Review of Renfro's Accu-Rack

[Patrick Johnson]

Sean:
I think "lean" is kind of a misnomer when we're talking about spheres, but I can't think of a better term. Rocked onto? Perched on the edge of, and the adjacent ball holding it up?

I think "lean" is accurate. The ball sits on the edge of a little "curb" that lifts it off the cloth slightly offcenter so it would roll forward if it wasn't leaning on the ball next to it.

I don't think "loading" is the right term for what that does to the dynamic - that implies there's some extra energy available to spread the balls compared with balls that aren't leaning. Seems to me the leaning balls will waste some energy getting over those little "curbs".

pj
chgo

 

[rrich1]

Months ago i offered to help Renfro. I would have offered a fair and well written review and took it to the many places i play to get him exposure and other opinions. He didn't even answer me PM so needless to say I will not buy one. Customer service is big imo

and lots of other people did the same thing.

 

[Joe T]

Chris sent me a set last week and as soon as I received it I gave it go. I turned on the video camera just in case and the footage is here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVDxcJCyWs0

Not my most exciting video but you get to see the product in action right out of the box. I really liked and agree with Neil’s written review. I did find some flaws in the back left corner of the 10 ball rack that Chris is all over, easy fix and is happy we caught it.
I did dog it and totally forget about trying out balls of different sizes which is obviously a great benefit. I’ll try to get back to you on that as I have all new sets here but I’m sure I have some worn cue balls laying around.

In general another gr8 product that I wish we had many, many moons ago!

 

[TATE]

Chris sent me a set last week and as soon as I received it I gave it go. I turned on the video camera just in case and the footage is here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVDxcJCyWs0

Not my most exciting video but you get to see the product in action right out of the box. I really liked and agree with Neil’s written review. I did find some flaws in the back left corner of the 10 ball rack that Chris is all over, easy fix and is happy we caught it.
I did dog it and totally forget about trying out balls of different sizes which is obviously a great benefit. I’ll try to get back to you on that as I have all new sets here but I’m sure I have some worn cue balls laying around.

In general another gr8 product that I wish we had many, many moons ago!

It's a good video because it shows your well timed break stroke.

Are you not breaking off the side rail anymore in 9 ball?

 

[DrOnePocket]

and lots of other people did the same thing.

There aren't many members in this area, certainly aren't any that travel around like i do and could have helped him the way I could. He could have at least responded. I have years of experience in sales/management and understand how important customer service is, obviously he does not.

 

[CreeDo]

Dr1P: Customers are traditionally people who pay for something :B

Shaft: of course people are bothered by that. It's the only legit complaint anyone has with these, and the very first thing they mention when they see a template. But if you play with these a while you'll find that 90% of the time (closer to 95% with 9 ball) you can remove them, so the issue simply doesn't come up. The rare times balls are stuck on the rack, players can just be gentlemen and agree to lift a ball so it can be removed. I've seen this even in TAR matches for serious money.

--

The racks are growing on me a little more. It was pointed out to me that the reason they can work with irregular balls is not because you physically scrunch up the arms. It's because the holes are little rectangular tracks that all angle towards the center of the rack. Balls can sit inside these tracks and have a little room to roll within their grooves. So you can push an irregular ball further up the groove if necessary. Nice touch.

Having mentioned the good and the bad... here's The Ugly:
My buddies and I have figured out how to roll a full rack of 8 ball onto a template without the need to place balls individually. This works fine on the accu-rack too. But if the rack is still a little curled from its tube and you're careless, you can crinkle the whole thing up like an accordion doing this. My 8b rack looks like unfolded origami.

The other ugly: don't set it on the bar near other people's beers and such. Eventually it can dry out and I hear you can even iron it. But if it gets drenched it's out of action for a while.

 

[DrOnePocket]

Dr1P: Customers are traditionally people who pay for something :B

.

Everyone is a potential customer Creedo! If you think someone that expressed interest in your product isn't a potential customer, you have absolutely no business sense. I see you just want to argue even though you really have nothing pertinent to offer so I will leave it at that.

 

[TATE]

I just ordered a couple of sets. Can't wait to try it.

By the way, if you guys haven't seen Joe's video up above, I recommend it. I copied his break angle and have had some pretty good success using his technique on my table with the Magic Rack. I normally break from the side rail but got more consistent breaks and better cue ball control his way.

 

[CreeDo]

Everyone is a potential customer Creedo! If you think someone that expressed interest in your product isn't a potential customer, you have absolutely no business sense. I see you just want to argue even though you really have nothing pertinent to offer so I will leave it at that.

Not trying to bust your balls, it's just that I think you're reading too much into the fact you got no reply, like you personally got blown off.

It could be he never even got it, or he got it but he also got 250 other emails asking for a free sample, or he's been on the road and no opportunity to check email, or he's got spam issues and occasionally a legit email gets skimmed over or filtered out.

Really, I don't think anyone has much right to complain about not getting a free product, that was never promised to them in the first place. Seems nitty. If that causes you not to purchase an accu-rack, so be it. I'll personally base my purchase decision on "does the product do what it's supposed to".

 

[DrOnePocket]

Not trying to bust your balls, it's just that I think you're reading too much into the fact you got no reply, like you personally got blown off.

It could be he never even got it, or he got it but he also got 250 other emails asking for a free sample, or he's been on the road and no opportunity to check email, or he's got spam issues and occasionally a legit email gets skimmed over or filtered out.

Really, I don't think anyone has much right to complain about not getting a free product, that was never promised to them in the first place. Seems nitty. If that causes you not to purchase an accu-rack, so be it. I'll personally base my purchase decision on "does the product do what it's supposed to".

Somehow you are not only missing the point but taking what happened and running wild in your imagination with it. Since you are just talking without knowing what you are even talking about how about you do us both a favor and stop.

 

[The Renfro]

From : DrOnePocket
To : The Renfro
Date : 2012-08-11 03:52
Title : Your Rack
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am interested in testing one of your racks. I travel around SE Mizzou, NE Arkansas, and the Memphis area playing tournaments. I could take it with me and let everyone use it to see what they think. Afterwards if you would like a write up, i can handle that to for you in whichever forum you like

Let me know,

Nate Hogue


Sorry Nate that I never responded. At the time you sent this I had made mention of the racks in a few places but they were still going thru R&D and at that time... Everything I was doing was in one offs...

I was unaware that I would have a logjam in getting my roll material which would lead to me having a drawing for free demo sets while I was waiting... 9/29/12 was the date of the demo drawing thread... I had no intent to sending out demo sets outside of persons who I knew in the industry until that point...

Between 8/11 and 9/29 I cleared my PM box 3-4 times so your message was long forgotten... I think I do recall DrOnepocket because I keep wishing I could make a template that you could use in 1hole and 14.1

On 8/11/12 no sets were out of my hands that were not held by people I knew personally as the designs were still being finalized and I had zero legal protection for them at that point... 49 days later they were protected and I could send them out with a smile on my face....

As far as customer service responses go... AZ is not nor was it my place of business on 8/11/12... A PM box with limited space and no forwarding capabilities makes for a very poor means of communication and follow up.... That is why www.outsville.com and it's attached store were created. So I could actually fill orders and answer questions in a timely basis. Orders at this point are being filled in 2-3 days and no email has went unanswered for more than 24 hours....

As far as being unresponsive here for the past few days it took me 2 days to find your original PM in the csv files since I have 3 computers that I use at home and travel with depending on the type of work I am doing.....

At this point all I can say if you bought something and there is a problem I would be happy to correct any problems you have.. If you have not received your order I can supply you a tracking number.... If you have feedback concerning the templates or the Outsville Hybrids I welcome it.

I will even go so far as to say that I owe a few people apologies for being slow on getting a few 9ball templates I promised as demos... 3 to be exact... I had some seconds from the laser cutter that I was going to send out but after checking them I didn't want to let them out of house...

I intend to send those 3 persons good templates as soon as my next run is done on the laser printer... I should PM these 3 and let them know but once again I will have to dig into CSV files on 3 machines to find their AZ handles because I took the addresses and then archived the messages...

AZ is a great community and I have been happy to share the forums here for years... I even went so far as to clear selling the racks with Jerry in person before they ever were advertised FOR SALE on the site....

I still have topics to cover from some of the reviews but this one needed covered now.

I appreciate Creedo pointing out the things he did...

I would also offer an apology to all of the other people who offered to test them out for me before I was ready and didn't get a reply... I know you all know who you are and I wish I did as well but PMs don't last long...

Anyone wanting to contact me is welcome to do so on the website or email me at outsville@hotmail.com.....

Chris Renfro

 

[The Renfro]

Am I the only one that is bothered that these template racks deflect ball path direction?

We spend so much attention getting accurately-honed slates, perfect joints, a level table, and a low nap cloth, and then lay down a plastic template on the playing field.

I guess it's a trade off between tightness and path purity, but I prefer the traditional problems of traditional racks.

Good review for those who like templates, but for me, I don't want a template rack used in a game I am playing. JMO.

Cheers!

Actually that's a valid reason to be bothered but you have to consider the percentages... You rack every single game... SO the traditional problems which are mainly about getting tight and consistent racks plague every single game where the triangle was used....

The deflection on a template only happens at the combination of the right angle and right speed. Most of the time there is no interference because the balls are still moving pretty sporty at the foot end of the table if they happen to cross the template. On a bar box there is more of a chance of a ball rolling across the template but it really is moot since it's 50/50 to help or hurt....

After the break, most of the time, the template can easily be removed before shooting.... The 9 or 10 will occasionally stay on the rack but that can be removed and put back to get the template off the table. If you choose to leave it the balls react like cloth, at speed, so unless you are going to play position across the foot spot area in your pattern it likely isn't going to hurt.....

Will try and address more points later... Don't want a wall of words that tries to answer everyone and everything.....

Here's wishing everyone tight racks,
Chris

 

[ndakotan]

what customer service?

There aren't many members in this area, certainly aren't any that travel around like i do and could have helped him the way I could. He could have at least responded. I have years of experience in sales/management and understand how important customer service is, obviously he does not.

Doesn't customer service imply you are a customer or a potential paying customer? I bought a few and was very happy with the products I bought and the service I was given. I bought them not knowing if I would like them, use them, forget them somewhere, or give them to my teammates that care more about rack style than I do. Either way I learned something for a reasonable amount of money.

If he blew you off in person, then you can call him whatever you want. To hope that he saw one pm in a sea of pms on a limited system is a bit of a stretch. I'd imagine he had lots of people offering to "help".

This seems like going in to subway and telling them you'll recommend their product if they give you a free sub (or in this case, two free subs). A lot of people buy the subs and they recommend the subs to other poeple. I'm not sure you could be mad at subway if they didn't respond to your request. I've eaten a lot a subway (willingly purchasing a good product) and one time the manager told the checkout lady not to charge me because I was such a good customer. I thanked the manager and the checkout lady and continue to buy sub sandwiches to this day. In fact, I'm sure I could be in a sub-club deal where I get 1 sandwich for every ten I buy if thought I deserved a free sub. How about asking him to send you after you have 10 friends order a set. That way he starts cash flowing and you get a good deal.

I'm sure you are an honest person and would make him more money if you showed everyone the product, but knowing how fast and publicly you turned on him, he may be better off.

If a hundred churches emailed you and asked to do a gratis presentation (or whatever it is you do) at their church, would you respond to all of them? At each church you might get a few customers out of the deal.

I think Renfro has satisfactorily responded to the complaint (way more than he should have needed to) but heck I'll send you my 9 ball template if you give me your address if that will even out the "customer service" nightmare you had and you recommend the product if you like it. Just don't complain if it takes me a few days to get to the post office box.

PS, I have no idea who you are or why you think people should send you stuff for free or who renfro is and I have no stake in this horserace. I just don't like public assaults and think we should all get along and help each other.

Shoot well and have fun doing it.

 

[DrOnePocket]

I would have sent the rack back to you when I was done and provided the reviews from everyone. You morons are acting like I wanted to take advantage of him, i was trying to help Renfro out at no cost to him. I have been in sales/management most of my working life and could have really helped the business. Since you want to attack me for being kind, i will make sure to not recommend it to anyone. This just shows why you can't be nice to people anymore.

Renfro you have a lot to learn about sales and business if you think that AZ is not or was not one of your places of business back in August. I wish you luck, you will need it

 

[DrOnePocket]

Doesn't customer service imply you are a customer or a potential paying customer? I bought a few and was very happy with the products I bought and the service I was given. I bought them not knowing if I would like them, use them, forget them somewhere, or give them to my teammates that care more about rack style than I do. Either way I learned something for a reasonable amount of money.

If he blew you off in person, then you can call him whatever you want. To hope that he saw one pm in a sea of pms on a limited system is a bit of a stretch. I'd imagine he had lots of people offering to "help".

This seems like going in to subway and telling them you'll recommend their product if they give you a free sub (or in this case, two free subs). A lot of people buy the subs and they recommend the subs to other poeple. I'm not sure you could be mad at subway if they didn't respond to your request. I've eaten a lot a subway (willingly purchasing a good product) and one time the manager told the checkout lady not to charge me because I was such a good customer. I thanked the manager and the checkout lady and continue to buy sub sandwiches to this day. In fact, I'm sure I could be in a sub-club deal where I get 1 sandwich for every ten I buy if thought I deserved a free sub. How about asking him to send you after you have 10 friends order a set. That way he starts cash flowing and you get a good deal.

I'm sure you are an honest person and would make him more money if you showed everyone the product, but knowing how fast and publicly you turned on him, he may be better off.

If a hundred churches emailed you and asked to do a gratis presentation (or whatever it is you do) at their church, would you respond to all of them? At each church you might get a few customers out of the deal.

I think Renfro has satisfactorily responded to the complaint (way more than he should have needed to) but heck I'll send you my 9 ball template if you give me your address if that will even out the "customer service" nightmare you had and you recommend the product if you like it. Just don't complain if it takes me a few days to get to the post office box.

PS, I have no idea who you are or why you think people should send you stuff for free or who renfro is and I have no stake in this horserace. I just don't like public assaults and think we should all get along and help each other.

Shoot well and have fun doing it.

By reading your post, it is pretty clear you are confused so i don't see much need to break it down just like i didn't for the other guy. I don't want anything for free, I had no intention of dong anything but helping him out. He never responded until today so I have no clue what you mean. I don't want your rack.


Also posting a PM in this thread was very low class, especially given the circumstances. He should have responded to me months ago even if it was to say hell no, I don't need you or anyone elses help.

 

[The Renfro]

I would have sent the rack back to you when I was done and provided the reviews from everyone. You morons are acting like I wanted to take advantage of him, i was trying to help Renfro out at no cost to him. I have been in sales/management most of my working life and could have really helped the business. Since you want to attack me for being kind, i will make sure to not recommend it to anyone. This just shows why you can't be nice to people anymore.

Renfro you have a lot to learn about sales and business if you think that AZ is not or was not one of your places of business back in August. I wish you luck, you will need it

I do appreciate your wishing me luck and I know more than most how much I will need it...

 

[The Renfro]

Nate,

you posted nothing wrong only a sincere offer to help in the PM... I saw nothing low class in posting it here... It was a genuine offer which is why I was truly sorry I failed to respond... The posting was only to illustrate it was short in nature so I easily missed it....

 

[dr9ball]

By reading your post, it is pretty clear you are confused so i don't see much need to break it down just like i didn't for the other guy. I don't want anything for free, I had no intention of dong anything but helping him out. He never responded until today so I have no clue what you mean. I don't want your rack.


Also posting a PM in this thread was very low class, especially given the circumstances. He should have responded to me months ago even if it was to say hell no, I don't need you or anyone elses help.

Based on your incessant whining in this thread, some people may think that you value your own opinion too much.

Some say you have busted Renfro's chops enough over not getting back to you in what you deem a timely manner.

If you continue to stir the pot, some may feel it only shows your own lack of class and maturity.

How long will you continue to bash him? Is this a personal vendetta to try to limit the success of his product? To me it seems that is your plan.

 

[DrOnePocket]

Based on your incessant whining in this thread, some people may think that you value your own opinion too much.

Some say you have busted Renfro's chops enough over not getting back to you in what you deem a timely manner.

If you continue to stir the pot, some may feel it only shows your own lack of class and maturity.

How long will you continue to bash him? Is this a personal vendetta to try to limit the success of his product? To me it seems that is your plan.

I am not the one stirring the pot. I made one post stating my feelings on the matter and ever since have just been responding to idiots that want to bash me for trying to help someone. I understand the making excuses for your buddy about why he didn't respond etc. I could care less what you or anyone else thinks at this point. The sooner you drop it, the sooner it will go away. Use your brain a little

 

[DrOnePocket]

Nate,

you posted nothing wrong only a sincere offer to help in the PM... I saw nothing low class in posting it here... It was a genuine offer which is why I was truly sorry I failed to respond... The posting was only to illustrate it was short in nature so I easily missed it....

Best of luck