Declaration of "not an instructor" status -- do we have it all backwards?

[ENGLISH!]

Bruce:

I don't think you should apologize. Honestly. You quite eloquently stated the flaws in Rick's argument and stance, and you should know by now that when cornered like this, this is how he responds -- "you don't get to tell me what to do," "it would've been appreciated more if this were communicated to me privately," nit-picking single words out of his own sentences and writing paragraphs about his usage of those words (where every other word is underlined), etc. You should know the drill by now.

Rick is definitely hung up on this "3 days" thing -- as well as other folks are -- which was your point, and was best served for public consumption as you did. And yes, if he'd taken the time to read the links for himself, instead of posting the questions here (asking to be spoon-fed), it would save on a lot of unnecessary extra traffic in this and other threads.

I haven't been keeping up with this thread as much as I'd like, but I check in from time to time (hopefully once a day).

Keep on keeping on.

Best,
-Sean

A post typical of a troll. Make a non responsive post to denigrate a person with nothing to do with the topic(s) at hand in hope of starting a flame war. As Tim has said you probably don't even realize some of the things that you do.

 

[sfleinen]

A post typical of a troll. Make a non responsive post to denigrate a person with nothing to do with the topic(s) at hand in hope of starting a flame war. As Tim has said you probably don't even realize some of the thing that you do.

LOL!!

I *love* this part -- "...a person with nothing to do with the topic(s) at hand"?? You had EVERYTHING to do with the topics at hand. It is *YOU* we are discussing; it is *YOUR* historic stance on this topic; it is *YOUR* replies to the thread; and it is *YOUR* practices of not doing your due diligence to keep up with other posters' suggested references / reading material to answer your own questions.

What do you think this is, Rick? Ask for people to spoon-feed you, and when they refuse -- and call you out on your nit-picking activities which serves only to avoid your due-diligence responsibilities -- you get to call them "trolls"?

No pal. As the old expression goes -- and as defined in the Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (1913):

"To be outspoken, blunt, even to the point of rudeness; to call things by their proper names without any 'beating about the bush'."

This is not trolling. And it's quite hilarious the way you apply this term -- it's like you just learned the definition of the word, and, like a kid with a new toy, you don't know how to use it properly. Since you are experimenting with this new term, you might also want to look up the phrase, "retreating back under the bridge."

-Sean

 

[ENGLISH!]

recognized vs certified level?

Rick...As usual, you fail miserably at understanding the concept of the process of becoming a "qualified" instructor. Just because someone desires to take the instructor course doesn't mean they will be accepted, or be able to pass the tests given. Steve is NOW a certified instructor in the PBIA program. He has passed the requirements necessary for the entry level certification. He does NOT have to wait 2 years to upgrade to the next level. There certainly is, as Fran pointed out, some confusion in the "labels" of certification levels, in using the terms "Recognized" (Level 1)and "Certified" (Level 2). Advanced and Master certification are much more clear, as a label. I did not withhold any information on the certication process, nor did I misstate anything. You, as usual, want to nitpick every word, phraseology, concept, or label, to make is seem like it's some "secret society". The PBIA certified instructor program is designed for one thing, and that is to provide a material process on how to teach others how to teach themselves to become better poolplayers. The PBIA also serves the sport in terms of creating a professional association, where any instructor, if they choose, may join, and receive the benefits of said organization. It also serves as somewhat of a "clearing house" where anybody can search out a professional certified instructor, in their local area. Certainly many areas are not served by a professional certified instructor...yet. That will change in time, and there is a certain power in numbers.

For the time being you have instructors like myself and Randy, who are willing and able to travel to serve the needs of people who have no access in their local area. IMO Steve will make an excellent instructor. He has the requisite teaching skills (and had them before pursuing PBIA certification), the playing knowledge, and the passion for passing that knowledge along to others. As he mentioned, what I gave him was an organized format. He is free to utilize the materials I supplied him with, or create his own...just as he is free to teach any methodology (SPF or not). I believe the SPF process is superior, for many reasons. Apparently many instructors do as well. The lion's share (60-70%) of PBIA instructors were certified through our SPF methodology. It continues to amaze me how you just want to be a "pot stirrer" (like Thaiger). Either lead, follow, or get the f*ck out the way! I choose to be a leader.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

As usual for you, you make twisted & distorted statements & attribute them to individuals as their thoughts which is deception used for your purpose.

If you can do so honestly, please clarify one point regading Steve's certification, which He not I brought up in his 'tell me what you think' tread. Is he now certified at the entry level of 'recognized' instructor or is he certified at the secondary 'certified' instructor level?

You had the opportunity to make that clear in post#18 of that thread but for wahtever reason did not do so. Perhaps if you had, much of this topic 'dissussion' & related vitriol could have been averted.

If you would, please clarify Steve's level of certifcation?

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick, are you being obtuse on purpose?

Yes, pool is a very complex sport that MOST persons cannot figure out on their own. Even world champions, road warriors and master level players learned "stuff" from one another at some point and time.

And you keep bringing up the 3 day course..... Well, everyone has to start somewhere, but even "recogonized" instructors know or should know their limitations.

And the 3 days course, provided by a Master Instructor can and does bring into many of the complex variables related to pool playing and pool instruction. But did anyone, at anytime, say that the 3 day course provided everything they needed to know about pool ??

I don't know anyone that provides the 3 day course without being thoroughly vetted, and to make sure they actually know how to play the game at a decent level. Most that would even have the interest would have to be pretty good players, would you not think so?

I don't play hockey, and never did. For the life of me I could NOT imagine going to obtain some "coaching" certification so I could teach hockey......and also pay for the priviledge ???

And Bruce was absolutely right. If you are confused about the "instructor training", then you should do your homework before you post on here because you should have adequate information to speak intelligently on the subject, rather than criticize those who did not "explain" the process to your personal satisfaction. You kinda have a chip on your should but not really sure why?

I certainly do not mean to be obtuse on purpose. I think it has now been made clear that the initial PBIA 'certification' is that of 'recognized' while the secondary is actually that of 'certified'. So when Scot Lee & others refer to a 'certified instructor' & seem to place so much value in that designation, there is certainly room for misunderstanding of that term. As Fran has pointed out technically it can be refering to the entry level of 'recognized' as the PBIA has certified them in the classification of 'recognized'.

As I have stated, it certainly seems more reasonable to be classified as 'certified' after two(2) years of on the job, so to speak, especially if learning to play pool is so complex.

I also do not have a chip on my shoulder, I merely asked a question & then expressed my surprise regarding 3 days to become a 'certified' instructor. That would have been the end of it except for many responses to defend the process. I merely responded to those defenses that seemed to be directed at me & my surprise.

Ultimately Mr. Avlon & Fran have made it clear. I think the differential of the two classifications is a good thing.

However I think allowing one to refer to a 'recognized' instructor as 'certified' is a slight to the truely 'certified' classification, at least in my opinion

Regards &

 

[boyersj]

Guys, sheesh.

I have been trained to the "recognized" instructor level. I have to submit some paperwork yet for it to be completely official and available on the PBIA website.

I KNOW there are better things to discuss than this. All of this over terminology. For the record, I am red/green color deficient - I don't get a lot of people stirred up when I call the color orange, "red". So please excuse me for my mistake, but I can't understand this reaction using "certified" for becoming a "Recognized PBIA Instructor".

I hope that clears this up!

 

[ENGLISH!]

LOL!!

I *love* this part -- "...a person with nothing to do with the topic(s) at hand"?? You had EVERYTHING to do with the topics at hand. It is *YOU* we are discussing; it is *YOUR* historic stance on this topic; it is *YOUR* replies to the thread; and it is *YOUR* practices of not doing your due diligence to keep up with other posters' suggested references / reading material to answer your own questions.

What do you think this is, Rick? Ask for people to spoon-feed you, and when they refuse -- and call you out on your nit-picking activities which serves only to avoid your due-diligence responsibilities -- you get to call them "trolls"?

No pal. As the old expression goes -- and as defined in the Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (1913):

"To be outspoken, blunt, even to the point of rudeness; to call things by their proper names without any 'beating about the bush'."

This is not trolling. And it's quite hilarious the way you apply this term -- it's like you just learned the definition of the word, and, like a kid with a new toy, you don't know how to use it properly. Since you are experimenting with this new term, you might also want to look up the phrase, "retreating back under the bridge."

-Sean

Thank you for making the point that you have made & for attempting to make the others.

However it is quite obvious that you are mistaken of at least one thing.

I am certainly not your 'pal'.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Guys, sheesh.

I have been trained to the "recognized" instructor level. I have to submit some paperwork yet for it to be completely official and available on the PBIA website.

I KNOW there are better things to discuss than this. All of this over terminology. For the record, I am red/green color deficient - I don't get a lot of people stirred up when I call the color orange, "red". So please excuse me for my mistake, but I can't understand this reaction using "certified" for becoming a "Recognized PBIA Instructor".

I hope that clears this up!

Steve,

Please do not think that you or your particular situation is the focus of this discussion. I am very happy for you & have stated that it seems to me that you will be a fine asset to the instructor community.

I merely expressed my surprise to the process of becoming s 'certified' instructor & it took off & even jumped threads.

Now some here on AZB have a better understanding of the term 'certified' that is so often used here without each individual having to leave this site & go to the PBIA site for an explantion.

As far I am concerned, I agree with you, the discussion should get back onto the more broad topic if there is more to be discussed in that area.

Having said that, I also think that this is one issue that is somewhat in context of the main topic of classifications, instructor, non-instuctor, 'certified' instructor, etc.

Regards, Best Wishes to You, &

 

[Scott Lee]

Rick...Don't have to, since Steve "cleared it up" for you. Apparently only YOU didn't have enough reading comprehension skills to understand how the PBIA process works...even though you were provided with the information (several times by several posters), as well as links to the site. LMAO Have you got it now?

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

If you would, please clarify Steve's level of certifcation?

 

[ENGLISH!]

Go Scott. Tell it like it really is. But remember what we have learned about deaf ears.

I like your post
POPS

I do not have deaf ears & I CAN READ TOO. Mr. Lees use of distortion & mis-quotes as a tactic rarely ever result in telling it 'like it really is' & can often result in one forming an incorrect conclusion as is IMHO often his real intention so as to suit his purposes.

 

[KRJ]

However I think allowing one to refer to a 'recognized' instructor as 'certified' is a slight to the truely 'certified' classification, at least in my opinion

Regards &

Really ?? This is your tag line "I'm not certified & I'm not a paid instructor."

Yet, here you are in the instructor thread, but you're telling others on what they should and should NOT call themselves.... kind of ironic,, I mean, just a little

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick...Don't have to, since Steve "cleared it up" for you. Apparently only YOU didn't have enough reading comprehension skills to understand how the PBIA process works...even though you were provided with the information (several times by several posters), as well as links to the site. LMAO Have you got it now?

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Despite your incorrect assessment of my reading comprehension, it has now been made clear on AZB that a 'certified' instuctor' to which you so often refer may only be an individual that has just been tutored by I assume a paid tutor for 3 days in the comperhension of a syllabus and then judged to have passed a test of said syllabus information by the same paid tutor.

A 'certified' instructor can actually be an instructor that has merely been 'certified' to the classification of 'recognized' insrtuctor with little to no experience in actually teaching anything in regards to billiards. As ChicagoRJ has said, one has to start some where. I understand that even with my Scott Lee assessed reading comprehension skills.

I also understand that when you reference a 'certified instructor' that it does not necessarily mean what IMHO many on AZB might have thought it to mean.

As I have stated elsewhere, I am not opposed to anyone seeking & getting lessons from ANYONE that one wishes to solicit lessons.

However, I would certainly suggest that one do their 'due diligence' to research the instructor's experience in teaching prior to laying down one's money to receive instuction from what might amount to a novice instructor. Unless oneself is a beginner or novice then I would think any level instructor would be of benefit.

If you wish to resort or I should say continue with your arrogant & condescending attitude along with your word twisting & distrotions I can respond accordingly. It seems your arrogance simply will not allow you to leave well enough alone. I do not think word wars between you & I would be a good thing for AZB, but if you wish to provoke such, as you did with your assessment of my reading comprehenion, etc. while answering a simple question, that as you stated no longer needed to be answered, as it had already been answered, I can repsond accordingly.

As the question had already been answered, what was your true intention of the above quoted post? I'll leave that to the rest of the AZB population to determine for themselves.

IMHO You are not a very good public relations man with regards to promoting what I assume is your livelihood. Perhaps the best thing for me to do is to put you back on ignor.

Now here comes the bombardment from all Scott Lee 'affiliates'.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Really ?? This is your tag line "I'm not certified & I'm not a paid instructor."

That's not my 'tag line'. It has been suggested that anyone posting in the Ask the Instuctor sub-forum that is not an 'instuctor' which is the subject of debate, make it clear that they are such. I have gladly & honestly complied with that suggestion.

Yet, here you are in the instructor thread, but you're telling others on what they should and should NOT call themselves.... kind of ironic,, I mean, just a little

I'm not telling anyone what to call themselves. I merely expressed my opinion with regards to the different calssifications. I see no irony.

Did my two(2) tier opinion strike a bad cord with you?

Regards &

 

[KRJ]

[/COLOR]


I'm not telling anyone what to call themselves. I merely express my opinion with regards to the different calssifications. I see no irony.

Regards &

Well, of course you don't see the irony, I'm not really sure why I thought you would :wink:

But it is folks like yourself why I don't post in these threads anymore to be perfectly honest. It's just not worth the trouble and aggravation to me. Again, you don't seem like a bad guy, but whether or not you want to believe it, you do have a very large chip on your shoulder. I don't mind the back and forth in NPR, but I'm just not going to do it here.

_____________________________________________________________

RJ Wilkinson - "shootpool2004@yahoo.com"
ACS Level 3 Instructor (Advanced)
House Pro - Rack'em Up Chicago
Former Staff Instructor - College of Pool & Billiards - "CUE U"

 

[ENGLISH!]

_____________________________________________________________

RJ Wilkinson - "shootpool2004@yahoo.com"
ACS Level 3 Instructor (Advanced)
House Pro - Rack'em Up Chicago
Former Staff Instructor - College of Pool & Billiards - "CUE U"

Now that is all relevant information that is good to know.

 

[bbb]

rick
fwiw
you seem to be an antagonizer
icbw
its ok if you put me on your ignore list.....
but
thats how i see it
for those that read his posts
some are good but some just want to stir the sh@t in my opinion
also this may blow some wind out of your sails but i dont want to discuss it
its my opinion
i dont want to debate it
icbw
larry (bbb)

 

[ENGLISH!]

rick
fwiw
you seem to be an antagonizer
icbw
its ok if you put me on your ignore list.....
but
thats how i see it
for those that read his posts
some are good but some just want to stir the sh@t in my opinion
also this may blow son=me wind out of your sails but i dont want to discuss it
its my opinion
i dont want to debate it
icbw
larry (bbb)

larry, (if that is who you really are)

I'm sorry you feel that way about me as that is not my intent,

At least you used the phrase 'seem to be' & you are cetainly entitled to your opinion.

Why would I need to put you on ignore? So far you have done nothing to warrant such action, or were you referring to some other identity, or do you plan to do something to warrant such action?

What did your post to me do BUT stir the 'sh@t' a bit.

It is never my intention to stir anything, but I can respond to what is thrown at me.

I, for one, wish we could disccused pool related topics without resorting to slurs, name calling, innuendo, put downs etc. when ever one starts losing or is unable to win the 'dicussion'. All disagreements can not be won & settled. If that were the case then all of AZB would eventually be of one opinion & there would be no need for this discussion forum. Some personalities here seem to be unaware of that & take offense when the other side is not converted by them to their way of seeing things.

Since you do not wish to discuss or debate 'it' please do not feel the need to respond. I certainly do not need any response. However if you wish to express your opinions you are certainly entitled.

 

[row21097]

Well, of course you don't see the irony, I'm not really sure why I thought you would :wink:

But it is folks like yourself why I don't post in these threads anymore to be perfectly honest. It's just not worth the trouble and aggravation to me. Again, you don't seem like a bad guy, but whether or not you want to believe it, you do have a very large chip on your shoulder. I don't mind the back and forth in NPR, but I'm just not going to do it here.

_____________________________________________________________

RJ Wilkinson - "shootpool2004@yahoo.com"
ACS Level 3 Instructor (Advanced)
House Pro - Rack'em Up Chicago
Former Staff Instructor - College of Pool & Billiards - "CUE U"

My sentiments exactly!

b

 

[nobcitypool]

Wow, seems to be a rather popular sentiment towards this member. I must admit, my enjoyment for the site has improved tremendously since putting him on ignore. No motivation to peek, if I want meaningless drivel, I can watch a game on TV where Brent Mussberger is the Commentator.

rick
fwiw
you seem to be an antagonizer
icbw
its ok if you put me on your ignore list.....
but
thats how i see it
for those that read his posts
some are good but some just want to stir the sh@t in my opinion
also this may blow son=me wind out of your sails but i dont want to discuss it
its my opinion
i dont want to debate it
icbw
larry (bbb)

 

[ENGLISH!]

Wow, seems to be a rather popular sentiment towards this member. I must admit, my enjoyment for the site has improved tremendously since putting him on ignore. No motivation to peek, if I want meaningless drivel, I can watch a game on TV where Brent Mussberger is the Commentator.

And so the Scott Lee 'affiliate' bombardment begins.

And just like Mr. Lee, you make exaggerated statements filled with distortion. I doubt that a handful of people that are not particularly pleased with some of my posts constitutes a 'popular' sentiment of all of AZB.

While I did, & may have to again, place you on ignore for the vitriol that you launched my way because I had a difference of opinion with your cohorts, I did not lobby to get you banned, as you seem to be doing with this post.

If I were so inclinded, I could go back & find many posts indicating those authors displeasure with you for derailing threads with your negativity, slurs, & flat out insults.

You for the most part appear to fit the definition of a troll.

I have a few choices. I can respond to you or I can ignore you or I can make a new list. A list of trolls IMHO.

You started this latest confrontation. It's your choice to either cease & desist or you can show your true troll colors & continue with your hostility.

 

[steev]

And so the Scott Lee 'affiliate' bombardment begins...

If you're looking for confirmation from the greater population of AZ, let me be the first. You, sir, are annoying as hell, and I will be adding you to my very short ignore list.

...and I am no one's "affiliate".

-s