WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

...someone private messaged me that you sit around playing VIDEO POOL and Knock people all day on azbilliards forums.
Plenty of people here know that's not true, CJ. I play real competitive pool every day (although not at your level), and try to only knock misinformation here, not people.

If you took some of the criticism you get here a little more seriously (and some of the "private messages" you receive a lot less seriously), you'd be doing a favor to those here who blindly trust the things you say.

pj
chgo
 
i agree, someone get this done. It doesn't even need to be TAR, anyone who wants to stream it.

Its pretty clear by following these posts, Scott Lee would have to pass his student CJ's way after teaching him everything he knows. CJ is the type of guy that would take that said student to the next level with his experience and techniques. CJ is more for the advance student or very good league player that just cant get better and he will take him over the hump.

my 2 cents
 
Sports/Games are evolving because of dividing and systematically improving

I suppose, because you are an forum ingenue, this is forgivable, but you should be smart enough to figure out that people PM all kinds of foolish things to one another here. My point being that just because someone PMs you something does not make it true nor worthy of repeating.

When you've been here longer you'll learn that there are folks here with all kinds of agendas, motives, goals, aspirations, grudges, friends, and enemies. Backstabbing someone via PM is just par for the course ;-)

Rather than fall victim to taking rumors, innuendoes, an accusations at face value I would suggest you try providing honest and civil participation, if that's possible...

I'd also suggest losing the bumper stickers and fortune cookie logic, but that's just me.

Lou Figueroa

I appreciate your good intentioned advice as usual (notice I didn't use "we"). I'm ok with not excepting new ways of doing things or just having the opinion that "conventional ways are best" and leaving it at that. In many ways that makes life easier for those types of people and it's "reasonable".

My techniques are not conventional and unless someone tries them or incorporates parts of them they can't possibly know if they're effective. I know by the way people respond to me if they have tried them or not.

You may think that's "unreasonable", but I assure you I know the conventional methods AND have experimented with them through the years. I just need more and I need to use more "powerful" techniques than what conventional wisdom was offering.

I looked to guys like Omaha John, Matlock, Hall, Crane (Billy Johnson), and Jr Weldon for techniques and guidance. I incorporated them with Golf Instruction (Hank Haney, Tiger Woods coach) with Hank, who taught me about the wrist motion in golf and how it was the same as martial arts AND my pool stroke.

Sports/Games are evolving because of dividing and systematically improving the different components of the swings. Pool is still using "conventional methods" and even though the do work, the also can and will be improved.

The way the wrists/fingers/hands move in relationship to the stroke is something I know will give players positive results. Of course if someone doesn't have the ambition to try them that's their own business.

I'm only concerned with sharing information that enhances someone's REAL game of pool. Playing any other "games" is not in my agenda and playing "Video Pool" or "heckle the pro" is childish behavior.

On a positive note, I just got off the phone with Johnny Archer and I'm really excited about this years Mosconi Cup and I thank all of you for your support for THE TEAM. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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I'm glad you posted this, CJ. I have been using this type of stroke for the past few months, and thought I was resorting to an aberration that would eventually need to be corrected. But since I started locking my wrist forward (I also rotate my wrist a little so that the 'ball' of my index finger rests almost on the top of the grip), I have been seeing huge leaps forward in my game. My stroke is straighter than it has ever been, and I am not losing anything in the transition from the 'normal' slip stroke. I have just as much power, just as much fine touch, and now I feel like my stroke is straighter.

I'll try an post a video later tonight to check to see if this is indeed what you are speaking of.
 
That's a Great Idea - You Saw The Movie Right???

I would like to see a TAR contest between CJ and Scott Lee

By Michael P. Geffner
IT HAPPENED IN PITTSBURGH in 1986, back when The Color of Money, a movie about a young pool shark, had hit theaters and Carson “CJ” Wiley was himself hustling pool on the road—back when, on a moment’s notice, he would drive hundreds of miles to some backwoods dive on a trip that someone with wads of cash gambled big-time there. On that particular night, Wiley wore fake glasses and assumed one of three aliases, Mike from Indiana. His mark was the owner of a restaurant, a bearded man with receding jet-black hair who led him up a dark staircase to a private pool table on the second floor.
“And the guy is smiling this real goofy smile,” Wiley recalls today, chuckling hard before dragging deeply on a Marlboro Light. “’It’s just like in the movie,’ he says. ‘You saw the movie right?’ And I nod my head but don’t really say anything. Then he says, ‘Oh, boy, I love action. I love playing pool for money. I even love betting on other players. You saw the movie right?’ And I nod again. And we begin playing some nine ball, and I find out right away that this guy can’t play at all. I mean, not a lick. So after I’m done beating him for a few hundred, he has me play nearly everybody in the building. I end up beating his bartender, his cook, his dishwasher, five locals, and finally, the best player in town—and he staked every one of them. By the time he quit, I had him stuck for about seven thousand dollars. And he says to me, not smiling anymore, ‘You know kid, you played a lot better at the end than you did at the beginning.’ And I look him square in the eyes and say, ‘Well, you saw the movie, right?’”

He continued to believe that for five more years, but he ultimately decided there were no challenges left on the road. With some trepidation he finally went straight and joined the now defunct Men’s Professional Billiard Association. “I really didn’t know if I could compete with the best players in the world,” he couldn’t crush mentally.” Of course, in his first pro tournament, the Dufferin Nine-Ball Classic in Toronto, he beat four world-class players in a single day: Earl “the pearl” Strickland, Efren “the Magician” Reyes, Jim “King James” Rempe, and “Spanish Mike” Lebron. Overall, he finished in fourth place, earned $3,500, and afterward veteran Cecil “Buddy” Hall gushingly labeled him “the best unknown player in the world.” Says Wiley with a grin: “I played my game and it held up. I went in half-cocked and I came out full cocked.”
That first year, he managed to crack the top ten in the national rankings. He moved to seventh in 1992, fifth in 1994, and fourth in 1995. Then in December 1995, unhappy with the politics of the men’s pro pool tour, he abruptly quit and a month later started a new one, the professional CueSports Association (PCA). “I just can’t,” he says. That year he captured first place—and a purse of $88,500, a U.S. record—in the ESPN World Open Billiards Championship; he also won the first-ever PCA tour stop, the Dallas Million-Dollar Challenge, and was eventually named player of the year by Pool and Billiard magazine.
Clearly he’s got something—but what? I wanted to see it for myself. So at eleven o’clock on a Monday night, the two of us walked over to a pool room on Manhattan’s Upper East Side, a place a little smaller than CJ’s Billiard Palace, a room Wiley owns back home near White Rock Lake. Decked out in a dark pin-striped suit, he began by casually shooting on a table that was dimly lit, though he didn’t come close to missing a ball. When it was time to share his secret, he set up a long, sharp cut shot on the six ball. “Now watch. I’m going to shoot this shot at o’clock,” he said, bending down in a square, powerful-looking crouch. I watched. He popped his heavy thud of a stroke, and the ball split the right corner pocket.
I didn’t really get it; Wiley knew instantly. “Don’t you see?” he asked with some frustration. “With two round objects, it sets up an optical illusion. You can’t aim for a spot on a round object and hit it with another round object. It’s an impossibility. So what I do is look at the two balls as straight lines that bisect.” The explanation only made my head spin faster.
Wiley set up another shot, putting the eight ball on the head spot and the cue ball near the back rail. The balls were about six feet apart—to my mind, a much more difficult shot thank the first one. Yet, surprisingly, he said, “Same shot. Still one o’clock.” And again he knocked it down as if the ball had been magnetically pulled to the center of the pocket.
He sighed dismissively and waved a limp arm in my direction. “Man, this game’s so easy it’s not even funny—once you figure it out,” he said with a sniff. Then, looking straight into my unfocused eyes, he delivered his knew-buckling punch line. “At least it is for me.”

'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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Hang in there CJ.

If it were me, I just would not respond to folks that were not making a contibution to the original thread content.

Your right, some of us out here will try anything to improve our fundementals.

I feel very fortunate to have received advice from an accomplished pro player and champion.

Unless Strickland, Hall, Varner, Hopkins and Archer jump in here and state that what you suggest is all BS I'll be here to the end. :)

Thanks Again.

John
 
the tip go slightly downward on a perfectly stright "track/slot"

I'm glad you posted this, CJ. I have been using this type of stroke for the past few months, and thought I was resorting to an aberration that would eventually need to be corrected. But since I started locking my wrist forward (I also rotate my wrist a little so that the 'ball' of my index finger rests almost on the top of the grip), I have been seeing huge leaps forward in my game. My stroke is straighter than it has ever been, and I am not losing anything in the transition from the 'normal' slip stroke. I have just as much power, just as much fine touch, and now I feel like my stroke is straighter.

I'll try an post a video later tonight to check to see if this is indeed what you are speaking of.

Yes, you are on the right "track". The idea is to create a "slot/track" with your wrist/fingers/hand so that the cue can ONLY go straight and not go "off track" to the left or right.

The motion is not easily detected with the naked eye, but must have the same components that are used in hammering a nail. The Cue becomes a "delivery system" for the tip and transfers maximum force to the cue ball.

To me it feels like a "lever action" (even though this isn't literal), and it makes the tip go slightly downward on a perfectly stright "track/slot". Then your confidence starts to SOAR because you suddenly "Real Eyes" you are putting yourself into a position to positively hit the cue ball straight. And that is the foundation of a GREAT POOL GAME. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
CJ...This is disturbing. You don't know Pat at all, yet you choose to demean him with your constant criticism. While PJ certainly doesn't play at your level (who does?), he is no banger, and plays quite well. There are many here who have played him, and know him personally...including me. Most of what you post here seems to suggest that the average joe should "reach for the stars" and do whatever it takes to become a pro. Why? To what end? The end doesn't justify the means for MOST of us here...I'm not talking about higher level players who wish to strive for that ethereal "top of the mountain" you speak so much about.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Sorry did I disturb your "VIDEO POOL", everyone knows you can't play on a pool table. :rotflmao1: :groucho:
VideoPool(ABCSoft).jpg
JUST LIKE THIS THREAD pj
 
CJ, why do you post "The game is the teacher" to every post you make? It's EXTREMELY annoying.

Thank you for posting your secrets. It may be true, I don't know. And I can't even try it because after reading all this thread, I just don't understand what you mean. And I think that's why you should have worked more on your original post. Make it more easy to understand, or provide some video material.

As you said, it cannot be seen by the naked human eye. Okay - use a recording device and then use a video editing program (if you don't have the experience, I am happy to help). You don't need hi-speed filming equipment.

What I really believe, is, that the HUUUUUUUUGE amount of hard work you have put into your game to become a great player that you are, is the reason why you can move the white around so much with little effort. The wrist punch or whatever may just be a bad habit or a fruit of your imagination.

Still, not saying there is 0% chance there is something to it, but you should just simply prove it.

Chipping/clicking/breaking your wrist during your stroke advice may actually do some bad to the strokes of people who try it, if they don't understand fully what you mean.

Wish you well,
Margus.
 
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You should take your own advice. You have NEVER even tried anything I've suggested. I wondered why and then someone private messaged me that you sit around playing VIDEO POOL and Knock people all day on azbilliards forums. Get a life pj, it's time to mature in the REAL game of pool.

These Techniques and Systems are NOT for you or any "Keyboard Pool Player", it's for serious Players. You aren't fooling anyone, we all know you don't play, why try to spoil it for others that want to get better and enjoy The REAL Game more. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Kewl, CJ is starting to show his true colors. Why don't you go ahead and tell all of us wannabe bangers what you really think of us CJ? Sorry dude, not everyone can be the second coming of Chuck Norris like yourself.
 
Pay Up Sucker...Not quite that clear, as I have been able help even pro players achieve better results. Also, I have never been shy about suggesting "playing lessons" from 'big name' pro players...once someone has developed a bulletproof stroke. There are a lot of 'advanced' players who post here, that will tell you quite frankly that they learned something from me that they didn't know before...and it helped them to play better.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Its pretty clear by following these posts, Scott Lee would have to pass his student CJ's way after teaching him everything he knows. CJ is the type of guy that would take that said student to the next level with his experience and techniques. CJ is more for the advance student or very good league player that just cant get better and he will take him over the hump.

my 2 cents
 
Just exactly who (among the "experts") is saying there's no wrist involvement in the stroke? Nobody, is the answer. What several of us have posted is the the "wrist flick" doesn't substancially change the outcome of the stroke...power, spin, or otherwise. That's a fact. The wrist, when allowed, flexes naturally, as part of the backswing and forward stroke. You can debate it all you like, but it doesn't change the physics.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

You can get tremendous power in your stroke from your wrist. Try this, get down to shoot with the tip of cue almost touching the cue ball and your arm hanging at 90 degrees. Now shoot the shot using only your wrist. I think you will be surprised with how much power you can get in a 2 inch stroke.
 
you've been "showcasing" a sentence to mediocrity and "pool purgatory"

CJ...This is disturbing. You don't know Pat at all, yet you choose to demean him with your constant criticism. While PJ certainly doesn't play at your level (who does?), he is no banger, and plays quite well. There are many here who have played him, and know him personally...including me. Most of what you post here seems to suggest that the average joe should "reach for the stars" and do whatever it takes to become a pro. Why? To what end? The end doesn't justify the means for MOST of us here...I'm not talking about higher level players who wish to strive for that ethereal "top of the mountain" you speak so much about.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I'm suggesting that people have an option of learning what I know, not just what you know.

If someone wants to reach for the stars I can help them in their journey and I will defend their right to do so. That's what made this Country great is people that, despite critics trying to keep them down, reached for the stars and hit the moon, rather than reach for the earth and fall in the mud.



"that ethereal "top of the mountain" you speak so much about." scott lee

I haven't spoke of the "top of the mountain" for any "average joe" or anyone else for that matter. Real Eyes Realize your Real Lies

I don't look at people or players like they're "average joes" or average anything. I want to help people/players, with no regard to any personal characteristic. I freely help male / female and all ethenisities.

I have over 7000 subscribers/friends on Face Book and a internet reach of 70,000 people/players a week (total web sites/face book/azbilliards/ip). I share this information because I WANT TO, not because I have to. I wanted to be the "exception to the rule" and freely give everything I have for 3 years (I stated this from the very beginning on here) and see what happened.

I work for THE GAME OF POOL, no one else. I have ONE AGENDA and that's to represent Pool, speak with intelligence about pool, and use my expertice to help Pool and Professional Pool Players reach a highter level. I don't care how many people heckle me or argue with me about "systems and techniques", I only answer to the Game.

The things I speak of are tried and true and work for me. Will they work for the "average joe"?....well, I think everyone has the right to try anything they choose, to create their own style of game. There is no one way, there's blend of 3 major themes and a few variations.

I think it's total BS that you or anyone like you is really trying to "protect the average joe" from me and my systems and techniques. You are just worried that everyone is going to "REAL EYES" that the stuff you've been "showcasing" is nothing but a sentence to mediocrity and "pool purgatory". ' :groucho: 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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I'm suggesting that people have an option of learning what I know, not just what you know.

If someone wants to reach for the stars I can help them in their journey and I will defend their right to do so. That's what made this Country great is people that, despite critics trying to keep them down, reached for the stars and hit the moon, rather than reach for the earth and fall in the mud.



"that ethereal "top of the mountain" you speak so much about." scott lee

I haven't spoke of the "top of the mountain" for any "average joe" or anyone else for that matter. Real Eyes Realize your Real Lies

I don't look at people or players like they're "average joes" or average anything. I want to help people/players, with no regard to any personal characteristic. I feely help male female and all ethenisities.

I have over 7000 friends on Face Book and a internet reach of 70,000 people/players a week. I share this information because I WANT TO, not because I have to. I wanted to be the "exception to the rule" and freely give everything I have for 3 years (I stated this from the very beginning on here) and see what happened.

I work for THE GAME OF POOL, no one else. I have ONE AGENDA and that's to represent Pool, speak with intelligence about pool, and use my expertice to help Pool and Professional Pool Players reach a highter level. I don't care how many people heckle me or argue with me about "systems and techniques", I only answer to the Game.

The things I speak of are tried and true and work for me. Will they work for the "average joe"?....well, I think everyone has the right to try anything they choose, to create their own style of game. There is no one way, there's blend of 3 major themes and a few variations.

I think it's total BS that you or anyone like you is really trying to "protect the average joe" from me and my systems and techniques. You are just worried that everyone is going to "REAL EYES" that the stuff you've been "showcasing" is nothing but a sentence to mediocrity and "pool purgatory". ' :groucho: 'The Game is the Teacher'

Tap! Tap! Tap!

He brought it upon himself...again.
 
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Dude, you seriously can't roll out all that bullshit and keep a straight face can you? If so, you really should be playing poker, not pool. Get your ego under control CJ, you're starting to come apart and it is going to cost you DVD sales down the road.

I'm suggesting that people have an option of learning what I know, not just what you know.

If someone wants to reach for the stars I can help them in their journey and I will defend their right to do so. That's what made this Country great is people that, despite critics trying to keep them down, reached for the stars and hit the moon, rather than reach for the earth and fall in the mud.



"that ethereal "top of the mountain" you speak so much about." scott lee

I haven't spoke of the "top of the mountain" for any "average joe" or anyone else for that matter. Real Eyes Realize your Real Lies

I don't look at people or players like they're "average joes" or average anything. I want to help people/players, with no regard to any personal characteristic. I freely help male / female and all ethenisities.

I have over 7000 subscribers/friends on Face Book and a internet reach of 70,000 people/players a week (total web sites/face book/azbilliards/ip). I share this information because I WANT TO, not because I have to. I wanted to be the "exception to the rule" and freely give everything I have for 3 years (I stated this from the very beginning on here) and see what happened.

I work for THE GAME OF POOL, no one else. I have ONE AGENDA and that's to represent Pool, speak with intelligence about pool, and use my expertice to help Pool and Professional Pool Players reach a highter level. I don't care how many people heckle me or argue with me about "systems and techniques", I only answer to the Game.

The things I speak of are tried and true and work for me. Will they work for the "average joe"?....well, I think everyone has the right to try anything they choose, to create their own style of game. There is no one way, there's blend of 3 major themes and a few variations.

I think it's total BS that you or anyone like you is really trying to "protect the average joe" from me and my systems and techniques. You are just worried that everyone is going to "REAL EYES" that the stuff you've been "showcasing" is nothing but a sentence to mediocrity and "pool purgatory". ' :groucho: 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
I'm suggesting that people have an option of learning what I know, not just what you know.

If someone wants to reach for the stars I can help them in their journey and I will defend their right to do so. That's what made this Country great is people that, despite critics trying to keep them down, reached for the stars and hit the moon, rather than reach for the earth and fall in the mud.



"that ethereal "top of the mountain" you speak so much about." scott lee

I haven't spoke of the "top of the mountain" for any "average joe" or anyone else for that matter. Real Eyes Realize your Real Lies

I don't look at people or players like they're "average joes" or average anything. I want to help people/players, with no regard to any personal characteristic. I freely help male / female and all ethenisities.

I have over 7000 subscribers/friends on Face Book and a internet reach of 70,000 people/players a week (total web sites/face book/azbilliards/ip). I share this information because I WANT TO, not because I have to. I wanted to be the "exception to the rule" and freely give everything I have for 3 years (I stated this from the very beginning on here) and see what happened.

I work for THE GAME OF POOL, no one else. I have ONE AGENDA and that's to represent Pool, speak with intelligence about pool, and use my expertice to help Pool and Professional Pool Players reach a highter level. I don't care how many people heckle me or argue with me about "systems and techniques", I only answer to the Game.

The things I speak of are tried and true and work for me. Will they work for the "average joe"?....well, I think everyone has the right to try anything they choose, to create their own style of game. There is no one way, there's blend of 3 major themes and a few variations.

I think it's total BS that you or anyone like you is really trying to "protect the average joe" from me and my systems and techniques. You are just worried that everyone is going to "REAL EYES" that the stuff you've been "showcasing" is nothing but a sentence to mediocrity and "pool purgatory". ' :groucho: 'The Game is the Teacher'

You say that, and really have no idea what he teaches, or why, or how. Yeah, that's "real eyes" for you. If you want to instruct, then at least learn how to explain things so people can understand what in the world you are talking about. Your "wrist thing" is not unique to you. As others have already stated, it has been around for ages. You can't describe it because you aren't sure yourself just what you are doing. It's not some great hidden secret, but one would think you want to keep it one the way you try and describe it. The how and why of it is something that can be simply described in a paragraph or two. It took me forever to figure out what in the world you were getting at all this time, then it finally hit me. Same thing a lot of people already do.
 
The first 20 people that respond to this post I will send you a DVD absolutely free

Dude, you seriously can't roll out all that bullshit and keep a straight face can you? If so, you really should be playing poker, not pool. Get your ego under control CJ, you're starting to come apart and it is going to cost you DVD sales down the road.

Dude, you still don't get it do you?

The first 20 people that respond to this post I will send you a DVD absolutely free AND I"ll pay for the shipping and handling.

Selling DVD's is nothing more than a way to get the information out in video form so I don't have to write a thousand words to descibe these systems and techniques.

Just go to my ATHLETES Face Book Page and send my a Private Message with your name and address and I'll send them out ASAP.

I want everyone to have a chance to learn The Truth about pocket billiards. and The Truth is Free. Here's the link if you want a FREE DVD

CJ's Ultimate Pool Secrets FREE DVD FOR AZBILLIARDS
 
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