How many aiming systems have you gone through?

come down to the DERBY and hang out

Patrick Johnson said:
So you just wanna get together, have a beer or two and shoot some pool for the pure pleasure of my company? Cool. Next time you're in Chicago, OK? I'll be looking for your PM.

Your new hangin' bud,

pj
chgo
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I thought you might come down to the DERBY and hang out with all your friends. :wink: You could probably room with Lou.
 
It would be like shooting "duckies out of barrel."

Patrick Johnson said:
You invited me - aren't we friends now?

pj <- played again?
chgo
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Sure we are, I just thought you and Lou could talk about how much you enjoy using all the new techniques you've learned from me in the last couple of months.

I'm sure you're games have went up 30-40% and you guys would have the edge on some of the "tough games" you could match up there. It would be like shooting "duckies out of barrel."
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JB Cases said:
One thing I am certain of, if students get on these methods early and don't have other habits to break and aren't already indoctrinated on GB as the only "correct" way to aim then I think that they can get way better way faster since they are aiming right from the beginning.
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I don't care about feel vs. no feel. I don't really care if the CTE line moves or not. All I know is that with practice it works great, and I agree 100% with your statement.

I would love to bet on this if I had the extra time and money.
 
In answer to your original question, it's really hard to say. As an instructor I know I have gone through probably at least 20 or 30 different aiming systems. Before but "instructor" status I had gone through countless aiming systems. My quest for knowledge about aiming seemed endless. I think I have tried just about everything out there, and while I'm on the road and cannot say for sure, I have a notebook with close to 100 pages about aiming systems compiled at my office. To be honest, every time someone would say "hey, I have a new system", I would discover that it was something I had already worked with. The same is actually true about ProOne. I met Stan about two years ago and took the pro one one-day lesson from him, when it was over I realized that the basis of it was very similar to what I had learned from Hal Houle a decade ago. I think the one that work best for me, ProOne, was easier for me to grasp because of my countless hours on the phone with Hal talking center to edge systems.

After that nearly 40 years of searching for the perfect system, while I don't believe any system is absolutely perfect, the best one I have come across by far is ProOne. That's what I currently use and have been using for the last couple of years. It works so well that my quest for new aiming systems has now ended.

Bob
 
CJ, I will be at Derby and would consider it an honor and a pleasure to play a friendly game or two with you... As my good friend, Randy Goettlicher once said to David S, "What a great opportunity to play a great player and learn"... Probably not an exact quote, but pretty close.

Bob
 
Stop by and say "hi" when you see me at the DERBY

BobN said:
CJ, I will be at Derby and would consider it an honor and a pleasure to play a friendly game or two with you... As my good friend, Randy Goettlicher once said to David S, "What a great opportunity to play a great player and learn"... Probably not an exact quote, but pretty close.

Bob
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Sure, Randy and I go way back, we were actually partners in my first pool room (before I changed it from Champs to CJ's Billiard Palace in 92).

If I'm not pressed for time I always play "friendly pool" with players that want to improve. My "boss" is the Game, and if I want to keep "my job" I have to play when the "playin's good". ;)

Stop by and say "hi" when you see me at the DERBY. I have no idea what my schedule will be there, I'm just 85% sure I'm going this year. I'll know for sure by the end of the week. Aloha, CJ
 
BobN said:
CJ, I will be at Derby and would consider it an honor and a pleasure to play a friendly game or two with you... As my good friend, Randy Goettlicher once said to David S, "What a great opportunity to play a great player and learn"... Probably not an exact quote, but pretty close.

Bob
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It s very exact :-)
Just talked to David about *this situation* 2 weeks ago ^^

lg from overseas,
Ingo
 
DTL said:
OK. So you're shooting the above illustrated shot to the left and you have to use low right hand english to get position on the next ball.............of course we'd all use a TOI if we could :) but on this shot you have to use low right because the only way to get on the next ball is to change the natural angle coming off the rail. My question is this: you have your shot line by lining up contact points and A appears to equal B, now do you sight down that line during the shot or do you sight down your stick that is over there on the other side of the CB?
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Here's something from Dr. Dave's website that Patrick Johnson wrote. You might find it helpful.

"The things you want to align for aiming (CB/OB contact points, CB/OB fractions, etc.) are rarely on the same line as your stick - they're separate lines. So when you center your vision directly over one line, the other line is necessarily off to the side a little and therefore harder to line up precisely - i.e., if you center your vision over your stick it's more difficult to be sure you're lining the contact points up precisely and if you center your vision over the contact points line it's more difficult to be sure you're lining your stick up precisely. It's a tradeoff.

So I don't think it's a given that one way is always better than the other. I'm not even sure it's necessary for a player to do it the same way every time - maybe some shots lend themselves better to one and some to the other. For instance, thin cuts and shots with lots of sidespin might lend themselves more to sighting along the contact points line, while thicker shots with less spin might be best sighted along the stick.

What's best might also change with the player - some might see the alignment better by favoring the stick while others might favor the contact points line, like how different players have different centers of vision because of eye dominance."​
 
AtLarge said:
Here's something from Dr. Dave's website that Patrick Johnson wrote. You might find it helpful.

"The things you want to align for aiming (CB/OB contact points, CB/OB fractions, etc.) are rarely on the same line as your stick - they're separate lines. So when you center your vision directly over one line, the other line is necessarily off to the side a little and therefore harder to line up precisely - i.e., if you center your vision over your stick it's more difficult to be sure you're lining the contact points up precisely and if you center your vision over the contact points line it's more difficult to be sure you're lining your stick up precisely. It's a tradeoff.

So I don't think it's a given that one way is always better than the other. I'm not even sure it's necessary for a player to do it the same way every time - maybe some shots lend themselves better to one and some to the other. For instance, thin cuts and shots with lots of sidespin might lend themselves more to sighting along the contact points line, while thicker shots with less spin might be best sighted along the stick.

What's best might also change with the player - some might see the alignment better by favoring the stick while others might favor the contact points line, like how different players have different centers of vision because of eye dominance."​
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It is very helpful.
Now if I can only get my CCB aim line parallel to the CP to CP sight line.:smile:
 
wouldn't it be wise to look straight at the center of your tip BEFORE you get down?

DTL said:
OK. So you're shooting the above illustrated shot to the left and you have to use low right hand english to get position on the next ball.............of course we'd all use a TOI if we could :) but on this shot you have to use low right because the only way to get on the next ball is to change the natural angle coming off the rail. My question is this: you have your shot line by lining up contact points and A appears to equal B, now do you sight down that line during the shot or do you sight down your stick that is over there on the other side of the CB?
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This is "out of my{TOI} area of expertise," however, just in the spirit of "food for thought" I offer this to you, to ponder, DLT.

When you are down on the shot you ideally want your eyes positioned so they're "centered" to the tip is this correct? In other words you want to look straight down the center of your tip and look straight at the "contact point" (let's agree we ideally want to be "Centered to the "Shot Line" - I think we will all agree this a perfect scenario, is that correct? (taking for granted it's possible for "all" of us to agree on one thing:wink:)

Wouldn't it be wise to look straight at the center of your tip BEFORE you get down (if you do, indeed, want to end up that way)?

I know this sounds, at first, like common sense and it "should" and "is" done, but is it really, are you really aligning your eyes to the tip BEFORE you get down?

How many of you have the cue to the left of your eyes (for right handed players) when you're preparing to go down{to the cue ball}. From that position you go down on the shot while looking straight from Cue Ball to Object ball WITHOUT looking at the tip. (without beginning with the "end in mind")

Doesn't this encourage your eyes to be out of alignment from the very beginning (you are starting out with your eyes "straight ahead," and your TIP TO THE LEFT. This means you have to align your eyes and tip AFTER you get down, wouldn't it be better to do this BEFORE you go down?


For those of you that have "eyes that see" (your tip) this may be the best "TIP" you will get today, tomorrow, or even the next day. ;) As far as the discussion on "dominant eyes," I'm like the Infamous golfer Bobby Jones "I'm not sure about the Master Eye and if it's more or less important, all I know is I play better with two eyes than I do with one." ;) - "gold nugget" included - Don't miss it.
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DTL said:
OK. So you're shooting the above illustrated shot to the left and you have to use low right hand english to get position on the next ball.............of course we'd all use a TOI if we could :) but on this shot you have to use low right because the only way to get on the next ball is to change the natural angle coming off the rail. My question is this: you have your shot line by lining up contact points and A appears to equal B, now do you sight down that line during the shot or do you sight down your stick that is over there on the other side of the CB?
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DTL,

The key word in your question is 'sight'. I've been shooting with english for many many years & my dominant eye is always over my stick. However I am still 'sighting' the contact line.

It's kind of like throwing a long pass in football or a baseball. Do you look at the person you want to catch the ball or do you look at your initial starting point on a line into the sky. Believe it or not our amazing mind & body actually 'calculate' everything including gravity & the speed of the running receiver & then launch the ball on a vector line into the sky. I'm sure some just look at where they want the ball to end up & then I'm sure there are some like me where the last look is into the sky.

That being said on shorter throws where you can see both the end result and the starting vector line one would probably just look at the end result target. Also when throwing a curve ball does one look at the strainght line starting point or the end result target?

I have found that I look at the starting points.

As Mr. Duckie has pointed out, try leaning over the side of the table where your eye line can not get over where the stick line has to be to shoot a shot & then shoot it with your eyeline well inside of your stick line. How efficient do you think you would be? Yes, you might make a shot here & there, but I doubt your percentage of makes would be very high.

Sorry for the long winded answer to what seems to be a simple question.
What was my answer? Oh yea, I sight down the stick line & the contact points just go along for the ride in the passsenger's seat.

Regards to You &
 
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how do you know your "dominant eye" is "always" over your stick?

ENGLISH! said:
DTL,

The key word in your question is 'sight'. I've been shooting with english for many many years & my dominant eye is always over my stick. However I am still 'sighting' the contact line.

I'm curious, how do you know your "dominant eye" is "always" over your stick? Do you mean in a line with, higher than, or something else?

I presume you have a camera that you use to check this every day. ;)
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CJ Wiley said:
ENGLISH! said:
DTL,

The key word in your question is 'sight'. I've been shooting with english for many many years & my dominant eye is always over my stick. However I am still 'sighting' the contact line.

{QUOTE=CJ} I'm curious, how do you know your "dominant eye" is "always" over your stick? Do you mean in a line with, higher than, or something else?

I presume you have a camera that you use to check this every day.
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CJ,

My bad. Just as we should 'never' say 'never', we should never say 'always' either. I guess I should have said that I 'always' intend to get my right 'dominant' eye over my cue. Or, would it be better to say that I intend to get my cue under my right dominant eye?

I had an eye injury many years ago & I started missing some rather easy shots & discoverd that my cue had drifted to the center under my nose. I did not understand why at the time, but made a conscious effort to make sure that my right, dominant eye was over the cue. Those ocassional easy misses still poped up. So when I covered my left eye the vision in my right 'dominant' eye was blurrry.

So... I am fairly sure that I now keep my right dominant eye over my cue, but to say that I 'always' get it there perfectly would be an assumption on my part as I do not use a camera to check it on every or in fact any shots that I shoot. However I do close my left eye at times for different reasons & it seems that my right dominant eye has 'always' been over my cue & it is aimed as I intend, or at least it appears to be so.

I'm interested to 'hear' your point.

Best Regards to You &
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Look at your tip with your eyes, then back to the shot as usual.

ENGLISH! said:
CJ Wiley said:
CJ,

My bad. Just as we should 'never' say 'never', we should never say 'always' either. I guess I should have said that I 'always' intend to get my right 'dominant' eye over my cue. Or, would it be better to say that I intend to get my cue under my right dominant eye?



I was just curious how you did that, I've never been aware of a "master eye" in pool. I now there's talk of it and many claim it makes a difference, I just know I play better with two eyes that I do with one.

I suggest you look at the part of the tip you want to contact the cue ball BEFORE you get down on the shot. Just a quick glance will do, however, don't move your head to do it. Look at your tip with your eyes, then back to the shot as usual.

This "connects" your eyes to your tip before you get down, instead of trying to do it on the way down, or after you're down. Waiting to align your eyes til after you're down is not prudent, yet many inexperienced players do it every time, advanced players do it too. ;) 'The Game is the Teacher'
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Not sure what system he use but my guess is that your reference line is the same as the contact point line in the sense that if you send the cue ball down this reference line path (regardless of the type system you use)....you cue ball will contact the exact contact point to make the ball.

Duc.



DTL said:
Thx for the comments. See above blue highlights.......how can you sight down 2 lines at the same time? Thx again.

DTL
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