WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

I don't think i was hitting with the top of the tip but it sure felt like it. Sometimes you have to describe things by a "feeling" to get a point across to someone even though what your describing is not how it actually is. Now if you never actually try said "things" you will find it very hard to understand.

added: I used CJ touch of inside technique just for breaking last night and a few people said "wow you have a loud break!"
 
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I have followed this thread from the beginning and had some reservations based on the descriptions/techniques. But then I tried it out for the 3 hours and at some point it really made sense and more importantly increased my accuracy and consistency. This is really a great soncept so far --- but time will tell.

But here is the problem: How can you hit the cue ball with the top of the tip and get follow English? It seems to me that you have to hit it with the bottom side of the tip no matter how much you elevate the cue.

OMG I'm confused.
 
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FranCrimi said:
Guys, I know the difference between squirt, swerve and squerve. Give me a little credit, please.

If a cue ball that was struck with side spin is still sliding, then it is still squirting. The point at which it stops squirting can be controlled by speed. That is a real and legitimate relationship. If you would rather associate that relationship with swerve, then that's fine. But I'm clear about what I wrote.
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Fran,

I know you know, but if one can get the CB to slide all the way to the OB while spinning with some form of side spin, then all one has to do is to aim in a fashion so as to allow for the CB squirt(deflection) for the off center tip hit on the cue ball in order to make the CB contact the OB at the desired contact point.

I was doing that in my teens before I knew what deflection was or what was causing it. Its not that difficult. The game itself can be the teacher.

And then...if one does not want to hit the CB at that speed then one simply has to allow for an amount of swerve back. Again I was doing that in my teens. It too is not that difficult.

Apparently CJ does it with cue angle. I do it by varying the spin speed ratio over the distance.

However, both do take table time to learn & develope the 'feel' & 'touch' so as to apply the methods with accuracy & efficiency.

Again I know that you know.
Best Regards,
 
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This is a very crude image of what hitting the top half of the CB with the top half of the cue tip would look like. Note the angle of the cue. How can one accomplish this with less of an angle on the cue? And how can you generate follow with this stroke at this angle?

topofcueontopofcbimage.jpg
[/IMG]
 
Tennesseejoe said:
I have followed this thread from the beginning and had some reservations based on the descriptions/techniques. But then I tried it out for the 3 hours and at some point it really made sense and more importantly increased my accuracy and consistency. This is really a great soncept so far --- but time will tell.

But here is the problem: How can you hit the cue ball with the top of the tip and get follow English? It seems to me that you have to hit it with the bottom side of the tip no matter how much you elevate the cue.

OMG I'm confused.
Click to expand...

You have to turn the cue a half a turn. Don't forget " The Game Is The Teacher" , say it after me.... SAY IT.
 
nobcitypool said:
This is a very crude image of what hitting the top half of the CB with the top half of the cue tip would look like. Note the angle of the cue. How can one accomplish this with less of an angle on the cue? And how can you generate follow with this stroke at this angle?
Click to expand...

follow would look something like this. Do you see how far off base you are in your understanding of techniques and figuring them out? Its like our discussion on the touch of inside we had in the other thread.
 

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nobcitypool said:
Patrick, if the person you're trying to discuss this with cannot readily picture a round ball with the cue tip located above the horizontal axis and then grasp the idea of the cue having to be angled up at more than 45 degrees in order to have any portion of the top half tip contact the ball above that horizontal axis, you're wasting your time.
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Well, to be fair, you can hit above the CB's equator with the top half of your tip with less than 45 degrees of butt elevation - you only have to elevate enough so the centerline of your cue is pointed below the "center of mass" of the CB. But this means you must put backspin on the CB.

Combine that with the concept of creating follow roll on the CB with this technique further confirms their limited spatial relationship capability. CJ could tell some of the sycophants if you stare at the CB intensely for 30 seconds, it will jump off the table and they would believe him. Worse, they'd go to the nearest table and stare at the CB for an hour two. Worse yet, I'm sure a couple would come back and swear that the CB actually moved.
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LOL. I have a feeling you're right about that.

pj
chgo
 
Pay Up Sucker said:
follow would look something like this.
Click to expand...
The cue in that illustration isn't hitting the CB with the top if its tip.

Do you see how far off base you are in your understanding of techniques and figuring them out?
Click to expand...
I see that you don't seem to understand what's being said.

Its like our discussion on the touch of inside we had in the other thread.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The cue in that illustration isn't hitting the CB with the top if its tip.


I see that you don't seem to understand what's being said.


Yes, it is.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I have never said that it was hitting with the top of the tip but it gave you a feeling that it was.

what am i not understanding thats been said, i have not really followed this thread to closely?
 
When CJ talks he does a lot "i feel the ball go in the pocket with my eyes or i feel where the cue ball will go or he is one with the table, etc lol" That is how he likes to express himself, kinda cool but can be frustrating lol you have to read between the lines with him often and put the puzzle together yourself.
 
Pay Up Sucker said:
follow would look something like this. Do you see how far off base you are in your understanding of techniques and figuring them out? Its like our discussion on the touch of inside we had in the other thread.
Click to expand...

Weren't you the same guy who was putting inside english on, per CJ's technique but somehow not creating any CIT and other things? I guess if you believe your diagram is showing the top half of a cue tip that is hitting the CB above horizontal center axis, I'm way off base. LMAO!

Patrick, I agree, the cue doesn't have to be elevated to 45 degrees, the exact elevation would be dependent upon the curvature of the cue tip. Without actually doing the geometry, I think it is safe to say it would have to elevated at least 30 degrees (in other words, more than a "slight" elevation any way you cut it). I think most people would consider 30 degree or greater elevation at least somewhat "jacked up".
 
Pay Up Sucker said:
When CJ talks he does a lot "i feel the ball go in the pocket with my eyes or i feel where the cue ball will go or he is one with the table, etc lol" That is how he likes to express himself, kinda cool but can be frustrating lol you have to read between the lines with him often and put the puzzle together yourself.
Click to expand...

Looks like you, CJ and English have created some type of long distance mind meld where you can clearly and exactly share these "feelings". If one of you have a really bad day, are the other two grumpy?
 
nobcitypool said:
Weren't you the same guy who was putting inside english on, per CJ's technique but somehow not creating any CIT and other things? I guess if you believe your diagram is showing the top half of a cue tip that is hitting the CB above horizontal center axis, I'm way off base. LMAO!

Patrick, I agree, the cue doesn't have to be elevated to 45 degrees, the exact elevation would be dependent upon the curvature of the cue tip. Without actually doing the geometry, I think it is safe to say it would have to elevated at least 30 degrees (in other words, more than a "slight" elevation any way you cut it). I think most people would consider 30 degree or greater elevation at least somewhat "jacked up".
Click to expand...

Sorry but i don't even know what cit is or really care what it is :) but you should pay attention to my posts. I think Pj now understands the technique and your on your own now...good luck with that and "the teacher is the game and everyone else" LMAO ;)
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Fran,

I know you know, but if one can get the CB to slide all the way to the OB while spinning with some form of side spin, then all one has to do is to aim in a fashion so as to allow for the CB squirt(deflection) for the off center tip hit on the cue ball in order to make the CB contact the OB at the desired contact point.

I was doing that in my teens before I knew what deflection was or what was causing it. Its not that difficult. The game itself can be the teacher.

And then...if one does not want to hit the CB at that speed then one simply has to allow for an amount of swerve back. Again I was doing that in my teens. It too is not that difficult.

Apparently CJ does it with cue angle. I do it by varying the spin speed ratio over the distance.

However, both do take table time to learn & develope the 'feel' & 'touch' so as to apply the methods with accuracy & efficiency.

Again I know that you know.
Best Regards,
Click to expand...


Right. Agreed.
 
ENGLISH! said:
... if one can get the CB to slide all the way to the OB while spinning with some form of side spin, then all one has to do is to aim in a fashion so as to allow for the CB squirt(deflection) for the off center tip hit on the cue ball in order to make the CB contact the OB at the desired contact point. ...
And then...if one does not want to hit the CB at that speed then one simply has to allow for an amount of swerve back. ...
Click to expand...
If you have side spin on the cue ball as long as it has some draw or stun it will be swerving. Shooting harder extends the distance over which the ball swerves but it does not eliminate swerve.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If you have side spin on the cue ball as long as it has some draw or stun it will be swerving. Shooting harder extends the distance over which the ball swerves but it does not eliminate swerve.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

But...depending on the distance the OB is from the CB & the pocket, with enough forward momentum to spin ratio it can be made all but meaningless to the shot at hand.

Just because it exists does not mean it is worth considering in application for many practicle shots.

Regards,
 
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