It appears the person selling/producing fake Sugartrees is an AZ regular!

I'm not sure which part of this is difficult to understand. Yep, no smoking gun but there sure seems to be shell casings with danutz finger prints on them.

I don't care one way or the other, I don't need to see him executed. I simply know I wouldn't trade with him regardless of the deal. Thanks to the OP for outing this guy.
 
I never said the sneaky was a scruggs. I never said the cue with the gs on it was a gus, or even implied that it was. Cues were sold as unknowns, to happy customers. No apology necessary, movin on.....

I bought the fake st's at a tourney from a guy selling cues, i do'nt know who he is, but for his sake, i hope we never meet again.. That's all i'm gonna say about that, movin on......

I'm done with this B.S., think what you want. My feedback both here, and on the bay, speaks for itself. I must not be the horse f'r the op is claiming me to be, huh.......Even he has attested to the contrary, and he is the one not living up to his end of our deal, not me. Nuff said, movin on........
 
jimmyg said:
You actually refused to accept a return of a counterfeit cue that you sold to the person. Unbelievable.

PS: Your reason doesn't matter in the least.

J
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I wouldn't accept a return 1 month later, forget 5. Of course I wouldn't have fallen for a fake cue either but still.

You seem to be forgetting that he got screwed first, and unintentionally screwed someone else. You should focus your efforts on finding the guy who is causing the problem to begin with.
 
Kot_Bigemot said:
Ohplayer said:

Here is a thread regarding a Sugartree for sale where danutz asks the seller how the signature looks, and if he can get a picture of it. A fake Sugartree is sold by danutz later that month:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showt...orums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=273599
I can provide more info about this link since i am the buyer of this cue.
I purchased that cue back then. After the purchase i emailed Eric pictures of the cue and he confirmed that it was one of the first sneaky pete cues he made right after moving his shop to NM.
Have emails to back it up if anyone doubts my word.
But great thread.
SUBSCRIBED.
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So... it was a REAL Sugartree and not a fake as Ohplayer claimed it was?
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I am confused...what does Eric Crisp have to say about the matter of counterfeit ST cues? I don't know Eric, but I know some of you guys know him pretty well. Anyone been in contact with him to see what recourse he would want on all this?

Joe
 
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danutz said:
I never said the sneaky was a scruggs. I never said the cue with the gs on it was a gus, or even implied that it was. Cues were sold as unknowns, to happy customers. No apology necessary, movin on.....

I bought the fake st's at a tourney from a guy selling cues, i do'nt know who he is, but for his sake, i hope we never meet again.. That's all i'm gonna say about that, movin on......

I'm done with this B.S., think what you want. My feedback both here, and on the bay, speaks for itself. I must not be the horse f'r the op is claiming me to be, huh.......Even he has attested to the contrary, and he is the one not living up to his end of our deal, not me. Nuff said, movin on........
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If this is your final position you'll find many potential customers will also be "movin on":smile:

how many fake ST's did you buy from that dastardly bastard at the tourney?

can you describe them or post pics as a service to the community?

hoping your luck turns around when it comes to dabbling in the secondary cue circus
 
Ohplayer said:
I never said that one was a fake. I only posted pics to two Sugartree knockoffs. That was not one of them.
I simply referred to that listing since danutz asked about the signature and how it looked. It kind of points to him wanting to know how to counterfeit one.



Kot_Bigemot said:

i'm sorry...but it's look like that you give us a link on ebay that look like the 60 inch Purpleheart real sugartree that danutz sell for...

by the way, what is your real motivation to start this thread...you know that it will cause some problem to other member right....especially the owner of the real sugartree that you told us it's a fake cue...
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Mr. Edwards,

I will gladly return the E Custom Cue you built for full payment. I purchased the cue under the assumption that you were a standup guy. It almost made me sick to find out if came from Charlese9911 on eBay, because I knew that was who was selling the fake cues.

I put up a kind review as I said I would. Then, everything came tumbling down when I was alerted to who I was dealing with. I have since removed the review.

That is what gets me. You obviously can build a nice cue. I'm afraid that's how the fakes have gotten out there. You could have simply built and sold your cues on your own reputation, but you appear to have taken a quicker route to prosperity, and now it backfired.

danutz said:
Mr. Adkins (op), i request that you have this thread removed due to it's defamatory, and slanderous nature.

Secondly, you are in breach of our recent cue contract/deal. If you recall, i sold you a cue at a deeply discounted price, for a review of it, in lieu of full payment. 1 of the following 3 things will satisfy this breach.

1. Put the review back up, as it was. (preferred)
2. Send the remainder of payment.
3. Send the cue back. (monies already paid will be considered a non refundable deposit).

Thank you.
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There appears to be some confusion going on with the thread. The 2 fake cues I listed from eBay are indeed fake.

The Sugartree that was posted was to show that Danutz may have had some alterior motives for his question about the signature on a REAL Sugartree. The fakes started showing up after his question about the signatures.

The cue Kot_Bigemot sold was indeed a genuine Sugatree! I never stated or insinuated otherwise.
Let's please not steer this discussion off course.

As I said in my original/previous posts... I don't want anyone else getting ripped off. I almost lost $625. I know multiple other AZ'ers that also purchased the fake Sugatrees.




sengkun108 said:
Ohplayer said:
I never said that one was a fake. I only posted pics to two Sugartree knockoffs. That was not one of them.
I simply referred to that listing since danutz asked about the signature and how it looked. It kind of points to him wanting to know how to counterfeit one.



Kot_Bigemot said:
i'm sorry...but it's look like that you give us a link on ebay that look like the 60 inch Purpleheart real sugartree that danutz sell for...

by the way, what is your real motivation to start this thread...you know that it will cause some problem to other member right....especially the owner of the real sugartree that you told us it's a fake cue...
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Zerius said:
Kot_Bigemot said:
Ohplayer said:

Here is a thread regarding a Sugartree for sale where danutz asks the seller how the signature looks, and if he can get a picture of it. A fake Sugartree is sold by danutz later that month:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showt...orums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=273599

So... it was a REAL Sugartree and not a fake as Ohplayer claimed it was?
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It was insinuated that the reason he asked for a picture of the signature was so that he could use it as a guide to forge on to the fakes.

I could be wrong but that's how I read it.
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danutz said:
I never said the sneaky was a scruggs. I never said the cue with the gs on it was a gus, or even implied that it was. Cues were sold as unknowns, to happy customers. No apology necessary, movin on.....

I bought the fake st's at a tourney from a guy selling cues, i do'nt know who he is, but for his sake, i hope we never meet again.. That's all i'm gonna say about that, movin on......

I'm done with this B.S., think what you want. My feedback both here, and on the bay, speaks for itself. I must not be the horse f'r the op is claiming me to be, huh.......Even he has attested to the contrary, and he is the one not living up to his end of our deal, not me. Nuff said, movin on........
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I've tryed to look at this thread un-bias and opened minded and actually thought this whole thread was not fair to you in the least.
Now the only part of this thats getting to me is that you said
''I never said the sneaky was a Scruggs''cause even though you never
verbally said it,you know as a cue enthusiast what potential buyers of the
cue will think when you clearly showed the TS logo.Its now becoming
a word semantics game,and just because you don't say it doesn't
mean your not painting a picture that suggests the cue is something
its really not.
Most buyers may look at this and think''holy crap,this guy doesn't
know he's got a Scruggs''so they think there getting a $800 cue for
$300'' and in your mind your thinking''these guys think there getting a Scruggs for $300 but are getting a unknown cue thats worth $50''.
If you bought this stuff off one guy,you should want to run into
him again,I know I would be hunting him down like Elmer fudd on Buggs Bunny!!!
 
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Quoted and slightly edited for easier reading:

qbilder said:
There seems to be somebody signing "Sugartree" under the bumper of cues that I did not build. I do not know who it is or know why they're doing it, but they are succeeding in ripping people off. Ebay seems to be their trade avenue.

Let me be very clear about this. I only signed a few cues like that & they were all sneakies. Any P/J or more elaborate cue is signed with my signature. In 2006, I signed a few simple sneakies under the bumper. So if the cue is not a sneaky but is signed like that, then it's a fraud. Without giving a specific number, I signed less than 10 sneakies that way before I then began signing them the same way as any other cue.

Other things to look for are rings & joint pins & butt taper. My cues from 06' are very specific & easy to recognize if you know what to look for.

The sneakies have dash rings with 8 indexed dashes.

The height of the dash ring is 1/8".

The height of the accent rings are 1/16".

The joint pin is ALWAYS 3/8-10 flat thread & made by me so it looks different than anything else.

The nose of the pin is noticeably shorter than any other flat thread pin you see, and the center hole in the nose of the pin is larger.

Pins are 1.25" (1-1/4") long.

The butt taper is the most telling. The joint will be approx. .850" diameter & the taper grows quite quickly to 1.23", which then changes to a straight cylinder shape to the end of the butt. This straight area will be 6-8" long. If you have ever held a SW or BG then it's similar to that, possibly slightly even more exaggerated.

And one last thing to keep in mind is that MOST but not all of the very few sneakies I signed like that, were two pieces of exotic such as bocote on purpleheart or bocote on cocobolo, etc.

So in short, the cues being brought to my attention that are being sold as Sugartree cues, look absolutely nothing like the cues I signed like that. They are not even very good knock-offs, look nothing like what I have ever built.

They are simple cues being made by a hack & signed "Sugartree" in order to deceive a buyer into paying extra. My gut tells me that the cues I have seen look a lot like cues I have seen coming out of the Philippines, and like what I have seen being made by some of the newb builders that have been posting on here the last couple 2-3 years. That is only a hunch, gut feeling. It could be an honest builder selling cues to a dirtbag that signs them for resale. I simply do not know. All I can tell anybody is that they should be vigilant & do their homework before dropping cash on a cue signed with a sharpie under the bumper. It 'could' be real, but the chances are very slim. If it doesn't have the characteristics I outlined above then it's for certain not. Find out before you buy. In 2006 I was moving from Alaska to New Mexico, buying a new home & remodeling it before moving my pregnant wife into it. I didn't build but a few cues that year & only a tiny number were sneakies that were signed under the bumper. And pay attention. If the cue looks new then it is new. Brass joint pins get dull & even begin turning black over time with use. Pics of the cues I have seen look brand new with either a cheap brass pin like what Brianna sold, or a radial G10 pin, neither I have EVER used. Be smart, folks. I am sorry for anybody who has been duped.
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Ohplayer said:
There appears to be some confusion going on with the thread. The 2 fake cues I listed from eBay are indeed fake.

The Sugartree that was posted was to show that Danutz may have had some alterior motives for his question about the signature on a REAL Sugartree. The fakes started showing up after his question about the signatures.

The cue Kot_Bigemot sold was indeed a genuine Sugatree! I never stated or insinuated otherwise.
Let's please not steer this discussion off course.

As I said in my original/previous posts... I don't want anyone else getting ripped off. I almost lost $625. I know multiple other AZ'ers that also purchased the fake Sugatrees.




sengkun108 said:
Ohplayer said:
I never said that one was a fake. I only posted pics to two Sugartree knockoffs. That was not one of them.
I simply referred to that listing since danutz asked about the signature and how it looked. It kind of points to him wanting to know how to counterfeit one.
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Oh...So, i am NOT a scammer? Oh, thank God!
I knew it!!!! I knew it!!!!! I kinda look like a good guy too :grin::grin::grin::grin:
But, jokes aside, the maker of those fakes should be found and...what should be done to him? HMM...I know! HANG HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is some F...ED UP S..T!
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danutz said:
I never said the sneaky was a scruggs. I never said the cue with the gs on it was a gus, or even implied that it was. Cues were sold as unknowns, to happy customers. No apology necessary, movin on.....

I bought the fake st's at a tourney from a guy selling cues, i do'nt know who he is, but for his sake, i hope we never meet again.. That's all i'm gonna say about that, movin on......

I'm done with this B.S., think what you want. My feedback both here, and on the bay, speaks for itself. I must not be the horse f'r the op is claiming me to be, huh.......Even he has attested to the contrary, and he is the one not living up to his end of our deal, not me. Nuff said, movin on........
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OK, nuff said, except for the fact that two of my friends are out well over $600 for a fake purple heart Watertree or Sugargate cue.
What did you know and when did you know it...Howard Baker

They have made it right on their end, and the guy they got it from is trying to make good.
If they do end up stuck with this cue, they will not be selling it on AZ, Ebay, the pool hall, or at some tournament.

OK, nuff said
 
Ohplayer said:
Mr. Edwards,

I will gladly return the E Custom Cue you built for full payment. I purchased the cue under the assumption that you were a standup guy. It almost made me sick to find out if came from Charlese9911 on eBay, because I knew that was who was selling the fake cues.

I put up a kind review as I said I would. Then, everything came tumbling down when I was alerted to who I was dealing with. I have since removed the review.

That is what gets me. You obviously can build a nice cue. I'm afraid that's how the fakes have gotten out there. You could have simply built and sold your cues on your own reputation, but you appear to have taken a quicker route to prosperity, and now it backfired.
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Send it. You don't deserve it anyhow. Shipping is on you both ways, and any dings nicks, scratches will come out of your end. In future, you will get a cue of mine, on the second hand market, not from me.

"All came tumbling down when you found out you were dealing with me"? Look man, we both know our transaction was flawless. Fact is, there is 1 guy out there, let me repeat that, 1 guy out there, that has any right to say anything bad about a transaction with me. 1 more time, 1 F'n guy...Got it? It ain't you. This 1 guy would have got satisfaction too, if'n he had'nt chose to be an arse instead. He got that cue from me close to 6mos. ago. Let me ask you, if you sell a used item, do you take returns 5-6 mos. later? I told him i would. That's pretty strong, ain't it? He chose to go try and open p/p an fleabay cases instead......I told him good luck, and if he wants to be like that, he will get no help from me, in fact, i will fight him on it. His choice, not mine. So, you want to bring up these sucker cues (Ie: Fake Ts logo, etc.?) Idk, what you've been told, but my mom told me, there's a sucker born every minute, and i'll be damned, if i ain't gonna get they cash, if i can. Got it? Think of me what you will, but i'm a stand up guy, for the most part, but i'm also a MF'N hustler, born, and bred, don't get it twisted. I'd do the same thing to you on the table too. Cry about it, i really don't give a F%$K, Better ask somebody. You wanna act like a split, a gash, you know, a mF'n pu$$y? Be my guest, i put v-grooves in 4 fronts today, and did some veneer work on some point wood. WTF did you do? LOL, this thread reminds me of a song, goes a lil sumpin like this, "Biatches aint sh!t, but hoes, and tricks...Lick on deez nutz, and suck my D!ck.............:) what?
 
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My take from all of this is that the cues were fakes and the seller knew that. If i knew I had a fake cue in my hands, I would remove or mark over the fake logo or sig and then state clearly in my listing that the cues are NOT real.

He didn't clearly state in his ads that they were. He said that they were "unkown" cues and then happily posts up pics of the "GS", the "ST" sig and the "TS".

All on fake cues. :rolleyes:

Makes me wonder if he built the cues himself. All too shady for me.

I, for one am surely "MOVIN' ON" ......
 
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