Pool has a "FATAL FLAW"

[Johnk78]

Having a dress code would be a great start for pool halls. Im not talking about having to dress preppy or anything. Im talking about having a little dignity. There is nothing worse to me than some guy wearing a wife beater with his shorts pulled down to his knees . It tends to turn off the casual players who come in there with family and friends. Save the beater and low riders for the house.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Having a dress code would be a great start for pool halls. Im not talking about having to dress preppy or anything. Im talking about having a little dignity. There is nothing worse to me than some guy wearing a wife beater with his shorts pulled down to his knees . It tends to turn off the casual players who come in there with family and friends. Save the beater and low riders for the house.

Trust me. I did not put this guy up to this. LOL

 

[The Renfro]

Paul while I acknowledge that we don't see eye to eye on many things I will continue to applaud you for the dress code requirements you have in place.....

 

[Lumocolor]

I keep trying to put the last scene of the movie "Rounders" in a pool setting since after that movie was a hit the WSOP started getting 7000-8000 people ready to toss in their 10k for their shot...

Now the last scene in a pool context "First prize at the US Open is 1500 bucks, does it have my name on it? i don't know, but i know for sure that for that amount of prize money i can't afford this cab ride to the airport to find out" :lol:

I think CJ is right if you want people to watch pool you're going to need some kind of "Banging with the stars" reality TV show, where 10 million idiots a week will want to know if Bristol Palin can shoot better than Christy Alley after 2 months of lessons. Sad but probably true.

 

[CJ Wiley]

like Boxing, but instead of flurries of punches you have flurries of shots

I am sure that you are a well intentioned nice guy and I respect your passion for the game but you are confusing me.

What Game is perfect? Old Nine-Ball Honest Effort? Push-Out Nine-Ball, Texas Express Nine-Ball, Call only the 8 Eight-Ball? Call everything Eight-Ball? Ten-Ball World Standardized Rules? Ten-Ball with Nine-Ball rules? 14.1 Straight Pool? Bank Pool? Pool300? Bonus Ball? 6Pocket? One-Pocket?

None of these games are like boxing. Boxing is highly interactive. Your metaphor is a real stretch.........Master Game?

It's very much like Boxing, but instead of flurries of punches you have flurries of shots, or at the upper level flurries of racks. Instead of hooks and jabs you have draws and stuns, instead of knock out punches, you have knock out breaks, instead of ducking and dodging you're kicking and playing safe, you don't lose blood but you do lose pride, instead of 15 rounds you must win 15 games.... 9 Ball is the best TV Game, it's fast and easy to follow because there's always just one target for the fans to follow. Like Boxing there's a pre show of the brutal training the two players have to go through to compete. And of course the championship Belt.

Call pocket, Winner Break, no specialty cues, no corner ball, break from the box, 4.25 inch pockets, Incoming Player has option to pass the shot unless it's a safe, one two way shot a game, one two way safe a game, and a 15 second shot clock, race to 15, and a Ref. with white gloves racking the balls, and players dressed in Giorgio Armani, that covers what type of game.

However, like I have stated in my last posts there must be an emotional attachment to the professionals playing the game. The Game cannot be expected to draw the audience, but the players can. It's been done before and history always repeats its self and the cycle of pocket billiards is getting ready to move up. And Yes, Pocket Billiards is the Master Game.

It's just a matter of changing the present paradigm and that's a matter of implementing a strategic plan. I have a feeling this plan is underway and the stars are aligning and that means something special is in motion, and a new age of pool will soon be born. CLICK THE PICTURE

 

[Yoda4962]

Just played in the omega 'cancer' tour stop

so much smoke you couldn't see the balls! need to burn your clothes when you get home. tables were shit ! luck based 9 ball ! ridiculous handicaps ! karaoke was more important than the tournament ! players doing their drugs in the parking lot !!!.......


And someone wants to know what's wrong with pool ???? lol

 

[HollyWood]

sweet music- thanks CJ-

I must need an update for video something- got the music and some of the shots. Its in the way that we use it. mark Playing pool with cues from the 90's. Sometime CJ please come around Minnesota again- Having some challenges and tournments (with you ) would be great- Jimmy Pro Billiards has been having(the best Minnesota 1 pocket Players compete wkly. thanks Mark- Show them the way CJ- heck you gave Earl his shot at a Million with stellar performances!!!!! All the bar players here wouldn't show up and play with out all the spots and ratings system( sucks). they should have to earn there seated places like the pro's!!!!!

 

[Paul Schofield]

It's very much like Boxing, but instead of flurries of punches you have flurries of shots, or at the upper level flurries of racks. Instead of hooks and jabs you have draws and stuns, instead of knock out punches, you have knock out breaks, instead of ducking and dodging you're kicking and playing safe, you don't lose blood but you do lose pride, instead of 15 rounds you must win 15 games.... 9 Ball is the best TV Game, it's fast and easy to follow because there's always just one target for the fans to follow. Like Boxing there's a pre show of the brutal training the two players have to go through to compete. And of course the championship Belt.

Call pocket, Winner Break, no specialty cues, no corner ball, break from the box, 4.25 inch pockets, Incoming Player has option to pass the shot unless it's a safe, one two way shot a game, one two way safe a game, and a 15 second shot clock, race to 15, and a Ref. with white gloves racking the balls, and players dressed in Giorgio Armani, that covers what type of game.

However, like I have stated in my last posts there must be an emotional attachment to the professionals playing the game. The Game cannot be expected to draw the audience, but the players can. It's been done before and history always repeats its self and the cycle of pocket billiards is getting ready to move up. And Yes, Pocket Billiards is the Master Game.

It's just a matter of changing the present paradigm and that's a matter of implementing a strategic plan. I have a feeling this plan is underway and the stars are aligning and that means something special is in motion, and a new age of pool will soon be born. CLICK THE PICTURE

So let me get this straight. Your template for pool's success is boxing. Boxing is a pure spectator sport. No one watches boxing and is inspired to box with their family and friends.

This post describes "Professional pool's exercise in self worship". I have spent 40 years trying to get people to play pool and I can tell you with certainty that the rotation games are just too difficult for people to play and understand. As a room owner and local promoter, I can't do anything with Nine-Ball that successfully promotes pool in my locale.

Can you not see the disconnect here? I am tring to get people to play pool. You are tring to get people to watch. The public is not going to play what you are trying to get them to watch.

 

[CJ Wiley]

We are playing different roles, and both are important

So let me get this straight. Your template for pool's success is boxing. Boxing is a pure spectator sport. No one watches boxing and is inspired to box with their family and friends.

This post describes "Professional pool's exercise in self worship". I have spent 40 years trying to get people to play pool and I can tell you with certainty that the rotation games are just too difficult for people to play and understand. As a room owner and local promoter, I can't do anything with Nine-Ball that successfully promotes pool in my locale.

Can you not see the disconnect here? I am tring to get people to play pool. You are tring to get people to watch. The public is not going to play what you are trying to get them to watch.

We are playing different roles, and both are important. Without having the game on TV you will never get the popularity that you seek.

And you do "real eyes" the boxing is a comparison of the style of game. A lot of people like to box on a video game, but no one want's to get hurt playing a game.

That's the beauty of Pool, you can have the competition of boxing without the blood.:wink: There are many people that love to compete and rotation games can be made easier. They just need expert instruction and that is coming too because we will soon be able to give instruction on line.

Pocket Billiards is an art form, a way to express ourselves and there's a new age coming. Out with the old and in with the new is what they say. We don't teach the Game, the Game teaches us, and the Game plays through us. It's a unique form of self expression, no different than an artist or musician. 'The Game is the Teacher' Click Pic

 

[The Renfro]

Before the public can make a connection with the game they must first make a connection with the players... Snooker did a bunch of promo on the players and the ratings improved....

They didn't have the players talk about their big scores gambling but more along the lines of who they were and where they came from... The stuff that many of us can understand....

Most pool players are from blue collar backgrounds... If we can get John Q Public to identify with the players then we can create a connection....

At the US Open the front runners for the Accu-Stats 1pocket "Make it Happen" event will be interviewed... If that's letting the cat out of the bag then so be it.... A connection has got to be made before any of the professional level bodies have a chance at all in making it past today... The industry at the pro level struggles on every front and there is NO professional promotion....

The players for the most part have zero clue as to how to start and that's is not a knock it is only the reality of the situation....

There are great stories about coming from nothing and finding something deep inside yourself that mattered... That made you different.. That turned you into a champion... That can come from 1 of a hundred pro level players.... Pro Pool players are the underdog and if you look around the US for the most part most of us are in the same boat...

If the sport can figure out how to cast the players as they are instead of how they pretend or want to be we will be 2 or 3 steps ahead of where we are and have been for 3 decades....

The husting stories are only great if you understand where the players came from... our pros are not rich kid polo players or golfers... They came from a hard working background with grit in their hearts and an emptiness in their guts that drove them to become who they are...

THOSE are the stories that can stand up and change the direction of the wind IF they can find a forum that will get the stories out.....

 

[krupa]

What Game is perfect? Old Nine-Ball Honest Effort? Push-Out Nine-Ball, Texas Express Nine-Ball, Call only the 8 Eight-Ball? Call everything Eight-Ball? Ten-Ball World Standardized Rules? Ten-Ball with Nine-Ball rules? 14.1 Straight Pool? Bank Pool? Pool300? Bonus Ball? 6Pocket? One-Pocket? Should I continue with this? A marketing manager would not even know where to begin.

This is like saying cards have a problem because you can play Gin, Cribbage, Bridge, Euchre, pitch, blackjack, etc., etc. However, that is exactly what makes a deck of cards (and a pool table) so perfect. They are both remarkably flexible game platforms where you can play an almost infinite number of games.

14.1 is pretty damn good. From your point of view, I think the only downside is that one player could run 150 and out. However, the player's you frequently reference -- the ones that can't play rotation games -- would never run 100+ balls. The game is hard, but that doesn't mean it has a "flaw."

No game or activity is worth doing if it's easy. You want to attract new players? Let 'em play APA 8-ball. Court the higher-skill levels to get into 9-ball or 14.1, start other non-APA leagues for people to "graduate" to. When people's handicaps go up, reward them with something... free/discounted table time, for example. Let 'em learn how to pocket balls and get shape by playing offense-only games like Pool 300.

I mentioned it before, there's a book called "300 ways to play billiards". Have you read it to see what's in there? Maybe there's already a game that meets your desires?

Edited to add: Any newcomer to the game is going to have difficulty getting the cue ball and object balls to do what he/she wants them to do. Because of that, I think the rules of the game being played are largely irrelevant.

 

[CJ Wiley]

you will hear how Earl Stickland trained for the event and what he did to win.

Sometime CJ please come around Minnesota again- Having some challenges and tournments (with you ) would be great- Jimmy Pro Billiards has been having(the best Minnesota 1 pocket Players compete wkly. thanks Mark- Show them the way CJ- heck you gave Earl his shot at a Million with stellar performances!!!!! All the bar players here wouldn't show up and play with out all the spots and ratings system( sucks). they should have to earn there seated places like the pro's!!!!![/QUOTE]

I'm currently doing a Documentary of Earl running the 11 racks in a row for the Million Dollar Challenge and 'The Real Story' of what happended behind the scenes. This is the most amazing feat in the history of pocket billiards and upon returning to the Professional game I feel this historic story must be told. No one was ever told what really happened and you will hear how Earl Stickland trained for the event and what he did to win.

I'll make it back up to Minnesato one of these days, my sister used to live there, but moved to Geneva Switzerland a few months ago. Tell Jimmy "Hi" for me and I hope he's doing well and drop me a line on here or Face Book sometime, I"d love to hear from him. Tell everyone I"m training a lot of people on some really cool techniques, just click my athlete's page below.

 

[CJ Wiley]

you will hear how Earl Stickland trained for the event and what he did to win.

Sometime CJ please come around Minnesota again- Having some challenges and tournments (with you ) would be great- Jimmy Pro Billiards has been having(the best Minnesota 1 pocket Players compete wkly. thanks Mark- Show them the way CJ- heck you gave Earl his shot at a Million with stellar performances!!!!! All the bar players here wouldn't show up and play with out all the spots and ratings system( sucks). they should have to earn there seated places like the pro's!!!!![/QUOTE]

I'm currently doing a Documentary of Earl running the 11 racks in a row for the Million Dollar Challenge and 'The Real Story' of what happended behind the scenes. This is the most amazing feat in the history of pocket billiards and upon returning to the Professional game I feel this historic story must be told. No one was ever told what really happened and you will hear how Earl Stickland trained for the event and what he did to win.

I'll make it back up to Minnesato one of these days, my sister used to live there, but moved to Geneva Switzerland a few months ago. Tell Jimmy "Hi" for me and I hope he's doing well and drop me a line on here or Face Book sometime, I"d love to hear from him. Tell everyone I"m training a lot of people on some really cool techniques, just click my athlete's page below.

 

[CreeDo]

Renfro (and others) have it. TV sells characters. Do a good enough job with promoting the characters, and you can engage people... Maybe to the point where the actual hitting of pool balls is secondary.

I remember the IPT trying to do this, telling the story of how Busty continued to play despite news of the death of his daughter. That's the kind of thing that makes you feel something for a player, vs. "last year this guy was in the running for the DCC all-around, and he's been hitting 'em good all day today."

This would help offset some of the sterile, bland feeling that Paul's been talking about, I think... give them a good backstory and skilled commentators who will inject something more interesting than "I think he has to hit this with inside and go around three rails".

 

[Paul Schofield]

You folks are off topic. You are talking about engaging an audience. I am talking about engaging the player that is sitting while his opponent shoots.

I have heard it said many times: "That is what is unique and beautiful about our game. If you don't like it, go do something else." It turns out, that is exactly what the public has done. Participation nationally is down more than 40% over the last five years.

 

[The Renfro]

You folks are off topic. You are talking about engaging an audience. I am talking about engaging the player that is sitting while his opponent shoots.

I have heard it said many times: "That is what is unique and beautiful about our game. If you don't like it, go do something else." It turns out, that is exactly what the public has done. Participation nationally is down more than 40% over the last five years.

Is that the problem or the symptom of the economy where nationally rooms have been closing their doors.??.. If there are no decent rooms then there has to be a decline in participation..... I would be more interested in numbers from metro area that haven't lost rooms to ever increasing costs...

I know this is a slippery slope and you could assume the rooms closed because participation was down... But was that a conscious choice by the patrons to stop or were they forced to stop to put gas in the tank and food on the table as their disposable income continued to shrink to nothing....

 

[CreeDo]

If participation is down sharply over a relatively short span of 5 years, why was pool popular in the first place before that? We had the exact same games with the exact same problems 10 years ago.

 

[Cuemaster98]

Engaging the audience is really the issue with pool. If you don't have the audience that understand how the game of pool is played or know when a good player make a safety or a good position shot...it can be boring to watch. The pool industry need to educate the general public on the game of pool and to demonstrate the skills required to perform a shot. etc.

Better yet, what in it for them if they play / watch this game?

I think IPT got it right with how they marketed the game of pool...unfortunately the money was not there. The point is pool need to be more engaging with the audience for it be more successful.

As for engaging the players...well..they just need to practice more and get better if they want a more engaging game .

The match on youtube between the two great, Eferen Reyes and Jim Rempe was a great match to watch (both players were very engaging throughout the match with their skills). Now, if they had slow motion, special sound effect etc...to engage the audience...back ground of player like in poker, etc..people might learn to appreciate the game more and appreciate what it take for the players to get to their level.

Pool is the best game/sport out there...it requires not only strategies but the skill to execute and it not bias like other game such as baseball, basketball, football etc where you have to be taller, stronger, etc. We have champion that are tall, short, fat, skinny...etc.. Now what other games or sports out there has this level playing field?

You folks are off topic. You are talking about engaging an audience. I am talking about engaging the player that is sitting while his opponent shoots.

I have heard it said many times: "That is what is unique and beautiful about our game. If you don't like it, go do something else." It turns out, that is exactly what the public has done. Participation nationally is down more than 40% over the last five years.

 

[The Renfro]

If participation is down sharply over a relatively short span of 5 years, why was pool popular in the first place before that? We had the exact same games with the exact same problems 10 years ago.

Definitely a valid point....

However the gaming systems and online participation has to be considered as a blow to pool rooms... No more arcade machines to subsidize the tables.... That HAS changed in the last decade...

Right now it's rough action for lots of entertainment choices...

I know of several golf courses and my favorite driving range closed it's doors... I think all recreational activities have taken a major hit if it had large percentages of low and middle class participants.... I think it is the economy as much as anything causing the numbers to dwindle.....

 

[Cuemaster98]

Agreed.

I think the industry as a whole need to market the game of pool differently and more effectively.

Duc.

Renfro (and others) have it. TV sells characters. Do a good enough job with promoting the characters, and you can engage people... Maybe to the point where the actual hitting of pool balls is secondary.

I remember the IPT trying to do this, telling the story of how Busty continued to play despite news of the death of his daughter. That's the kind of thing that makes you feel something for a player, vs. "last year this guy was in the running for the DCC all-around, and he's been hitting 'em good all day today."

This would help offset some of the sterile, bland feeling that Paul's been talking about, I think... give them a good backstory and skilled commentators who will inject something more interesting than "I think he has to hit this with inside and go around three rails".