So is there footage of the famous 1990's Challenge of Champions dumping scandal?

sjm said:
There is definitely some truth in what you say about pool's failure to deliver the right product to the average Joe.

Nonetheless, pool was fixed in its inaugural session as a legally bettable sport in America. This is in no way comparable to the fact that most sports have, on rare occasion, suffered from fixing scandals. You never get a second chance to make a first impression, and this fix took pool off the map as a bettable sport.

Yes, it still stings and those who suggest that no damage was done are mistaken.
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I disagree. Pool tournaments had been held in casinos long before the COC. For whatever reason whoever was making the lines at this particular event was way out of line putting Mike Lebron at 20:1 on the money. As someone said earlier the sportsbook is trying to get even money on both sides so that they don't actually lose anything and make their money either way. In any event that particular book found out the hard way that they don't know enough about pool to be making lines on the matches.

Ever since Barry Hearn has been promoting pool tournaments bookies in England have been taking bets. The year Alex Pagulayan won the World 9 Ball Championship he is reported to have bet quite a large amount on himself with some really good odds against him.

You might not know this but at major events you can ususally find a couple people booking bets on the matches. Pool is certainly a sport that can be bet on. This particular incident is regrettable IF it went down as people think it did. But I really and honestly believe that it's a non-issue. After 96 the Camel Tour came and went, the PBT was around, there were a lot of high-profile events happening.

Even if nothing had happened and the COC went off without a blip and casinos started adding pool events to their rosters I really doubt that this would have made a difference. It hasn't made a difference to pool in England. In the USA pool would still have been a fringe sport even if people could legally bet on it in Las Vegas.

I just don't see that it would have ever had the appeal to anyone but hardcore pool fans to ever be anything but small time action for the sports books.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I have to strongly disagree here.
How many TAR matches have you seen? I probably bought about half of them since they started. I think if it wasn't' for the live chat, and the action room bets, many would quickly lose interest watching them.


20 years ago, the people producing videotaped pool events were professional TV people, and Accustats. The TV people had all the right cameras, and knew how to make a production interesting. Hell, they even had the occasional interesting tidbit about a player during the program. What they didn't know was the game of pool, so in some of the early broadcasts, they were showing the wrong thing on the table, such as the camera following the CB around the table after a shot.

The Accustats people were pool nuts, but slowly learning about the production side.

Today, Accustats has gotten very good on the production side, and the professional TV side is nonexistent for the most part.

But the TAR side, along with the other relatively new streamers, is like Accustats was 20 years ago. They are mostly a single or maybe two static cameras, and a guy on the mike that is often mumbling about stuff that has nothing to do with the match. There is almost zero effort to make the program exciting by offering background on the players. The matches are just boring static camera views of the table from overhead, for the most part. I don't believe I've yet to even see a telestrator on any of the streamers.

I'm not knocking TAR, it is for the pool fanatic, like we are. But to say their production value is better than what espn did 20 years ago, imo, means you didn't see many of their matches. On the positive side, almost every TAR match I have seen has increased in production value, as the years have gone on.

Pool matches are always going to be boring. Its showcasing the players that makes it interesting. IMO, today's streamers just show the match. They don't connect us with the players. That's fine for us fanatics, who will watch any and every pool match available, but it does nothing to build a new fan base.
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Mostly agree but I do think TAR has had at least one match where they had a jib boom and one or two extra camera men.

I have seen Justin's "light" setup and it's still a lot of equipment to move around the country.
 
I watched the match and heard the commentators mention the odds of LeBron winning. Then when I seen shots being missed by the players and even heard the commentators try to convince the public that the pressure is really great in this winner take all It became too apparent that something was going on with the players.

This is nothing new in pool. Some players have even been known to dump in calcuttas. :rolleyes:

I don't see anything wrong with it. Gamblers are gamblers and it is all part of the gamble. When you make a bet you are gambling that you will win and that includes all of the odds that everything will work in your favor. Even betting on NASCAR is a gamble as there always is a unexplained caution 3 laps from the end just to tighten up the pack to make it more exciting and help someone go from 1/2 lap down to end up winning. ;)



.
 
Well after finally watching it....hmm.

Was pretty sad, but not as painfully obvious as had been made out before. I mean, yes ,obvious, but for folks who knows nothing of pool and only little about the players, probably not so much.

Spanish mike missed fairly unsurprising shots, but buddy....oh my lord buddy.

That 8 he hit straight, then the combo...oh Lordy.


Despite all the furor over this, I think it's much ado about nothing. It didn't cripple pool. It's people taking a dive for money. Bg deal, happened in every sport you can imagine, and many times more flagrantly than this...and certainly for more money.
 
PoolJunkie216 said:
You being a dick is nothing new. People like you are ones I feel no sympathy for when something bad happens to them.
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Ooooooooh. You're breaking my heart with this. :D

Kind of late to be crying about it don't you think? (sorry, i am fresh out of tissues)
I mean, the links are posted already in the other thread for everyone to watch courtesy of someone who bought that DVD from ebay.

But that's OK. Don't let me stop you from having a good cry.

Oh yeah.
Right back at ya with the sympathy.:rolleyes:
 
Superstar, puffing out your chest and saying "hey I don't care that I'm a dick" doesn't make you any less of a dick.
 
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Luther Blissett said:
Superstar, puffing out your chest and saying "hey I don't care that I'm a dick" doesn't make you any less of a dick.
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If I was a dick to you, it was for a reason.

Whining about it way after the fact, isn't going to change the fact that you and others got all sorts of bent out of shape, simply because someone wouldn't upload the video for you.

Even after it was discovered that you could buy it, you STILL came on here and cried about it not being uploaded yet.

If you are going to cry about stuff, at least cry about something legitimate, like not receiving a product, or a deal gone wrong, but don't cry about being upset that you didn't get to mooch off of someone else.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
If I was a dick to you, it was for a reason.
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Yeah, reason being that you're a dick. :rolleyes:

Anyway, most of the whining in this thread appears to be from you after other users called you on your trolling ...and I see you're still at it. Maybe time to stop posting eh. :wink:

...And for those who don't have it, the links are: --> part one <-- and --> part two <--

(thanks to Spider1 for the heads up)
 
HAHAHAHAHAH!!! I just watched those videos for the first time.... WHAT A ****ING DUMP FEST. Argueably one of the best shot makers in the history of pool dogging those 1 particular shots THAT BADLY. What a ****ing dump fest HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh and that Mike Lebron dude kind of SUCKED. If he played anything like I saw in those video's he's got action with my ANY time (is he still alive/playing pool?)
 
How you going to bet?
Buddy Hall pays 8 to 5 , Mike La Bron pays 9 to 1; the last odds before the finals.
Even if you locked Mike in at 20 to 1 the sports book still made a profit.
 
Bigtruck said:
CJ says they bet again after this. Jay says they never bet again. blah blah blah (no offense blah blah)

Does anyone have any thoughts on what could change pool for the better? That would be too much work.

Personally I love the game, I love the eclectic group that makes up the game. I have no love for people that latch on to every negative word they hear and wanna shout it from the roof tops.....and for what? Personal entertainment?

There is probably 1000 positive things that have happened with pool players involved. Where are those threads? Oh yeah....buried with 4 or 5 responses.

How bout diggin up some of those threads???

Ray
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Ray,

I read & post what I want. Someone asked to see what Jay had written so I showed it. I didn't have to dig it up either, I knew where it was.

Some people have no love for people who want to pretend that there is no dark underbelly in the pool world.

ONB
 
Ah yes

Good to see this come to the front again. Some of our Legends are not opposed to taking a "dump".

Don
 
- from straightpool_99-


Full game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMpqzvk-OY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y12sL1oR2s

Listen to the commentary. The odds are repeatedly mentioned by the ESPN guy. Rempe doesn't seem to be very eager to talk about that particular subject. Allegedly he was in on it, as well as all the other players in the tournament, except Hopkins. Earl Strickland, to his credit, refused to be a part of it.

- me-
the second link is the last 3

The first link has coverage of the semis and finals,in the semis. The dude that Lebraun beat did not appear to be a pro caliber player and also seamed tight and nervous.They did say he won a pro-tourney in 79.I wonder what tourney that was and also how many players had to lay down to get him to the semis.
 
Thanks.

smoooothstroke said:
- from straightpool_99-


Full game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMpqzvk-OY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y12sL1oR2s

Listen to the commentary. The odds are repeatedly mentioned by the ESPN guy. Rempe doesn't seem to be very eager to talk about that particular subject. Allegedly he was in on it, as well as all the other players in the tournament, except Hopkins. Earl Strickland, to his credit, refused to be a part of it.

- me-
the second link is the last 3

The first link has coverage of the semis and finals,in the semis. The dude that Lebraun beat did not appear to be a pro caliber player and also seamed tight and nervous.They did say he won a pro-tourney in 79.I wonder what tourney that was and also how many players had to lay down to get him to the semis.
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Smoothstroke.

Thanks for posting the link to the games. Anyone who has watched Buddy Hall play pool knows that he was/is a master of the cue ball.

Having watched many of his videos it is quite obvious he was dumping in the Lebron match.

Greed got to the ones in on the scam. They are very lucking Vito didn't come calling.

Don
 
As another theory, maybe they were all distracted by the hideously ugly table?

Seriously, that swirling fake marble is ugly. Almost as bad as the old Elephant Balls.

One observation on the game that made it 8-8, if Buddy really wanted to throw it, he's plenty good enough to have pulled the cue ball back a little more when he shot the 8, so as to make sure to leave a good shot on the 8. It would have been credible, since it would also have left him better on the 9.
 

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smoooothstroke said:
- from straightpool_99-


The dude that Lebraun beat did not appear to be a pro caliber player and also seamed tight and nervous.
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By "dude" (that) "did not appear to be pro caliber", do you mean Kim Davenport? I'd say pro caliber is a slight understatement...

What made me go "hmmm" was Buddy taking multiple swings at scratching in the side pocket. No reason to go anywhere near that, he knows better than anyone on the planet.
 
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