Tom, can you show me a patent for deco rings or points or some other artistic portion?
Thank you Atlas Billiards!!!!!!
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Sure Mr. Wilson, happy to, hopefully you will keep it as intended, Private.
I also wanted to include we must respect everyone like gentlemen. Example, Joey has a Dead Center Jig for drilling and boring dead nuts. I as many bought it. No one has ever shown a picture of it, that is the way things should be.
Thanks,
Tom
I also wanted to include we must respect everyone like gentlemen. Example, Joey has a Dead Center Jig for drilling and boring dead nuts. I as many bought it. No one has ever shown a picture of it, that is the way things should be.
Thanks,
Tom
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Off topic but Joey's fixture works great, worth every penny plus well made.
They have the money to do it, most of us don't. The new patent laws favor those companies, and crap on the little guy. We don't have the backing to get these patents, and even if we got it, no backing to fight the infringments. It takes lots of lawyer time to do that which equates to $$$$$$ I could have approached a company for the reversing switch I came up with that could be plugged in and didn't affect any wiring and try to do a partnership, etc. But as soon as I show them, they can run with it and market it as their own and just change the type of connectors on the cables and color of the box. Then the $$$$ battle begins and guess who the loser would be? The guy with the least amount of money.
I have seen a brilliant engineer design a speaker cluster rig that was awesome. He pitched it to a specialty mount company, after getting his patent, and they ended up stealing the basic concept, but changed enough that they won the court battle that he brought. He almost lost everything he had in the process to pay for the legal fees and ended up losing to the bigger pile of money. He has since recovered, but is much smarter nowadays. You wanna see it, you gotta pay for it.
In my opinion, the laws no longer protect the little guys like us, no matter what we spend, the big guys always win. It comes down to honor, and doing the honorable thing concerning another cuemaker's designs and just don't copy someone else's work without their permission. If we don't follow a set code as a whole, to protect everyone's ideas/designs, then we, as a whole, are no better than the chinese knock-off artists that everyone ***** about.
Just my take,
Dave
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David,
Lets look at what you just wrote and break it down some.
You told and showed someone something but in the end you got nothing but a little screwed over. You have a friend who told and showed and he got screwed over. He has smartened up and just does not tell and show anymore.
Knowing this why in the world would you publicly post I was not a person to do business with because I refused to give out meaningless to anyone but me information on my cue tips?
Now if you got a little guy in the right against a little guy in the wrong you go to Small Claims court, no big time lawyers.
If you have a little guy in the right and a big guy in the wrong and the little guy did some work to make something provable his own you have lawyers that will take the case on a percentage, zero out of pocket expence.
I mean many years ago a lady sued the big McD's because her coffe was to hot for 10 million dollars and won. Granted I believe it was appealed etc but I can promise you she walked with some money and didn't pay a lawyer .10 cents.
I will give you some free advice. If you have enough proof to put on this forum that Pen whatever stole your idea and profits from it I would go after them. If you don't I would edit the name out as it could be considered slander or libel, I get them confused but if you are that convinced the little guy loses, take it down before you become an example.
Lets look at what you just wrote and break it down some.
You told and showed someone something but in the end you got nothing but a little screwed over. You have a friend who told and showed and he got screwed over. He has smartened up and just does not tell and show anymore.
Knowing this why in the world would you publicly post I was not a person to do business with because I refused to give out meaningless to anyone but me information on my cue tips?
Now if you got a little guy in the right against a little guy in the wrong you go to Small Claims court, no big time lawyers.
If you have a little guy in the right and a big guy in the wrong and the little guy did some work to make something provable his own you have lawyers that will take the case on a percentage, zero out of pocket expence.
I mean many years ago a lady sued the big McD's because her coffe was to hot for 10 million dollars and won. Granted I believe it was appealed etc but I can promise you she walked with some money and didn't pay a lawyer .10 cents.
I will give you some free advice. If you have enough proof to put on this forum that Pen whatever stole your idea and profits from it I would go after them. If you don't I would edit the name out as it could be considered slander or libel, I get them confused but if you are that convinced the little guy loses, take it down before you become an example.
So far no one has stated that they have patents and have defended them successfully. Is there anyone on here that has and can shed some light on the subject?
If you re-read my post Tom, I didn't say that I got screwed over. My statement and point was clearly a 'What could happen so easily' statement. The main point I was trying to make is that no matter what protection one thinks they have, there are many ways around it when they have the resources and the little guy doesn't. I will delete the name just to make sure no one else gets confused and make the wrong conclusions.
Concerning your statement:
'Knowing this why in the world would you publicly post I was not a person to do business with because I refused to give out meaningless to anyone but me information on my cue tips?'
I will address that by PM.
Thanks,
Dave
If you re-read my post Tom, I didn't say that I got screwed over. My statement and point was clearly a 'What could happen so easily' statement. The main point I was trying to make is that no matter what protection one thinks they have, there are many ways around it when they have the resources and the little guy doesn't. I will delete the name just to make sure no one else gets confused and make the wrong conclusions.
Concerning your statement:
'Knowing this why in the world would you publicly post I was not a person to do business with because I refused to give out meaningless to anyone but me information on my cue tips?'
I will address that by PM.
Thanks,
Dave
The McDonald lawsuit was personal injury. According to my research, the woman just wanted for her medical bills covered. When corporate told her to pound sand, that is when it snowballed...
IMO, this is a much better example of someone who got screwed, fought back....and won big...
http://www.oncontracts.com/a-jury-c...ize-for-supposedly-jerking-around-a-supplier/
IMO, this is a much better example of someone who got screwed, fought back....and won big...
http://www.oncontracts.com/a-jury-c...ize-for-supposedly-jerking-around-a-supplier/
David,
Did you see Mr. Wilson come back and say Tom Hay is blowing smoke and Hot Air?
To bring up and discuss some cases would cause some injury to some and set this thread on fire but the answer is yes, there is protection and yes you have to work for it.
Asian knock offs are another subject. You already see Morri and Kamui counterfiets and yes if they decided to do slanted rings using stickers they could do it.
Oh, and yes, Joeys product is fantasic but Joey would not offer anything that was not.
Did you see Mr. Wilson come back and say Tom Hay is blowing smoke and Hot Air?
To bring up and discuss some cases would cause some injury to some and set this thread on fire but the answer is yes, there is protection and yes you have to work for it.
Asian knock offs are another subject. You already see Morri and Kamui counterfiets and yes if they decided to do slanted rings using stickers they could do it.
Oh, and yes, Joeys product is fantasic but Joey would not offer anything that was not.
No he hasn't, but at the same time, he hasn't confirmed either. We have no idea if or what you sent him.
as it was asked in public, but answered in PM. I am talking about cuebuilding design patents owned by small one man type shops, not owned by corps, like predator, Mcdermott, Tiger, Viking, etc. I'm asking about small guys with great designs, and infringment on those designs by big corps. Mentioning successful cases may encourage the small guy to do the patent process, and spend the $$$ to do it, if it works. Not sharing that info, to me, is more of a dis-service to the small guy, IMHO.There are many on here say it's easy to get a patent, and to sue to protect it, at no or low cost, but offer no real case to show it's true, which leads people to believe it's just hot air from someone on the net. If it is that easy,I would expect there to be less design theft, right? but it happens continously with no real punishment. Why should the Asian copiers be exempt? Is it that our laws are too weak?I just want to know what is the truth behind it all. I do know the laws have changed recently and it isn't easy to get a patent without corporate backing, which most of us don't have. BTW, I agree with the others and yourself about Joey and anything he offers. He always delivers exactly as he states, and it's always top notch. He doesn't do anything less than that. I would feel bound to silence, just by buying his device, out of loyalty to his beliefs, and would probably volunteer to eradicate anyone that violated his secrecy. (not really, unless it pays well)
Dave
I am sorry if I have led anyone to believe something is super easy and you won't have to work to protect, its a matter of how much you value something.
On the flip side you can always get hold of David and if he is not busy erraticating for Joey maybe he will erraticate for you. :smile:
On the flip side you can always get hold of David and if he is not busy erraticating for Joey maybe he will erraticate for you. :smile:
I truely think there is not a jig or gadget in qmaking that is
worth patenting. Trademarking ( for around $500 I think), yes.
I have another jig coming and it surely won't be patented.
You cannot trademark a jig. Trademarks are for logos and slogans. Trademarks also exist upon use. TM denotes that you are claiming a trademark. (r) indicates that it is a registered trademark.
Build me a wrap jig haha:thumbup:
My question is: how many cuemakers have come up with an idea and/or built a cue and then discovered someone had already made it?
If you got any letters from lawyers then it would be a waste of money for the person who hired the lawyer. It is my opinion that no court in the united states is going to stop any one else from using this decoration on their cues. Especially since it has been used for years in other cues but just not on that position.
In the united states you do not have copyright for pool cues. You can make a rendering of a pool cue and copyright that. You cannot copyright the cue itself.
Now if you make flat drawings of the design elements on your cues perhaps that is sufficient to protect them with copyright just as every drawing of mickey mouse is protected from unauthorized reproduction.
But I am not aware of anyone who has tried it.
Furthermore such a method could never take into account all possible design variations.
I have much more to say about this but for now will simply say that copyright is no protection for pool cues designs. But Thomas Wayne says he registers a copyright for all his cue designs so he evidently thinks it worth it. I suppose hitting someone with a threatening letter and an official notice of copyright would scare some people into compliance.
Fwiw I do think that finished cues should have some measure of protection but the really don't.
www.jbcases.com
In the interview that TAR did with Ernie Guterez he said that his cues have been copied and that he sued a couple of makers (Richard Black and Paul Mottey if memory serves me right) and won.
Dick
LOL, I am outta this thread. When someone says Thomas Wayne says he pays and puts a copyright on every cue he designs and makes and than says he wastes his time doing so, it is to much.
Were you not part of the thread where you and another both made cases with Spiderman as the design and I asked if either had the permission of Marvel to do so and got no answer?
Were you not part of the thread where you and another both made cases with Spiderman as the design and I asked if either had the permission of Marvel to do so and got no answer?
I did not make the cases you are referring to. And certainly one of the makers who did make a case with spiderman images did not license them. But again that is a different issue.
You can pay a small fee and register a copyright on anything you create whether or not the thing you are filing on is copyrightable or not.
We don't know if Thomas is registering his drawings or the actual cues. If the cues then it is unlikely to actually be copyright protected. But if facing someone who does not know the law a threating letter or a lawsuit is often enough to force capitulation.
And if I am wrong and cues can be protected under copyright then so much the better.
www.jbcases.com
It was mottey. Suing does not mean the plaintiff is going to win. Just the act of getting sued is enough though to get some people to stop copying.
www.jbcases.com