Am I playing too fast???

P

Playin4Dinner

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We can go on forever about my mechanics, stroke, stance or weak bridge... The question here is just tempo, nothing else....


I tried slowing my tempo down and it's actually hurt my game... One of my close friends keeps harping on me about playing too fast... Says that I would make less errors and be more consistent if I slowed my game down... He was once an A player but teaches more than anything now....

Video is a 12-ball ghost compilation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIBb6Tx1vZY


Any constructive input is greatly appreciated....
 
I only watched the 1st rack, but IMHO I would say your speed of play is fine. You know what you want to do & are ready sometimes before the ball even stops. That is not a bad thing. Having said that, I would add that if for some reason the cue ball goes where you do not expect it, then I would take just a breif moment to make sure you can still do what you want. Don't shoot too quickly just because you can still make the ball you planned on making & then find out that the ball again went where you did not want it to go.

I am a quick tempo golfer. When I tried to slow down it was terrible.

Does your mentor explain WHY he thinks YOU should slow down? If he has a legitimate reason & it makes sense to you then okay, if not why would you slow down for no specific reason.

Just my humble $0.02.

Regards &
 
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Ever hear the phrase "Don't overthink it"?

Maybe that's your issue. Slowing your tempo puts the conscious brain ahead of the muscle memory + instinct.

Play your way!
 
I'm at work so I didn't watch the video but here's what I think about fast play in general:

I love fast play. There's nothing better than watching someone rip through a 9 or 10 ball rack but....

What do you do when you are really feeling the pressure? When you are in a tough gambling match or in the finals of some tournament with people watching? Do the nerves make you slow down a bit? I think for most people they do.

Also, some games just have different rhythms to them. For me, playing bar table 8 ball can be really frustrating because you really have to slow down. I would much rather play fast but it's not always possible.

I think there are two options for the fast player. You can just train yourself to say screw it, I will always play the same speed. Good luck with this. Try playing some 14.1 or one-pocket this way. The other option is to have a couple of different speeds that you are comfortable playing at. This way if you're forced to slow down a bit, you won't be so anxious.

One thing to keep in mind though is - what increases or decreases your speed of play isn't the speed of your cueing, it's the speed of your thinking. I try to keep my cueing the same. Some times I just have to slow down my thinking.
 
Playin4Dinner said:
We can go on forever about my mechanics, stroke, stance or weak bridge... The question here is just tempo, nothing else....


I tried slowing my tempo down and it's actually hurt my game... One of my close friends keeps harping on me about playing too fast... Says that I would make less errors and be more consistent if I slowed my game down... He was once an A player but teaches more than anything now....

Video is a 12-ball ghost compilation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIBb6Tx1vZY


Any constructive input is greatly appreciated....
Click to expand...

Your tempo is not an awful lot faster than mine, and I consider myself to be in-between a slow and a fast player. Your tempo is fine. Your close friend should leave you alone about your tempo/speed. FTR, you TOO seem to be an A player, at least from what I see on the video.

Maniac
 
For practice no... In serious competition, I would think about my shots longer to make sure I am about to shoot the correct shot and stay down on the ball a bit longer before shooting it, just to make sure I make it.

You play very well though and the above is just my opinion.

(also, slightly off topic, I think 12 ball is a bit easier then 10 ball as you are pretty much guaranteed a ball going in on the break)

good shooting.
 
What I think your friend was complaining about is not exactly your tempo, but a tendency to not think your way through every shot carefully.

Once you get pretty good at shotmaking and know how to move the cue ball, it's easy to get a little lazy about planning. Especially in rotation games. "I'll just make sure I have an angle and I'm not stuck to the rail, and I should be good to go".

Most of the time that's true. But every so often it will bite you.

For example, rack #1 had only one blunder, and that was getting on the wrong side of the 9. I think a slower, more methodical type might have walked around the table to visualize the invisible line from the 9 ball to the pocket. You know that if you're below that line, it's easy, but if you're above that line, bad stuff can happen.

You might also have taken an extra second to control how fat you hit the 7 and how much reverse spin you put on the ball, to make absolutely sure you didn't end up stuck on the rail.

It might seem like a minor nitpick when you ran all the other balls really nicely, but that's the b*tch about rotation games... all the balls before don't count if you screw up on the last 2 or 3 :)

Between your shotmaking, nice touch with the cue ball, and speed control... pretty much the only thing that can keep you from running out is bad planning.
 
Playin4Dinner said:
We can go on forever about my mechanics, stroke, stance or weak bridge... The question here is just tempo, nothing else....


I tried slowing my tempo down and it's actually hurt my game... One of my close friends keeps harping on me about playing too fast... Says that I would make less errors and be more consistent if I slowed my game down... He was once an A player but teaches more than anything now....

Video is a 12-ball ghost compilation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIBb6Tx1vZY


Any constructive input is greatly appreciated....
Click to expand...

That's about the same speed I play, even faster in 9 ball or if i'm just stroking, never had a problem unless I slowed down too? just keep knockin em in! my 2 cents
 
Only thing I see wrong is that Red Cloth. :D however as far as your game is concerned I think everyone should play at the speed your shooting at. Your stoke is fine, your aim is fine. Just don't rush through a shot, I think if you get on a tough shot you will automatically slow down on the shot and naturally take more time to execute. Only other suggestion would be work on your break to park the cueball in the middle of the table on the break even when playing the ghost, only take that initial BIH when absolutely neccesary.

Good Luck, Black Cat :cool:
 
Playin4Dinner said:
We can go on forever about my mechanics, stroke, stance or weak bridge... The question here is just tempo, nothing else....


I tried slowing my tempo down and it's actually hurt my game... One of my close friends keeps harping on me about playing too fast... Says that I would make less errors and be more consistent if I slowed my game down... He was once an A player but teaches more than anything now....

Video is a 12-ball ghost compilation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIBb6Tx1vZY


Any constructive input is greatly appreciated....
Click to expand...

You're doing everything you need to do before shooting, so no, I think you're playing rythym is on the fast side, but your tempo is fine. Actually, you make a difficult game look too easy!

CreeDo has a great point. I have to remind myself that even on easy layouts, it's important to consider the angle on every single shot.

A word of advice - in competition, try to keep the same tempo as you use in practice. That's the hard part.
 
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Best answer

CreeDo said:
What I think your friend was complaining about is not exactly your tempo, but a tendency to not think your way through every shot carefully.

Once you get pretty good at shotmaking and know how to move the cue ball, it's easy to get a little lazy about planning. Especially in rotation games. "I'll just make sure I have an angle and I'm not stuck to the rail, and I should be good to go".

Most of the time that's true. But every so often it will bite you.

For example, rack #1 had only one blunder, and that was getting on the wrong side of the 9. I think a slower, more methodical type might have walked around the table to visualize the invisible line from the 9 ball to the pocket. You know that if you're below that line, it's easy, but if you're above that line, bad stuff can happen.

You might also have taken an extra second to control how fat you hit the 7 and how much reverse spin you put on the ball, to make absolutely sure you didn't end up stuck on the rail.

It might seem like a minor nitpick when you ran all the other balls really nicely, but that's the b*tch about rotation games... all the balls before don't count if you screw up on the last 2 or 3 :)

Between your shotmaking, nice touch with the cue ball, and speed control... pretty much the only thing that can keep you from running out is bad planning.
Click to expand...

Creedo has the best answer here.

I'd add that some shots require a bit more planning than others, and recognizing this is key.

The idea that you can "overthink" is misleading. You need to think as much as is required for each shot. More important than how much time you take planning is NOT to be planning when you're down on the shot. Plan appropriately, and then assume your normal pace of shot execution.
 
Dont know if you've ever seen bobby mcgrath play, but i'd swear he jogs around the table and doesn't take a practice stroke at times, and he's a very high caliber player.

You don't seem to be rushing your shots. People before me have commented about taking your time when something needs to be thought through.
 
Well, if you are playin for dinner, your speed would change depending on how hungry you are.
 
ENGLISH! said:
I only watched the 1st rack, but IMHO I would say your speed of play is fine. You know what you want to do & are ready sometimes before the ball even stops. That is not a bad thing. Having said that, I would add that if for some reason the cue ball goes where you do not expect it, then I would take just a breif moment to make sure you can still do what you want. Don't shoot too quickly just because you can still make the ball you planned on making & then find out that the ball again went where you did not want it to go.

I am a quick tempo golfer. When I tried to slow down it was terrible.

Does your mentor explain WHY he thinks YOU should slow down? If he has a legitimate reason & it makes sense to you then okay, if not why would you slow down for no specific reason.

Just my humble $0.02.

Regards &
Click to expand...

English, tx for your input... I realize now that I posted the wrong video here... I should make a video of when the wheels fall off... That's what he based it on and unfortunately the video doesn't help much... Can't really see it since I'm running out... I need to compile a video of failed outs to work off of....

Inferno said:
Ever hear the phrase "Don't overthink it"?

Maybe that's your issue. Slowing your tempo puts the conscious brain ahead of the muscle memory + instinct.

Play your way!
Click to expand...

Inferno, tx for taking your time to respond... I really haven't spent enough time working on it to allow results... But I do know I enjoy the game less playing this way... All my favorite players in the game hit this gear where the game looks effortless... I try to do the same...

TheThaiger said:
When you never miss, why slow down?
Click to expand...

Thiager, as stated earlier... I feel that I posted the wrong video for members to critique... I will try to compile a video of fails instead of outs... Tx for looking and responding...

BasementDweller said:
I'm at work so I didn't watch the video but here's what I think about fast play in general:

I love fast play. There's nothing better than watching someone rip through a 9 or 10 ball rack but....

What do you do when you are really feeling the pressure? When you are in a tough gambling match or in the finals of some tournament with people watching? Do the nerves make you slow down a bit? I think for most people they do.

Also, some games just have different rhythms to them. For me, playing bar table 8 ball can be really frustrating because you really have to slow down. I would much rather play fast but it's not always possible.

I think there are two options for the fast player. You can just train yourself to say screw it, I will always play the same speed. Good luck with this. Try playing some 14.1 or one-pocket this way. The other option is to have a couple of different speeds that you are comfortable playing at. This way if you're forced to slow down a bit, you won't be so anxious.

One thing to keep in mind though is - what increases or decreases your speed of play isn't the speed of your cueing, it's the speed of your thinking. I try to keep my cueing the same. Some times I just have to slow down my thinking.
Click to expand...

Basement Dweller, tx for your well thought out response... You make some good points... My tempo under pressure is slower than playing the ghost... Tempo also varies with other games, as you stated... Much slower in 8-ball, 14.1, etc...




Maniac said:
Your tempo is not an awful lot faster than mine, and I consider myself to be in-between a slow and a fast player. Your tempo is fine. Your close friend should leave you alone about your tempo/speed. FTR, you TOO seem to be an A player, at least from what I see on the video.

Maniac
Click to expand...

Maniac, tx for looking, your input and the compliment... Unfortunately, my speed vs the ghost and having some heat put on my a$$ are miles away... Thats where I believe true speed is defined... Ghost play gives pressure play the 7... There are glimpses of an A player but just no consistency...

I'll be 34 this month, work 7 days a week, and have my 2 year old girl 3 days a week... What was once my world is now only an escape for me... I'm perfectly content with this and can honestly say I have no regrets... There are much bigger/better things in this life than banging balls... But damn it's fun... :D

I love my buddy like a brother... He got me into this brutal, beautiful game 15 years ago... He's taught me alot in our time... We've walked out of many rooms flush or bust... I used to stake him with my poker winnings and play in small games on the side... He's also sabotaged my game a few times... Forcing me to use a closed bridge was a 6 month debacle before going back to what's natural... Figured I'd come on here before letting this tempo issue do the same...


Icon of Sin said:
For practice no... In serious competition, I would think about my shots longer to make sure I am about to shoot the correct shot and stay down on the ball a bit longer before shooting it, just to make sure I make it.

You play very well though and the above is just my opinion.

(also, slightly off topic, I think 12 ball is a bit easier then 10 ball as you are pretty much guaranteed a ball going in on the break)

good shooting.
Click to expand...

Icon of Sin, tx for your input and compliment... You couldn't be more right about 12-ball vs 10-ball on THIS particular table... I've tried both break cues, varied break spots/speeds and cannot make a ball on 10-ball break... I'd be fine with that if the balls didn't cluster... Seems like a ball is almost always dead in 12-ball and much better spreads... Sounds crazy with 2 extra balls but for THIS table, it's a fact...



CreeDo said:
What I think your friend was complaining about is not exactly your tempo, but a tendency to not think your way through every shot carefully.

Once you get pretty good at shotmaking and know how to move the cue ball, it's easy to get a little lazy about planning. Especially in rotation games. "I'll just make sure I have an angle and I'm not stuck to the rail, and I should be good to go".

Most of the time that's true. But every so often it will bite you.

For example, tendency to not think your way through every shot carefully[/B].

Once you get pretty good at shotmaking and know how to move the cue ball, it's easy to get a little lazy about planning. Especially in rotation games. "I'll just make sure I have an angle and I'm not stuck to the rail, and I should be good to go".

Most of the time that's true. But every so often it will bite you.

For example, rack #1 had only one blunder, and that was getting on the wrong side of the 9. I think a slower, more methodical type might have walked around the table to visualize the invisible line from the 9 ball to the pocket. You know that if you're below that line, it's easy, but if you're above that line, bad stuff can happen.

You might also have taken an extra second to control how fat you hit the 7 and how much reverse spin you put on the ball, to make absolutely sure you didn't end up stuck on the rail.

It might seem like a minor nitpick when you ran all the other balls really nicely, but that's the b*tch about rotation games... all the balls before don't count if you screw up on the last 2 or 3 :)

Between your shotmaking, nice touch with the cue ball, and speed control... pretty much the only thing that can keep you from running out is bad planning.
Click to expand...


Creedo, pretty sure you just explained the issue at hand... But much better than he did... I do see some spots of carelessness in this video after watching back though it again... It's almost as if I'm not respecting the game... This does happen to me when I play alone too often... I played much better/consistent when there's always a consequence for getting out of line or dogging an out... Something is on the line (cash, tourney, league, etc)

My train of thought is different than most players my speed... I try to think of where I don't want to be... Instead of where I want to be... Attempting to play a perfect, meticulous game is just way to stressful too me... Plus, I feel that I'm pretty honest about my game... What I've seen in both poker and pool is players constantly lying to themselves... Their perception vs reality doesn't exist in the same galaxy....

After going through this thread, I realize I haven't been using video correctly... I should spend as much time or more taping what I'm doing wrong... Instead of keeping nice outs and erasing dead pool...




Black Cat 5791 said:
Only thing I see wrong is that Red Cloth. :D however as far as your game is concerned I think everyone should play at the speed your shooting at. Your stoke is fine, your aim is fine. Just don't rush through a shot, I think if you get on a tough shot you will automatically slow down on the shot and naturally take more time to execute. Only other suggestion would be work on your break to park the cueball in the middle of the table on the break even when playing the ghost, only take that initial BIH when absolutely neccesary.

Good Luck, Black Cat :cool:
Click to expand...

Black Cat, the red is very brutal indeed... It is my buddy's gameroom, it's just down the road, I have my own key, no table time, and our pool room out here in the sticks is garbage... Only one regulation table and it's been gaffed by the owners... Every rail plays differently...

Couldn't agree more about the break and BIH... Ghost play is the best time to work on your break... I do try to practice both these things... It all goes out the window though if I hit balls alone for more than an hour... I lack the mental toughness for this game that I once possessed... Just ordered Pleasures of Small Motions... Hope this helps... Link below if interested

http://www.amazon.com/Pleasures-Small-Motions-Mastering-Billiards/dp/1585745391/ref=tmm_pap_title_0


TATE said:
You're doing everything you need to do before shooting, so no, I think you're playing rythym is on the fast side, but your tempo is fine. Actually, you make a difficult game look too easy!

CreeDo has a great point. I have to remind myself that even on easy layouts, it's important to consider the angle on every single shot.

A word of advice - in competition, try to keep the same tempo as you use in practice. That's the hard part.
Click to expand...


Tate, sound advice indeed... It's seems like the more demanding the out is... The better chance I have of getting out... Sounds backwards right? It's true though... I have trouble maintaining focus on the easiest layouts...

I rarely ever get out to compete these days... But I do think keeping the same tempo regardless of play is huge...





Just want to thank all the posters on here that took their time to respond and give valuable input... I'm overwhelmed by the response this thread received in just one day.... Thanks everyone...
 
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Your style of play is casual, like you're taking a relaxed stroll in the park. It's fine as long as you can do it under pressure. Not many players can. Efren is one who can but he's a rarity.

If you find that you start to tighten up under pressure, you should probably have a pre-shot routine that you can consciously use to get yourself back on track, or you might find yourself getting lost at a crucial time.
 
Black Cat 5791 said:
Only thing I see wrong is that Red Cloth. :D however as far as your game is concerned I think everyone should play at the speed your shooting at. Your stoke is fine, your aim is fine. Just don't rush through a shot, I think if you get on a tough shot you will automatically slow down on the shot and naturally take more time to execute. Only other suggestion would be work on your break to park the cueball in the middle of the table on the break even when playing the ghost, only take that initial BIH when absolutely neccesary.

Good Luck, Black Cat :cool:
Click to expand...

I was going to say the same about the cloth. Worst part is the red dye in the chalk, messes up the ferrule and shaft a lot worse than the green chalk.

Don't see anything wrong with the speed, all the balls were out in the open so not much to think about, and you did not jump down to the shot and try to hit it in half a second. You have a few less prectice strokes than some, but nothing bad. I see some people shoot like they are on a timer, they act if they don't hit the cue ball the second the tip is near it they'll loose their turn.
 
I mean, you're practicing so I see nothing wrong with this tempo. If you were playing Efren Reyes and running out like this, people would say you have ice in your veins. It's very difficult to slow-down your pace when you're just practicing since there's no penalty for missing.

With that said, I simply can't say anything negative about this video. I watched the first two racks and you seem to get perfect on every shot. You played each shot well. There wasn't much to think about other than make the ball and move the rock into position which you did every time. What would be interesting is to see an actual match, preferably against a peer and ideally in a tournament, league match or for money.

If you're making the correct decisions AND you're pocketing your shots, then what is to gain from taking more time? You'll need to post something where a mistake was made and taking your time could have yielded a better result. Right now, there's no proof of such. That could be because you haven't captured this moment on video OR it could be because you're not rushing at all.
 
Rule of Thumb:



Too fast and mental errors occur

Too slow and physical errors occur.​



fwiw,

Jeff, half-fast, Livingston
 
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