WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

Autist said:
Why the left foot? Most snooker players have their RIGHT foot(if right handed), the chin, and bridge hand all on the same line.
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It was a simple brain-typo:

I MAKE SURE my left foot is parallel to the "Line of the Shot".

...

the left foot MUST be on the "Line of the Shot"
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Obviously he meant what he said the first time (parallel).

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Scott's a well known and highly respected pool instructor, CJ, with literally hundreds of satisfied customers across the country. Many more pool players read here than post here, and I'll bet many of them know that fact, lots of them from personal experience with him.

I'm sure all of those, and many more who don't know Scott but know his reputation, realize (without the cute spelling) that you're way off base and simply being spiteful because he doesn't get in line with a few here to kiss your championship ring and take everything you say as gospel. He's very well qualified to know whether or not somebody is making sense, another thing many who read here know about him. (And, by the way, Scott's probably the most well known of the Cue-Tech instructors - I thought you said you knew and respected Randy G and his pool school.)

You seem to want to recreate a public image for yourself. Maybe you should take a breath and think about the fact that you're doing that right here and now. A little more humility and a lot less hype might go a long way toward making it a positive one.

pj
chgo
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So now tell us what u think of Scott and Randy regarding their teachings of aiming systems, specifically CTE.

P. S. Randy i've met and he is a top notch instructor and person.
 
Well, CJ, you lasted a lot longer than other pros who tried to be a part of this community, kudos for that. I've learned in many areas of my life to take what I can use and leave the rest for others, and I have with your offerings here. Thanks, and best of luck with the Cup.
 
Going back a ways I am curious on the non practice stroke approach (not trying to derail thread). Have members on here tried that? I have always used some form of a practice stroke. It is usually only 2-3 at most, but it has always been there as part of my process. Before I hit the basement to try no practice stroke for fun, just curious on other members feedback on here.
 
Neil said:
justadub said:
Read back farther, I explained why and what I am bitter about. I give up. It obvious that many on here are so foolish and narrowminded that they think only a pro has any value to give them. And they can't even see that what this particular pro is saying is baloney because they still haven't learned enough to see through him. Posting anything teaching wise on here is obviously a waste of time. This used to be a great site, could still be, but too many on here don't care about that, they only want a hero to follow. They want to be able to say "I talked to CJ!" Well, you guys can have what you want. Enjoy it. Far too many on here have ears but do not hear, have eyes but do not see. Have fun with your stumbles trying to learn from people that flat out don't care about you learning anything of value but are only interested in getting fans. Have to increase his facebook numbers you know. Bitter because CJ took a dump on the forums, and you people are rolling around in it like a pack of ecstatic dogs and don't even realize it or care that you are. After all, it's CJ's crap! As I have said in the past, I would love for knowledgeable pros to post here. Not guys trying to just get a fan club going again that don't care about anyone but themselves.
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I get it. Truly I do. You don't agree with some of the things CJ promotes here, and/or the way he expresses them. I understand, and myself have had a difficult time with some of the zen-speak.

But where I'm losing you is your assumption that many of us will ONLY listen to CJ, or any other "pro", and not to what you, Lou, Scott, Randy or any if the other helpful people here have to say. That simply isn't true. Yes, there has been one or two people that have expressed that sentiment, and I think that is in reaction to the conflict. But I truly believe that most of us simply want to take in a much information from as many sources as we can.

CJ didn't start being antagonistic in some of his posts until prompted. That doesn't make it right, but he certainly didn't start his posting here with an agenda against you folks.

I'm not into hero worship. But I certainly appreciate it when someone with some history in our game is willing to contribute here. Sadly, it seems that there are folks who delight in taking shots at thee successful players when they do come here. John Schmidt comes to mind. I'm sure there are others. Mike Dechaine gets some of that, too, but he still stops by.

I think debate is healthy, and if someone doesn't agree, that's cool. Examining a thought or theory helps the greater whole. Just remember that there are a lot of people reading this stuff, not just the few that post.

In short (too late, heh) I want to be able to read everyone's contributions here, and try as much as I can, with what makes sense to me. I think that describes the bulk of us here. When the discussion turns ugly,it is no longer a debate, its a pissing contest. I can't take anything from that.

Again, many if us value your input, Neil. When you talk about pool, and not when you get upset and offended that someone has a differing opinion.

Be well.
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Spimp13 said:
Going back a ways I am curious on the non practice stroke approach (not trying to derail thread). Have members on here tried that? I have always used some form of a practice stroke. It is usually only 2-3 at most, but it has always been there as part of my process. Before I hit the basement to try no practice stroke for fun, just curious on other members feedback on here.
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I have adopted a minimalist approach with respect to practice strokes...I pause at the cue ball, pull back, pause and stroke. I do two slow distance-measuring strokes as soon as I get down, but not a lot of sawing back and forth. For a long time I would ensure at least 4 practice strokes, but came to the conclusion (for me) that it was wasted effort--and actually broke my concentration. I need at least one measuring stroke to check that my stance is straight and nothing's binding or pulling my stroke off line. But in my PSR the most important/useful part is the pause at the cue ball. It lines up my vision and visualization of the shot (I actually view the results of the shot in my mind's eye during this pause, then pull the trigger).
 
Each faction on AZB seems to believe that theirs is the main or only one.
Instuctors, science guys, pro haters, etc.

I certainly do not think that is the case. It must be diverse. A problem occurs when one faction tries to convert ALL of AZB to join them.

Would that possibly be an attempt to take over AZB? Oh no, I'm getting paranoid again.:wink:

As someone else eluded, & I have also suggested, there are different levels of instructors, even with in the BCA, Scott Lee is a Master Instructor. There is a place for each level depending on the students' needs & desires. They all seem to coexist. But... CJ is not of that 'union' & he does not teach from that prescribed syllabus.

It is not an instuctors fault that he or she is not of the Championship playing caliber of CJ Wiley. Why can't 'they' stand to see anyone 'gravitating' toward the likes of CJ? Is it jealousy? Is it envy? Is it fear of losing customers or prestige? Is it protecting the 'Average Joe'? (Not CJ's words)

I for one do not need protecting. Do you? I can make my own determinations. Right...or wrong, I do not want someone to TELL me what I need to do. Believe it or not, I am not a child (open door for slurring insut). I am an adult & should be taught (instructed) as an adult. One should not treat one's students with an overbearing, pompous, arrogant, all knowing, holier than thou attitude, even if one knows very much & can instruct well with in their field of 'expertise'. Much of all of the hullabalou is due to ATTITUDE. (again opening for attacking slurs)

Perhaps AZB should be sectioned off by levels of knowledgable information beginner, novice, intermediate, league top dog, money player, short stop road man, house 'pro', pro level, whatever.

I know what I do not need. Other things that I may not know are what interest me & that is what CJ was bringing to the site even if it is 'old information' as some have proclaimed. Well then why were they not talking about it. CJ's approach is fresh & different.

The 'Vigilante Committee' should Live & Let Live.

Best regards to all of the SINCERE AZB community,
 
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If a non-celebrity had made the same statements that we've heard here from CJ and they were questioned by the same people who have done it here, there would be no outcry from the fans. In fact, they'd probably be glad to hear second opinions. And there would be (relative) Peace in the Valley.

The problem isn't that CJ is being "attacked"; it's that his assertions aren't being granted favored-poster exemption from being weighed objectively like any other poster's assertions would be. The acrimony isn't really between CJ and those trying to correct what they see as his misstatements - it's between those with different opinions about how his statements should be treated.

I obviously have my own opinion about this, which probably shows in the way I describe it. But I'm not trying to argue one way or the other in this post - just trying to clarify an issue that comes up repeatedly here.

pj
chgo
 
golf swing

Just like in a great centrifugal force golf swing. The no applied force from the hands! They act by themselves as a result of the centrifugal force created from the swinging forearm. Read "golfswinger.com" if its up.
 
Thanks for the reply. I would like more input for people who have tried the "no practice stroke" way.

Let's just assume, you are a player that every time from the moment you examine the table and have a game plan on your next 3 shots in advance what you are going to do. IF you are able to get in your stance correctly, line up the shot (every time), and hit the exact spot you are aiming every time with a fluid stroke, is the no practice stroke a bad thing?
 
Spimp13 said:
Going back a ways I am curious on the non practice stroke approach (not trying to derail thread). Have members on here tried that? I have always used some form of a practice stroke. It is usually only 2-3 at most, but it has always been there as part of my process. Before I hit the basement to try no practice stroke for fun, just curious on other members feedback on here.
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I changed my preshot routine a while ago and got rid of my multiple practice strokes and I wont go back. To me it feels like I cleaned up my stroke and made it simpler. I also got rid of the pause in my back stroke. Simple clean smooth stroke. This works for me, each to their own.
 
Spimp13 said:
Thanks for the reply. I would like more input for people who have tried the "no practice stroke" way.
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This is a relatively common practice technique - I use it myself (interspersed with other things) and think it's very valuable for forcing myself to set up precisely, focus quickly and not make lots of stance adjustments while down on the shot.

Let's just assume, you are a player that every time from the moment you examine the table and have a game plan on your next 3 shots in advance what you are going to do. IF you are able to get in your stance correctly, line up the shot (every time), and hit the exact spot you are aiming every time with a fluid stroke, is the no practice stroke a bad thing?
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I'm not sure that can be answered as a general rule. I wouldn't compete using this technique, even though I think it's a very valuable practice method.

pj
chgo
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Madmiller,
..... one little thing can set the flood gates wide open.
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The little thing that got me started was when CJ was talking about "the slot". That brought to my mind the way my thumb and index finger, when parallel form a slot. The second thing that really got me going was when he spoke of holding the cue with the fingers. I realized that I had been working so hard on keeping my body still and only my shooting arm moving on the stroke that I had taken my fingers out of the equation and they were just holding the cue and simply along for the ride. So ..... I started practicing with the swing thought of putting my fingers in control of the stroke. Oh yea.....it works so much better for me. I have so much more control of whitey when I put my fingers in charge. Along with more power available for draw and stroke shots.

When I was in my 20's I played a lot of ping pong using a pen holder grip. That taught me how much power and control I can produce with just a quick flip of the wrist and fingers.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
This is a relatively common practice technique - I use it myself (interspersed with other things) and think it's very valuable for forcing myself to set up precisely, focus quickly and not make lots of stance adjustments while down on the shot.


I'm not sure that can be answered as a general rule. I wouldn't compete using this technique, even though I think it's a very valuable practice method.

pj
chgo
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PJ, thank you for the reply. Why would you not compete using this technique if you think its a valuable practice method? It seems to force you to do some very important fundamentals correctly. What are the downsides of it if what I listed under the assumption areas were true?

See good discussion again :grin:
 
Neil said:
Read back farther, I explained why and what I am bitter about. I give up. It obvious that many on here are so foolish and narrowminded that they think only a pro has any value to give them. And they can't even see that what this particular pro is saying is baloney because they still haven't learned enough to see through him.
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Are you duckie now, you're really worried people are ignoring the teachings of an amateur because they want to listen to a pro?

You know, I used to like your posts, but I've gotta be blunt here.

You make CJ out to be the narcissist, but if you're honest with yourself and your own motives... isn't all of this about you, and how you feel people aren't crediting your opinions enough over someone else's? And that offends you on some deep level?

Certainly the act of quitting and manually deleting all your old posts fits that mold. Like you're really sticking it to AZB by denying them the benefit of your wisdom. You have to be pretty self-absorbed to think that way.

Every day on AZ, someone will post something you strongly disagree with... whether it's physics or politics. It's up to you, you can handle it gracefully and argue politely (check out the new John Barton)... or you can ignore it (like I avoid aiming threads)... or you can be like a dog with a bone about it and stridently argue to the point where someone feels like quitting or someone gets banned.
 
Spimp13 said:
Thanks for the reply. I would like more input for people who have tried the "no practice stroke" way.

Let's just assume, you are a player that every time from the moment you examine the table and have a game plan on your next 3 shots in advance what you are going to do. IF you are able to get in your stance correctly, line up the shot (every time), and hit the exact spot you are aiming every time with a fluid stroke, is the no practice stroke a bad thing?
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I spent a significant amount of time practicing that method. I believe it was my friend, Gene Nagy (RIP) who coined the phrase: 'drop and shoot method,' which I think aptly describes it.

I enjoyed practicing that way, but I found that it doesn't hold up under the pressure of competition. You need to be totally committed to being on automatic pilot and totally trusting with that type of setup.

It isn't realistic that we could play with such indifference and disregard for the consequences in competition. At least, it isn't for me and I think that's the mindset that would be required. For example: If you miss a shot, you can't question if you would have made it with a few more practice strokes. That would be deadly to your frame of mind and totally mess you up.
 
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Spimp13 said:
Thanks for the reply. I would like more input for people who have tried the "no practice stroke" way.

Let's just assume, you are a player that every time from the moment you examine the table and have a game plan on your next 3 shots in advance what you are going to do. IF you are able to get in your stance correctly, line up the shot (every time), and hit the exact spot you are aiming every time with a fluid stroke, is the no practice stroke a bad thing?
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It is a good way to practice your aiming/pre shot routine/alignment. You can start with one practice stroke and then move to no practice stroke. Now if you master that you should be able to kick butt when you play with your normal routine.
 
Simp I recommend you try one stroking at the table and see if its for you. Interested to know what you think when you try it.
 
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