encourages hustling and whose sole focus is gambling.

This is not the type of pool I enjoy nor do I participate in. I do not want my grand kids, nieces and nephews in a sport where dishonesty is rewarded and that is what hustling is all about. Pulling a scam on someone for money.

The pooler has made some excellent points. Every pro did not start at as a pro. Most started when they were kids.

Look at the concern with the injuries to kids in some sports, such as football. Pool gives another way to learn the same values but in safe and a more equal manner to all than football.

Also, how many kids that played football during school after school leagues continue to play as they get older? I saw Jim Plunkett, a NFL QB, one time a a high school function. He could not walk up the bleachers his knees were so bad. You can learn pool in school and play it to your 90's.

The place you had is a perfect example of a bar with pool tables and not a pool room. Not family friendly at all.

This idea that the pool world needs to revolve around the hustler or the pro is what is killing the growth of pool.

Louie Roberts Video....VINTAGE GAMBLING ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)
Ken_4fun
Today 07:44 PM
by cjssecrets4u2
195 20,605

This thread was posted just a week or so ago and it's about Louie Roberts, A legendary Gambler of the past. I know this is a sensitive subject, but to make an honest evaluation of the strengths and weaknesses of "pool's image" we have to look at the Facts. This thread has 20,605 Views and 195 Posts on it because it's Very Interesting to people on this site. And from our research this isn't surprising, it's just human nature to be attracted to the gambling strories of pool players, I know I am and by the looks of this thread I've got a lot of good company.

Again, I DO NOT want to see this lifestyle brought back and if anything it can be used as an example of what not to do to our younger players. I met Louie when I was 15 and after seeing what drinking/drugs did to him and a lot of players through the years I'm grateful to say "I'm drug and alcohal free" and have been for quite some time. Being in the Bar Business, and a professional/road player for many years I had my share of experience with the "not so healthy" lifestyle.

The fact is pool has a certain "tarnished" background that we can either ignore and try to "conver up" or leverage in a way the creates interest and may even set an example to the youth of "what not to do" in a way that may actually make a difference. I know after watching the movie 'The Hustler' no one really want's to follow in the footsteps of "Fast Eddie Felson", but from an entertainment and reall life drama perspective the movie is GOLD...and it made an impression on a lot of us through the years. Thank God some of us learned what "not to do".:wink:

 

[hsbilliards]

CJ I would like to talk to you on how we can expand the high school program here in Dallas and Texas. I need your help. I always tell the students about your year book and what you put in it.

Send me a PM and lets get together.

 

[hsbilliards]

I would love to see a GREAT movie made about pool in the 1920's-30's settings.

A a gut-wrenching reflection of our past that seems to have repeated on us.

About the great generation and what they went through. The Post-World War I feelings and the un-easiness of the world events they had back then. The euphoria of the stock market, the schemes (Ponzi), the hustles, the market crash, and the hard times of the depression. It would be like the Hustler movie but 40 years before.

The movie would shift back back and forth from PRESENT and to the PAST to show history had repeated on us.

The movie title "The Great Hustle". We were all hustled by a few.

It could start in Present day with a great- grandson cleaning out his grandfathers attic finding a locked dusty chest with a diary explaining what life was like back then on the road playing pool. What he did to survive THEN. There was also World War I medals and newspaper clippings of back then, also an old cue stick his great-grand father played never touched again until that day.

It would be a mix of the Titanic, The Hustler, and ...

It would be a fun script to write. Get a whole bunch of great actors with a great director. It would be a movie where people would relate to...saying hey that is happening now.

Just a thought.

Earl Munson