WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

Spimp13 said:
PJ, thank you for the reply. Why would you not compete using this technique if you think its a valuable practice method? It seems to force you to do some very important fundamentals correctly. What are the downsides of it if what I listed under the assumption areas were true?

See good discussion again :grin:
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See Fran's post about that (just above). I agree with her reservations about that.

I also think practice strokes are valuable for refining my aim and speed control and for maintaining a consistent playing rhythm - I don't want to eliminate them, just add the benefits that come from practicing (sometimes) without them.

pj
chgo
 
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Fran...I'm in complete agreement with your post. While Gene was famous for the "drop and shoot" method, can you think of any other top players, of any era, that utilized that style of play in actual competition? You certainly don't see it with any of today's top players.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

FranCrimi said:
I spent a significant amount of time practicing that method. I believe it was my friend, Gene Nagy (RIP) who coined the phrase: 'drop and shoot method,' which I think aptly describes it.

I enjoyed practicing that way, but I found that it doesn't hold up under the pressure of competition. You need to be totally committed to being on automatic pilot and totally trusting with that type of setup.

It isn't realistic that we could play with such indifference and disregard for the consequences in competition. At least, it isn't for me and I think that's the mindset that would be required. For example: If you miss a shot, you can't question if you would have made it with a few more practice strokes. That would be deadly to your frame of mind and totally mess you up.
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truman said:
Just like in a great centrifugal force golf swing. The no applied force from the hands! They act by themselves as a result of the centrifugal force created from the swinging forearm. Read "golfswinger.com" if its up.
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Tons of differing golf instruction. Some of what you refer to is common. However, if you think most pros are not applying the wrist & therefore the hands, you are mistaken. The search is to get into 'that slot' where once there, one can 'hit' as hard a one wants with the bottom hand as the club is releasing with no ill effect other than more distance, spin, etc.

The pool comparison is similiar to the KISS 'pendulum' stroke vs a pro like Phil Milkeson.

Best Regards,
 
I will definitely try it for sure! I don't maybe have the best credentials just being your standard APA 7 in 8 ball, but I play well enough to probably provide some sort of feedback on it.
 
Scott Lee said:
Fran...I'm in complete agreement with your post. While Gene was famous for the "drop and shoot" method, can you think of any other top players, of any era, that utilized that style of play in actual competition? You certainly don't see it with any of today's top players.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Gene didn't compete with that method. He just experimented with it.
 
Spimp13 said:
Thanks for the reply. I would like more input for people who have tried the "no practice stroke" way.

Let's just assume, you are a player that every time from the moment you examine the table and have a game plan on your next 3 shots in advance what you are going to do. IF you are able to get in your stance correctly, line up the shot (every time), and hit the exact spot you are aiming every time with a fluid stroke, is the no practice stroke a bad thing?[/QUOTE

I have no set routine(opening for slur) but most of the time I do not take 'practice strokes'. I simply set up & shoot. However on a few shots(probably some more difficult ones) I do take some practice strokes. I did not think that those occasional misses were at any accelerated rate but in thinking back I 'real eyesed' that I did mis way more of that type than the no stroke type.

However my conclusion was in reference to being set correctly. I was stroking more, practicing, because subconsciously I 'knew' that it was not correct. So... now when I find myself taking 'practice' strokes I know that something is off & get up & start over & get down to where I can just shoot. The percentage of no stroke shots is much higher but keep in mind that it is a result of proper sight & set up & is not it & of itself a magic solution.

Just my nickel.

Regards,
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Scott Lee said:
Okay...I thought he had some 100+ runs doing that. My bad...so would your answer be, "I don't know of any top players that use(d) a 'drop and shoot' method to play competitively"?

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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He did run hundreds that way, but not in competition. I have no idea if any players play that way in competition. I've seen players drop and shoot shots in competition, but not every single shot.
 
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nobcitypool said:
Electrical Engineer huh? What Engineering School did you receive your degree from dude?
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You've been here barely six months and you already are a troll. Great accomplishment, dewd! And you're playing the "stupid card", too. Terrific! You'll fit right in on this forum. An intellectual snob and a troll. How's my sentence structure? Should I add an LOL?

Keep posting. Every time you open your mouth it moves this thread closer to being locked out. That's your goal. You must get special pleasure in depriving interested readers the chance to follow the OP's assertions.

What's that smell? Could it be a banned poster come back to life? Let's see...they troll through threads; call bu!!$hit on the posters; and finish their posts with LMFAO. HMMMM? Nah! That never happens!

Best,
Mike
 
gregcantrall said:
The little thing that got me started was when CJ was talking about "the slot". That brought to my mind the way my thumb and index finger, when parallel form a slot. The second thing that really got me going was when he spoke of holding the cue with the fingers. I realized that I had been working so hard on keeping my body still and only my shooting arm moving on the stroke that I had taken my fingers out of the equation and they were just holding the cue and simply along for the ride. So ..... I started practicing with the swing thought of putting my fingers in control of the stroke. Oh yea.....it works so much better for me. I have so much more control of whitey when I put my fingers in charge. Along with more power available for draw and stroke shots.

When I was in my 20's I played a lot of ping pong using a pen holder grip. That taught me how much power and control I can produce with just a quick flip of the wrist and fingers.
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Greg.

I played Ping Pong with a grip similiar to that of when you make a 'gun' with your hand. great for top sipin & good for slice on the forehand side & 'killer' for 'slaming winners' for anything on the back hand side, using the forehand side of the paddle, with just 'a flip of the wrist' with very little or even no arm motion. If it was wide on the back hand side I would tuck the thumb & then use the backhand side of the paddle.

It is the unconventional that makes some great, not that I was, but it was a great technique. All great players are not 'savants' they simply work hard & find 'unconventional' ways that simply work better, regardless of the physics that they do or did not know. Ala Ben Hogan, he dug it out of the ground not a physics or instructional book.

I'm glad CJ could nudge you through the flood gate. You've been here since June of last year. What took so long?

Bset Regards,
 
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CreeDo said:
You make CJ out to be the narcissist,
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And you think he isn't? LMAO! The guy that always has a picture of himself in his sigtag (or whatever it is) and regularly changes it? He is the Poster Boy for Narcissist. BTW, that's fine and from my POV, that has nothing to do with why he was challenged here. He was challenged when he started posting total BS. It all essentially started in the Wrist ... hidden power ... blah, blah, thread. Go back to his posts prior to that thread and show me where people were disrespecting him, baiting him or anything else? From reading several posts here, one would think people were riding CJ from the moment he started posting here hot and heavy. The facts show something entirely different but why let that interfere with someone's perception?
 
CreeDo said:
Are you duckie now, you're really worried people are ignoring the teachings of an amateur because they want to listen to a pro?

You know, I used to like your posts, but I've gotta be blunt here.

You make CJ out to be the narcissist, but if you're honest with yourself and your own motives... isn't all of this about you, and how you feel people aren't crediting your opinions enough over someone else's? And that offends you on some deep level?

Certainly the act of quitting and manually deleting all your old posts fits that mold. Like you're really sticking it to AZB by denying them the benefit of your wisdom. You have to be pretty self-absorbed to think that way.

Every day on AZ, someone will post something you strongly disagree with... whether it's physics or politics. It's up to you, you can handle it gracefully and argue politely (check out the new John Barton)... or you can ignore it (like I avoid aiming threads)... or you can be like a dog with a bone about it and stridently argue to the point where someone feels like quitting or someone gets banned.
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or you run them off or 'make' them put you on ignor to avert the nit picking word wars, slurs & name calling.

I gree with your post Mr. Creedo. Again, sorry for being a butt in on the party line. Are you old enough to remember them.

Regards,
 
Mikjary said:
You've been here barely six months and you already are a troll. Great accomplishment, dewd! And you're playing the "stupid card", too. Terrific! You'll fit right in on this forum. An intellectual snob and a troll. How's my sentence structure? Should I add an LOL?

Keep posting. Every time you open your mouth it moves this thread closer to being locked out. That's your goal. You must get special pleasure in depriving interested readers the chance to follow the OP's assertions.

What's that smell? Could it be a banned poster come back to life? Let's see...they troll through threads; call bu!!$hit on the posters; and finish their posts with LMFAO. HMMMM? Nah! That never happens!

Best,
Mike
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Mike,

Who is he? Oh, I mean who was he? Or is it what I suggested before I put him on ignor, what other identity does he have? Is he Scott Lee's alter ego, or Neil's. Or is there a prescribe 'discussion' stlye or class that they all learned from.

I'd just like to know? Inquiring minds just want to know.

Best Regards, I'm going to go play some pool. Have a good day.
 
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I guess that answered my question about the degree. Oops, you actually learned from CJ, instead of answering the question, you attacked the person and ignored the question. So let me guess. You attempted to validate your intelligence with a statement about an Electrical Engineering Career when in fact you changed some light bulbs and Googled Ohm's Law one time. LMAO You're also a GC huh? Based upon your posting thus far, I'm guessing that means you built a miniature log cabin out of Tinker Toys. I can see why you're on CJ's side, you both have a serious ego issue and find some need to validate yourself.

Losing your temper dude? Seems like it. You call me a Troll? How long do I need to be here before I pass your muster and could dare to post
something you disagree with? And who gets to decide that; YOU? If you care to check DUDE, you addressed me aggressively before I even knew you exist. Pardon me for responding. Now that you're being exposed, you're starting to get angry. Hang on Dude while I call you a Waambulance. Leave me alone Dude and I'm make certain to never address you again, even if you stumble into posting something sensible (which seems highly unlikely).

BTW, I have more than twice the positive iTrader comments as you do, does that give me more creds? I guess since that doesn't fit your level of validation, probably not huh? Tell you what, PM me your address and I'll mail you 50 cents so you can call somebody that cares what you think as I surely don't. I do enjoy the entertainment you provide however. Dude. :cool:

Mikjary said:
You've been here barely six months and you already are a troll. Great accomplishment, dewd! And you're playing the "stupid card", too. Terrific! You'll fit right in on this forum. An intellectual snob and a troll. How's my sentence structure? Should I add an LOL?

Keep posting. Every time you open your mouth it moves this thread closer to being locked out. That's your goal. You must get special pleasure in depriving interested readers the chance to follow the OP's assertions.

What's that smell? Could it be a banned poster come back to life? Let's see...they troll through threads; call bu!!$hit on the posters; and finish their posts with LMFAO. HMMMM? Nah! That never happens!

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...
 
nobcitypool said:
And you think he isn't? LMAO! The guy that always has a picture of himself in his sigtag (or whatever it is) and regularly changes it? He is the Poster Boy for Narcissist. BTW, that's fine and from my POV, that has nothing to do with why he was challenged here. He was challenged when he started posting total BS. It all essentially started in the Wrist ... hidden power ... blah, blah, thread. Go back to his posts prior to that thread and show me where people were disrespecting him, baiting him or anything else? From reading several posts here, one would think people were riding CJ from the moment he started posting here hot and heavy. The facts show something entirely different but why let that interfere with someone's perception?
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Point of order: CJ's "enlarge the margin of error" idea was questioned in an Aiming Forum thread before this one.

pj
chgo
 
Wow, while I was knocked-out (power- and Internet-wise) by hurricane Sandy, it looks like there was another hurricane of sorts going on here at AZB!

But, while reading through this particular thread, for some reason, this analogy comes to mind:

<...pulls a book of matches from pocket, opens book, pulls a match, strikes it, and holds the lit match up in the air for all to see...>

"Look what I have here, world -- Fire!"

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Wow, while I was knocked-out (power- and Internet-wise) by hurricane Sandy, it looks like there was another hurricane of sorts going on here at AZB!

But, while reading through this particular thread, for some reason, this analogy comes to mind:

<...pulls a book of matches from pocket, opens book, pulls a match, strikes it, and holds the lit match up in the air for all to see...>

"Look what I have here, world -- Fire!"

-Sean
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Standard fare, Sean. Different topic, a few different participants, some of the usual subjects.....same outcome. Death spiral.

Glad to see you are well, and starting to get some sense of order in your world.
 
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