It appears the person selling/producing fake Sugartrees is an AZ regular!

[CO Nineballer]

OK, I feel I have a right to have some input.......

I just got home from work and got a chance to read this thread, all I can say is unbelievable. I don't even know where to start. I am the person that got the FAKE one piece Purpleheart Sugartree from tman561, my name on AZ is CO Nineballer. I aquired the Sugartree along with a Josey Cue (not fake) from Mark T. (tman561) in a trade deal for a really nice Kikel. I honestly believe at the time of the trade, Mark had no idea that the cue was not a true Sugartree and I also assumed it to be authentic as I had no reason to think otherwise. Once we did the cue deal and I had the Josey and Sugartree in hand, I offered the Sugartree for sale here on AZ and sold the cue to OHPlayer for the price of $625. About a week after he received the cue I received an email from him stating that he wanted to return the cue as another AZ'er had contacted him and informed him that he was sure it was a fake Sugartree....of course my first thought was that I didn't know OHPlayer at all and I questioned his reasons behind his thoughts. He sent me copies of correspondence he had with Eric Crisp stating that the cue was indeed a counterfit, but I being maybe a little over cautious contacted Eric as well and sent him the pictures I had taken to sell the cue. Eric got back with me very promptly and let me know several reasons why he knew this was a fake and not one of his cues. Now, this put me in a bad place because in my opinion the only way to be successful in selling cues is to have a 100% feedback on this forum, there is a lot of trust involved to make this a viable forum to purchase/sell billiard related items. I did immediately refund the $625 to OHplayer as I felt he obviously had no fault in this and he shouldn't be out for something that I sold that was not the real thing wether I knew it or not. I am also working with tman561 to get $575 refunded from him which we both felt was a fair deal to both of us. (Just getting all the facts out there). I guess my questions or statements are:
Danutz - The 5 month return question is irrelevent in the fact that tman561 nor myself even knew it was a fake until it was confirmed by Eric once brought to our attention. I am not being so bold as to come out and say you are trying to scam anyone, but if you were on the other side and looked at all of the evidence, you too would certainly have to be sceptical at the least. It is pretty unfortunate if you truly are caught in the middle of this situation and are not at fault, but I think you could learn from all three of the latest parties that are involved, myself, tman561, and OHPlayer. Do what makes this right and refund the money that you sold the cue for and if you really did get taken on all of these cues, then do what you have to do to get your money back. The fact that you ended up with all of the "questionable" cues, you must have access to this person and could confront them about it. If you feel you have any "VALID" points or substantial proof that you are not at any fault, please feel free to PM me and I will call you directly or even set up a confernce call between yourself and other said parties to hear your side of it. In the meantime, all things seem to be pointing to you as the culprit. The fortunate thing about this great country is the freedom of speech and the right to defend yourself. Please feel free to do so, and CLEAR YOUR NAME!!!!

I wish you good luck in doing so and hope you have the morals to do what is right regardless if you are unlucky or not.

Greg Short
CO Nineballer

 

[TomHay]

I don't know much about this. I do see the seller on Ebay has over 100 @ !00% which indicates something honest.

I can tell you this. I had real stolen cues posted here on AZB for sale and almost got canned for saying so. My Statue of Limitations however had expired.

The Country I live in a man is innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

A report to ebay would help rather than trash someone you feel pretty sure about.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I read that Tom. Twas a load of crap if you ask me.
You if anyone should know that those blanks came from your old partner and
the status of them at the time of resale.

Funny how some get special privileges and others don't.

 

[danutz]

I just got home from work and got a chance to read this thread, all I can say is unbelievable. I don't even know where to start. I am the person that got the FAKE one piece Purpleheart Sugartree from tman561, my name on AZ is CO Nineballer. I aquired the Sugartree along with a Josey Cue (not fake) from Mark T. (tman561) in a trade deal for a really nice Kikel. I honestly believe at the time of the trade, Mark had no idea that the cue was not a true Sugartree and I also assumed it to be authentic as I had no reason to think otherwise. Once we did the cue deal and I had the Josey and Sugartree in hand, I offered the Sugartree for sale here on AZ and sold the cue to OHPlayer for the price of $625. About a week after he received the cue I received an email from him stating that he wanted to return the cue as another AZ'er had contacted him and informed him that he was sure it was a fake Sugartree....of course my first thought was that I didn't know OHPlayer at all and I questioned his reasons behind his thoughts. He sent me copies of correspondence he had with Eric Crisp stating that the cue was indeed a counterfit, but I being maybe a little over cautious contacted Eric as well and sent him the pictures I had taken to sell the cue. Eric got back with me very promptly and let me know several reasons why he knew this was a fake and not one of his cues. Now, this put me in a bad place because in my opinion the only way to be successful in selling cues is to have a 100% feedback on this forum, there is a lot of trust involved to make this a viable forum to purchase/sell billiard related items. I did immediately refund the $625 to OHplayer as I felt he obviously had no fault in this and he shouldn't be out for something that I sold that was not the real thing wether I knew it or not. I am also working with tman561 to get $575 refunded from him which we both felt was a fair deal to both of us. (Just getting all the facts out there). I guess my questions or statements are:
Danutz - The 5 month return question is irrelevent in the fact that tman561 nor myself even knew it was a fake until it was confirmed by Eric once brought to our attention. I am not being so bold as to come out and say you are trying to scam anyone, but if you were on the other side and looked at all of the evidence, you too would certainly have to be sceptical at the least. It is pretty unfortunate if you truly are caught in the middle of this situation and are not at fault, but I think you could learn from all three of the latest parties that are involved, myself, tman561, and OHPlayer. Do what makes this right and refund the money that you sold the cue for and if you really did get taken on all of these cues, then do what you have to do to get your money back. The fact that you ended up with all of the "questionable" cues, you must have access to this person and could confront them about it. If you feel you have any "VALID" points or substantial proof that you are not at any fault, please feel free to PM me and I will call you directly or even set up a confernce call between yourself and other said parties to hear your side of it. In the meantime, all things seem to be pointing to you as the culprit. The fortunate thing about this great country is the freedom of speech and the right to defend yourself. Please feel free to do so, and CLEAR YOUR NAME!!!!

I wish you good luck in doing so and hope you have the morals to do what is right regardless if you are unlucky or not.

Greg Short
CO Nineballer

Dude, i feel for ya bro, but saying 5 fn mos is irrelevant is rediculous. How about the fact that this cue has changed hands more than my underwear, in the past 5 mos? Again, FN ridiculous. You guys all want me to believe that you were all suckers, i was, yet you all bought, and sold the cue for 1/3-1/2 what the real thing would go for.......... I ain't stupid, at the very least, one of you knew what the f was up, and probably before i did.
I know some of you have the real deal as well, which ever one that is, idk, but they should be accepting at the very least, some of the responsibility, for reselling it anyways. iu did'nt know they were fakes until Eric posted on this site, that they were. at which point, thwe one i had control over, was promptly changed. I took his sig off, and sold it asd an unknown, to whom by the way, loves it. I thought they were real, because they played GOOD, and even fashioned one of my own cues after it, because i liked it so much. If'n you want me to buy the purpleheart cue back from tman, mayhap you should tell him to quit threatening, and get this thread gone, etc. Idk if that would even do it at this point, i might give him half what he paid for it after this thread, if that..Awe, F it, he ain't gettin sh!t from me. price of acting like a bleeding split!!!!!!! Stick a fn tampon in it, and take a midol

 

[Kot_Bigemot]

Dude, i feel for ya bro, but saying 5 fn mos is irrelevant is rediculous. How about the fact that this cue has changed hands more than my underwear, in the past 5 mos? Again, FN ridiculous. You guys all want me to believe that you were all suckers, i was, yet you all bought, and sold the cue for 1/3-1/2 what the real thing would go for.......... I ain't stupid, at the very least, one of you knew what the f was up, and probably before i did.
I know some of you have the real deal as well, which ever one that is, idk, but they should be accepting at the very least, some of the responsibility, for reselling it anyways. iu did'nt know they were fakes until Eric posted on this site, that they were. at which point, thwe one i had control over, was promptly changed. I took his sig off, and sold it asd an unknown, to whom by the way, loves it. I thought they were real, because they played GOOD, and even fashioned one of my own cues after it, because i liked it so much. If'n you want me to buy the purpleheart cue back from tman, mayhap you should tell him to quit threatening, and get this thread gone, etc. Idk if that would even do it at this point, i might give him half what he paid for it after this thread, if that..Awe, F it, he ain't gettin sh!t from me. price of acting like a bleeding split!!!!!!! Stick a fn tampon in it, and take a midol

WOW man! That really shows your character.
Can i ask you a question? Is lousy $600 all your good name is worth to you? I think...or better yet, I HOPE NOT.

P.S. Perhaps you should change your underwear more often?:grin:

 

[cuesblues]

Dude, i feel for ya bro, but saying 5 fn mos is irrelevant is rediculous. How about the fact that this cue has changed hands more than my underwear, in the past 5 mos? Again, FN ridiculous. You guys all want me to believe that you were all suckers, i was, yet you all bought, and sold the cue for 1/3-1/2 what the real thing would go for.......... I ain't stupid, at the very least, one of you knew what the f was up, and probably before i did.
I know some of you have the real deal as well, which ever one that is, idk, but they should be accepting at the very least, some of the responsibility, for reselling it anyways. iu did'nt know they were fakes until Eric posted on this site, that they were. at which point, thwe one i had control over, was promptly changed. I took his sig off, and sold it asd an unknown, to whom by the way, loves it. I thought they were real, because they played GOOD, and even fashioned one of my own cues after it, because i liked it so much. If'n you want me to buy the purpleheart cue back from tman, mayhap you should tell him to quit threatening, and get this thread gone, etc. Idk if that would even do it at this point, i might give him half what he paid for it after this thread, if that..Awe, F it, he ain't gettin sh!t from me. price of acting like a bleeding split!!!!!!! Stick a fn tampon in it, and take a midol

You must change your underwear every 50-days, if you need to or not.

The recent buying, selling, and trading of this cue, was all at or close to market pricing for a real plain jane Sugartree with one shaft.
I don't know what it sold for on Ebay, but CO Nineballer & OHplayer paid market value.

 

[danutz]

You must change your underwear every 50-days, if you need to or not.

The recent buying, selling, and trading of this cue, was all at or close to market pricing for a real plain jane Sugartree with one shaft.
I don't know what it sold for on Ebay, but CO Nineballer & OHplayer paid market value.

Wrong.......I sold it for $500, they paid 2-300 or more less than market. Try again.

 

[danutz]

WOW man! That really shows your character.
Can i ask you a question? Is lousy $600 all your good name is worth to you? I think...or better yet, I HOPE NOT.

P.S. Perhaps you should change your underwear more often?:grin:

Oh, i got character, believe that sh!t. What i don't have, is respect for grown a$$ men, that act like little B######, especially 6 mos. down the road. Creeping a bit, if you ask me...........

 

[Kot_Bigemot]

Oh, i got character, believe that sh!t. What i don't have, is respect for grown a$$ men, that act like little B######, especially 6 mos. down the road. Creeping a bit, if you ask me...........

Perhaps he does act like that but, at this point you must make it right. Flat out. No questions.
Was it intentional or not, you knew it was a fake or not, it does not matter. What DOES MATTER is the fact that you sold a fake. And the guy bought a fake from you. Regardless of how long ago it happened.
When there is a recall on your Toyota or Ford, they do not tell you how long it has been since you bought the car right? They replace parts and EAT THE COST.
So, you do as you wish. I am in no position to tell you what to do. But I was asked about it, I'd say - man up and do what is right.
Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you.:grin:

 

[Kot_Bigemot]

Oh, i got character, believe that sh!t. What i don't have, is respect for grown a$$ men, that act like little B######, especially 6 mos. down the road. Creeping a bit, if you ask me...........

And by the way, you do not have to respect him. But it not his fault he bought a fake based on your word. You have to agree with that man.

 

[cuesblues]

Wrong.......I sold it for $500, they paid 2-300 or more less than market. Try again.

What you sold a fake cue on Ebay for is irrelevant.
A real pj Sugartree from Eric is $750, and they sell for around $800.
Eric's shafts are not cheap, so $625 for a used pj Sugartree with 1-shaft is close.
Your Faketree had one shaft.
I have a nice new real Sugartree with 2-shafts I will sell for $800.

 

[danutz]

Perhaps he does act like that but, at this point you must make it right. Flat out. No questions.
Was it intentional or not, you knew it was a fake or not, it does not matter. What DOES MATTER is the fact that you sold a fake. And the guy bought a fake from you. Regardless of how long ago it happened.
When there is a recall on your Toyota or Ford, they do not tell you how long it has been since you bought the car right? They replace parts and EAT THE COST.
So, you do as you wish. I am in no position to tell you what to do. But I was asked about it, I'd say - man up and do what is right.
Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you.:grin:

Fair enough, but this thread will cost me untold thousands in the future, so the way i see it, he owes me, not the other way around.

 

[CO Nineballer]

OK I tried..

Ok Danutz, I tried to go the decent route, but you are obviously kind of a piece of shit!!!!!!

I figured the Sugartree at $600 in the trade deal with tman, and I sold it for $625. I just told you that and somehow you either can't read any better than you can spell, or you can't comprehend very well. By the way, the person that you NEED to refund the money to is not myself or OHPlayer whom started this thread. You keep ranting that he shouldn't have posted it and that you aren't giving him "Shit", big surprise there, but he isn't the one you need to refund. We all did the right thing and refunded the money, which you obviously have zero intentions of doing. As far as the 5 months being irrelevant, WRONG. Like it or not, OHPlayer and myself only recently found out about the cue being a fake. I have no reason to think otherwise from tman561 until I hear back from him. Ultimately, I have the cue in my possesion at this time. If you don't want to make it right with everyone including tman (who may or may not of even seen this yet), you can just paypal me $500, I will send you the cue, eat the other $125 I am out and make it square with tman. I am not sure what else I can offer to make it easier for you to clear your name and get square on this deal. Like I said, the offer is open for us to talk to directly, or I can stop in on my way through to Missouri, I go right by you, and we can try to square it up. Or I know a ton of players and pool room owners in the KC area, I can send the cue to one of them and you can pick it up and give them the money. I don't really care how you get square and I am even willing to take it in the shorts for some cash, just to give you a chance to make this deal square. If you have absolutely no intentions of making it right, just come out and say that you are not interested at all in doing so, and tman561 can go through the proper channels and file a claim against you through ebay for misrepresentation.

Anyone questioning if this was represented as a Real Sugartree can click on this link and see the original add you posted stating that it was a SUGARTREE, not resembles, looks like, might be, could be......says "Here's a nice Purpleheart Sugartree" What was the question again????

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAP...%2B0ywkVyuymQKiniWbMo%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Thanks,
Greg

 

[Kot_Bigemot]

Fair enough, but this thread will cost me untold thousands in the future, so the way i see it, he owes me, not the other way around.

Oh, do not even go there man. Possible losses. PLEASE!!!!!!!!
Are you a man or a child for God's sake!!!
Then why do not you go to the person that you got the stick from and try to collect from him your possible future losses? You know what i mean?
I am sorry but, that is a lame excuse.

 

[CO Nineballer]

Help posting link??

I have a link to the original listing on ebay, but I can't put it on here for some reason, if anyone knows how to get this system to let you add a link, please let me know and I will PM them the complete link for everyone to see.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[danutz]

Ok Danutz, I tried to go the decent route, but you are obviously kind of a piece of shit!!!!!!

I figured the Sugartree at $600 in the trade deal with tman, and I sold it for $625. I just told you that and somehow you either can't read any better than you can spell, or you can't comprehend very well. By the way, the person that you NEED to refund the money to is not myself or OHPlayer whom started this thread. You keep ranting that he shouldn't have posted it and that you aren't giving him "Shit", big surprise there, but he isn't the one you need to refund. We all did the right thing and refunded the money, which you obviously have zero intentions of doing. As far as the 5 months being irrelevant, WRONG. Like it or not, OHPlayer and myself only recently found out about the cue being a fake. I have no reason to think otherwise from tman561 until I hear back from him. Ultimately, I have the cue in my possesion at this time. If you don't want to make it right with everyone including tman (who may or may not of even seen this yet), you can just paypal me $500, I will send you the cue, eat the other $125 I am out and make it square with tman. I am not sure what else I can offer to make it easier for you to clear your name and get square on this deal. Like I said, the offer is open for us to talk to directly, or I can stop in on my way through to Missouri, I go right by you, and we can try to square it up. Or I know a ton of players and pool room owners in the KC area, I can send the cue to one of them and you can pick it up and give them the money. I don't really care how you get square and I am even willing to take it in the shorts for some cash, just to give you a chance to make this deal square. If you have absolutely no intentions of making it right, just come out and say that you are not interested at all in doing so, and tman561 can go through the proper channels and file a claim against you through ebay for misrepresentation.

Anyone questioning if this was represented as a Real Sugartree can click on this link and see the original add you posted stating that it was a SUGARTREE, not resembles, looks like, might be, could be......says "Here's a nice Purpleheart Sugartree" What was the question again????

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAP...%2B0ywkVyuymQKiniWbMo%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


Thanks,
Greg

Oh, i can just pay you $500, which is what i sold it for 5-6 mos ago, huh? how FN generous of you...... You say you've got the cue in your posession, huh? I'm sure that will go over real well in the case he can't even start I did'nt sell you the cue, you're twice removed, and playa is thrice removed, get a grip on reality. I don't owe either of you
SH!T. I have a good idea for the 3 of you, why don't you split custody of it, you all get it for 4mos. a year.LOL. All of you have lost any chance of me buying this cue back. I will not stand for being called out in public like this, for doing nothing more than what was done to me, and done to you, and so on. Forget it. Ain't happening. if you care to try and straighten me out when you're passing thru wichita, let me know. i'm not hard to find, nor am i scared Trying to hold a 4x removed owner of anything, responsible for something, is downright laughable. I'll give you $200 for it right now. Yes, or no.?

 

[charlieeeh]

Pretty sure "thousands" is an underestimate of the amount of business you've lost.

Actually, it might be an overestimate as the stuff you build are no longer worth anything anyway.

Way to conduct yourself like a "grown ass man".

 

[CO Nineballer]

Tell you what...

I think I have been fair and offered fair ways for you to square the deal. I DEFINATELY have better things to do that sit and argue with some Moron on a forum over $500. I never said anything about threatening you or anything of the sort. I was trying to do whatever possible to make it feasible for you to square the deal. You sure seem to be super defensive, and unwilling to work with for someone that has nothing to hide??
I am a firm believer in what comes around goes around, so hopefully if you are full of it, you will receive what you deserve somehow down the road. Either way, I will go ahead and return the cue to tman, and hopefully he can pursue this accordingly. I already told you we were in the process of him squaring his end of the deal, we made a deal that I would return the cue upon full refund payment from him. Once again you don't comprehend or listen very well. I looked at his profile, and he hasnt' even been on AZ since last Wednesday, hopefully he will chime in and let us know even more insite, in the meantime I am going to go spend my time in a way, much more valuable than arguing with someone who obviously has no sense of right or wrong. Have a good night Danutz!!!! Sleep Well.

 

[Kot_Bigemot]

Pretty sure "thousands" is an underestimate of the amount of business you've lost.

Actually, it might be an overestimate as the stuff you build are no longer worth anything anyway.

Way to conduct yourself like a "grown ass man".

I second that.
After evaluating his replies, i am pretty sure we are dealing with "nickel and dimer". A small timer to whom $600 is more important than his good name and reputation.
So, it is best to take a loss and make sure that his future customers are aware of this thread. At least read it and then decide to deal with him or not.
They have the right to know everything.
I am done posting here. Even if he comes at me with pile of $hit.

 

[Eric.]

So, you want to bring up these sucker cues (Ie: Fake Ts logo, etc.?) Idk, what you've been told, but my mom told me, there's a sucker born every minute, and i'll be damned, if i ain't gonna get they cash, if i can. Got it? Think of me what you will, but i'm a stand up guy, for the most part, but i'm also a MF'N hustler, born, and bred, don't get it twisted. I'd do the same thing to you on the table too.

Priceless Freudian slip.

I know there are some Nigerians that can use a guy like this, to help send emails promising millions of dollars to some sucker that would help them....


Eric