John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

[Patrick Johnson]

BeiberLvr:
CJ, correct me if I'm wrong.

He's not trying to send the OB to center pocket. He's saying that if he doesn't hit it perfectly, it will go to center pocket or the other side of the pocket. So that's two parts of the pocket he's using. However, if he does hit perfectly, it will go in the side of the pocket he aimed at. That's three.

CJ:
Yeah, Most people are still using two parts, even in describing my 3 Part Pocket System...if you aim at the center (which is virtually impossible anyway) you will miss a lot of balls....if you play one side and throw the ball in you will discover more than just a bigger pocket, you will discover how we Pros also play zones in our position play. It's all connected, you're either connected to the Game or you're just hitting round balls around a rectangle. LoL ... To play the game at a high level you must be "part of it", you must be connected, and the "Touch of Inside" gives you that Touch/Connection. It's a lot deeper than just "margin for error"....Yes Indeed.

I don't think CJ answered your question directly, so here's what he said in his first post describing his technique:

"...if you play the shot off center to purposely throw the ball you can aim at the severe edge of the pocket and basically deflect it in to the center....if it doesn't deflect you will hit the part of the pocket you are aiming at, and if it deflects too much it will go into the other side of the pocket..."

In other words, the ideal outcome is to hit the center of the pocket. As I've said before, this is exactly the same (except in the way it's described) as aiming for center pocket in the first place, adding some side and adjusting your aim toward the side of the pocket to compensate for squirt. "Using" squirt and "compensating for" it are the same thing in reality.

pj
chgo

 

[CJ Wiley]

only a few will walk the way of the warrior

You missed the entire basis for consistency in this method. You are effectively eliminating missing in one direction. You deliberately cue in a position that guarantees that you will send the cue ball in one direction. A miss hit slightly will put your cue at center cue ball and still pocket the ball at the edge of the pocket.

The cue ball is squirting in one direction only as opposed to squirting in two directions if you aim center ball and miss hit the cue ball. Aiming at the center of the pocket and misjudging speed or squirt only gives you one third of the pocket as a margin for error. CJ's method gives you two thirds. If you do miss hit the cue ball and get center ball, you make it in the edge of the pocket you aimed for.

I don't like the idea of my cue ball squirting left and right. One direction only is a worthwhile improvement.

Best,
Mike

Disclaimer: I don't advocate anybody using this mental improvent to their game. Just keep doing what you're doing and don't listen to the champion.

You are understanding 'The Way'... only a few will walk the way of the warrior

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You are effectively eliminating missing in one direction.

No, you're not.

A miss hit slightly will put your cue at center cue ball and still pocket the ball at the edge of the pocket.

It doesn't matter where you intend to hit the CB - centerball or offcenter. Your stroke is still the same, so you'll still miss that tip/CB target in both directions - and that means you'll miss the intended OB target in both directions. (And, by the way, the OB target is the center of the pocket with this technique, like with other techniques. It's just described differently.)

Aiming at the center of the pocket and misjudging speed or squirt only gives you one third of the pocket as a margin for error.

One third per side = two thirds total. And since you're really aiming for the center of the pocket with or without this technique, this doesn't change.

I don't like the idea of my cue ball squirting left and right. One direction only is a worthwhile improvement.

Well, it seems to give you more confidence...

pj
chgo

 

[duckie]

If it is virtually( a weasel word btw) impossible to hit center pocket, then it would be also virtually impossible to hit any part of the pocket.

Trying to hit one part of the pocket is no harder than trying to hit another part.

If you can not put the OB where you want, you need to practice more and better. This aim to one side is just another form of a system which as with all systems is highly overrated.

 

[CJ Wiley]

you will feel the shot in a new and refreshing way.

Cj how do you go about connecting the balls in order to pocket them?
Do you apply the same approach on all shots and angle's or do you do something different because of angle and distance?
Also are you using one certain spot off the center?

Anthony

I suggest you need to develop a FEEL for the pocket. All this talk about aiming systems have side tracked you, even though there's a time and an order for any "system".

I advise that you do this: Take 2 hours of practice by yourself....leave your "self judgement" outside the door before you walk in and find a table where you can be alone. Clear your mind and practice just pocketing any ball, with this difference....Stand up much taller than usual, so you have to "feel the balls connect and then connect to the pocket".

....use the "Touch of Inside" on every shot and hit every shot CRISP, not following through any more than you take the cue back.....remember, no judgment for making or not making any shot...just allow yourself to FEEL the shots and CONNECT from the cue ball to the object ball, to the pocket....create this Triangular Dynamic ...

do not shoot towards a spot on the object ball or use ANY aiming system, just experience enjoyment of connecting to the game and experiencing how well you can pocket balls standing a FOOT higher (if possible) than normal....this is important so you will feel your stroke getting smoother and resisting the temptation to "see" something that may not even be there....just CREATE the angles with no thought about the outcome at all....

.do this for 2-3 hours and things will start to come clear to you and you will feel the shot in a new and refreshing way.

 

[Jal]

If I aim at the left side of the pocket, cutting a ball to the right OR the right side of the pocket cutting a ball to the left and use the "Touch of Inside" the ONLY way I can not MAKE the ball is to over cut it. I have effectively taken the undercut out of the equation.

But, as Patrick indicated, the touch of inside (with the associated squirt) means that you're, in effect, aiming at center pocket and thus have the same margin of error on either side of center.

If you think you're aiming for the "thick" side of the pocket accurately (without the squirt yet factoring in), but are in fact undercutting it by one-half pocket +, and the squirt would have taken you back to center pocket had you aimed to the thick side accurately, you're still going to undercut it by more than one-half pocket, even with the squirt compensation.

And if you think you're aiming for the thick side of the pocket accurately (without the squirt yet factoring in), but are in fact overcutting it by one-half pocket +, and the squirt would have taken you to center pocket had you aimed accurately, you're now going to overcut it by more than one-half pocket. In this case, the squirt is not your friend. In the former case, it wasn't enough of a friend.

If the squirt isn't designed to get you back to center pocket, then your misses are going to be skewed toward either undercutting or overcutting, but the total number won't be reduced, all else being equal.

I would suggest anyone that believes that this technique increases the margin of error seriously mull over Patrick's characterization. It's the simplest way to see the fallacy.

Jim

 

[Mikjary]

No, you're not.


It doesn't matter where you intend to hit the CB - centerball or offcenter. Your stroke is still the same, so you'll still miss that tip/CB target in both directions - and that means you'll miss the intended OB target in both directions. (And, by the way, the OB target is the center of the pocket with this technique, like with other techniques. It's just described differently.)


One third per side = two thirds total. And since you're really aiming for the center of the pocket with or without this technique, this doesn't change.


Well, it seems to give you more confidence...

pj
chgo

You're really spinning this now, PJ. It seems you won't be taken in with this whole charade. It's also your idea, too, because you already know how to do it. Only you speak of it in a different way.

And "aiming for center of the pocket?" Wait...let me write that down before I forget it! This repackaged, reheated, recap of a knowledgeable pro player's words is quite a stretch. Your meglomania is showing. My advice is to pull the dress down from over your head and let the real discussion continue. Seriously...

Best,
Mike

 

[Patrick Johnson]

you already know how to do it. Only you speak of it in a different way.

That's right. I describe it in the usual way and don't claim extraordinary powers for it that it doesn't have.

...pull the dress down from over your head and let the real discussion continue. Seriously...

That's "serious Mike", huh?

Last I looked, I was part of the "real discussion".

pj
chgo

 

[Jal]

If it is virtually( a weasel word btw) impossible to hit center pocket, then it would be also virtually impossible to hit any part of the pocket.

Nicely put (although I use "virtually" all the time :frown

If you can not put the OB where you want, you need to practice more and better. This aim to one side is just another form of a system which as with all systems is highly overrated.

And, like CTE, it tries to sweep some of the challenge under the rug, promising to magically take care of those details for you.

Jim

 

[sfleinen]

[...]
Some don't even know how the elbows works and gives out false info as such.

Hilarious, coming from a person who says this:

[...]
I know how joints work. I know how muscles work. One expanding while the other contracts.
[...]

Yep, muscles "expand" according to QA Tester duckie. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, medical establishment!

Maybe growing up I was fooled once to often by the experts, the pros and as such learned to think on my own and not be a sheep following flock.

I'm engineers worst nightmare, I can think.

Although you can "think," Greg, that's not because you're an engineer's worst nightmare. It's because your knowledge base is... well... so off-base, that reasonably-learned folks are left scratching their heads in astonishment.

-Sean

 

[Mikjary]

That's "serious Mike", huh?

Last I looked, I was part of the "real discussion".

pj
chgo

You're spinning CJ's instruction and creating a side discussion. Whether you believe what he's purporting or not, tomato or tomahto isn't advancing the discussion. I'm not helping either, but do we have to consistently put off information from reliable sources on semantics and details in their descriptions?

When it's all said and done, let's review the evidence and each one of us form their own opinion and hopefully take a little something from the discussion. Egos aside, lets let the info flow and not stop to check the oil between fillups.

We've got several sidebar convos going right now. No information is happening. I'd like to see CJ come back and talk about his experiences and move into a further discussion on the possibilities of the game. Who here can say they know more?



Best,
Mike

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...lets let the info flow

In both directions. This is a discussion forum.

pj
chgo

 

[JoeyA]

For cut shots.....................

Most of us do 90% of our aiming while standing erect.

If while standing, we aim for the inside of the pocket with CENTER BALL (automatically adjusting for CIT-collision induced throw), then as we get down on the shot, we add "a touch of INSIDE"......

What happens if we hit the cue ball in the perfect center by accident?

What happens if we hit the cue ball with "a touch of inside"?

What happens if we hit the cue ball with just a touch more of "a touch of inside"?

 

[dr_dave]

That is not an aiming system. Dr. Dave admits that the D.A.M. acronym was created to MOCK aiming systems.

When I first created the DAM marketing introduction, I was mocking some of the ridiculous claims we've heard about "aiming systems" over all of these years.

However, the actual description of DAM does offer good advice that I think many (if not most) top players follow. Check it out here:

DAM useful advice for aiming​

Regards,
Dave

 

[LAMas]

Most of us do 90% of our aiming while standing erect.

If while standing, we aim for the inside of the pocket with CENTER BALL (automatically adjusting for CIT-collision induced throw), then as we get down on the shot, we add "a touch of INSIDE"......

What happens if we hit the cue ball in the perfect center by accident?

What happens if we hit the cue ball with "a touch of inside"?

What happens if we hit the cue ball with just a touch more of "a touch of inside"?

When cutting an OB down the rail, even if froze to it, is there a helping english that would have the OB hug the rail?

If you under cut that shot and it banks to the outside pocket face, is there a helping english that will cause the OB to bank off of that face toward the pocket and not toward the other face?

 

[CJ Wiley]

The next stop is the zone

Most of us do 90% of our aiming while standing erect.

If while standing, we aim for the inside of the pocket with CENTER BALL (automatically adjusting for CIT-collision induced throw), then as we get down on the shot, we add "a touch of INSIDE"......

What happens if we hit the cue ball in the perfect center by accident?

What happens if we hit the cue ball with "a touch of inside"?

What happens if we hit the cue ball with just a touch more of "a touch of inside"?

Hitting the cue ball at the center or further inside is ok...one of the critical questions is this: Would you rather judge the cue ball going 4 different "paths" (deflection right/left & spin right/left) or just 1 "path" (deflection inside)....if you can answer that question you will be "on your way to the new dimension"...THE NEXT STOP IS THE ZONE

 

[stan shuffett]

I like that Cj, "the new dimension".
Hal Houle first used that term with me 10 years ago.
I like that term so well that I plan on using it for next work whenever that might happen.
Stan Shuffett

 

[CJ Wiley]

Pool is a Multi Dimensional Game...Many Layers of Understanding

I like that Cj, "the new dimension".
Hal Houle first used that term with me 10 years ago.
I like that term so well that I plan on using it for next work whenever that might happen.
Stan Shuffett

 

[8pack]

I suggest you need to develop a FEEL for the pocket. All this talk about aiming systems have side tracked you, even though there's a time and an order for any "system".

I advise that you do this: Take 2 hours of practice by yourself....leave your "self judgement" outside the door before you walk in and find a table where you can be alone. Clear your mind and practice just pocketing any ball, with this difference....Stand up much taller than usual, so you have to "feel the balls connect and then connect to the pocket".

....use the "Touch of Inside" on every shot and hit every shot CRISP, not following through any more than you take the cue back.....remember, no judgment for making or not making any shot...just allow yourself to FEEL the shots and CONNECT from the cue ball to the object ball, to the pocket....create this Triangular Dynamic ...

do not shoot towards a spot on the object ball or use ANY aiming system, just experience enjoyment of connecting to the game and experiencing how well you can pocket balls standing a FOOT higher (if possible) than normal....this is important so you will feel your stroke getting smoother and resisting the temptation to "see" something that may not even be there....just CREATE the angles with no thought about the outcome at all....

.do this for 2-3 hours and things will start to come clear to you and you will feel the shot in a new and refreshing way.

Ok so we don't apply any aiming system to this approach.(I need to connect with something,just guessing at a shot dosnt help.)Do I just line up thick on all shots to practice this.
Also did you learn this before you put out your ultimate aiming system?
and how do you apply it with your system?And if you did why didnt you mention it?:grin:

Sorry for all the questions.


Thought I was on to this but maybe im going at this wrong.

Anthony

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I think CJ is describing a method to take the logical/analytical mind out of the routine, to allow your subconscious to take over --- freewheeling-getting into the zone, or whatever you want to call it.

If I am wrong in this assessment, please correct me CJ.