Mr. Phelsson
Registered
Answer to that is simple, just watch them play a few racks. You will be able to determine if they can steer u in the right direction!!!!
Shot / stroke problem
- Thread starter teddosan
- Start date
Answer to that is simple, just watch them play a few racks. You will be able to determine if they can steer u in the right direction!!!!
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My first comment is that the portion of the OP’s post that I’ve bolded should be taken as a very positive aspect of his stroking. His stroking being so precisely repetitive is actually a major element of building a good, consistent game. He’s way ahead of most beginners.
Now he has to address the real cause of his delivery result not agreeing with the CB path he intended: he’s feeding his delivery arm misinformation about what the CB path should be.
Stated simply, he has to just realize that in effect, his eyes are "lying to him" -- almost certainly due to misalignment of his dominant eye. This is very common.
Here below is a fix that definitely works to bring the aiming and delivery stroke into much better agreement with what the player knows for sure is the correct CB path when he’s standing up and ready to step into the shot:
One player I know who’s a deadly accurate shooter makes it a practice (possibly because of a personal, not uncommon, very slight visual sighting error) to periodically zero in on the perfect alignment by occasionally taking a few rehearsal strokes with his closed or open bridge (doesn’t seem to matter) just high enough so that these rehearsal strokes are about a quarter-inch *above* the CB and thereby comparing his aiming line to what he knows to be the desired path that was initially established before getting down on the shot.
It does work very well to feed back to you the usually rather small amount of error (visual misinformation) that a very slight adjustment -- when you lower your bridge hand for the final rehearsal strokes -- can easily correct for.
This rather unique above-the-CB stroking feedback is a very easy way to precisely measure what your eyes are actually doing during practice play (and even during a match). You’ll find yourself gradually, automatically bringing better head alignment and dominant eye adjustment into your game once you’ve demonstrated to yourself that visual misinformation, however minor, is occurring and can be readily corrected.
Arnaldo
I am new and had the same problem.
I am new to the game as well and had the same exact problem. I am not qualified to give any advice or instruction, but in search for my answer I came across several discussions regarding the "dominate eye". Once I understood and applied this concept the problem straightened out and I began pocketing a much higher percentage of balls. If I am not using my (right) dominate eye to aim ( instead of viewing the ball with both eyes) I miss shots to the left every time just like you do.
Not sure if this will help you, but the following link made it clear for me. Again, I am only a beginner and wouldn't think of offering advice normally, but your situation is exactly what I struggled with so I wanted to share this concept with you. I'm sure others can comment on it better than me.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/eyes.html#vision_center
Good luck.
I am new to the game as well and had the same exact problem. I am not qualified to give any advice or instruction, but in search for my answer I came across several discussions regarding the "dominate eye". Once I understood and applied this concept the problem straightened out and I began pocketing a much higher percentage of balls. If I am not using my (right) dominate eye to aim ( instead of viewing the ball with both eyes) I miss shots to the left every time just like you do.
Not sure if this will help you, but the following link made it clear for me. Again, I am only a beginner and wouldn't think of offering advice normally, but your situation is exactly what I struggled with so I wanted to share this concept with you. I'm sure others can comment on it better than me.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/eyes.html#vision_center
Good luck.
There's a pro named Johnny Archer who's won a couple of tournaments...he gives his ideas about OB-CB in this TAR interview at 44:30 (sorry, I don't know how to link with a predefined start time)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUT7-RdKdeA
It sounds to me like he lines up looking at the OB but finishes with his focus on the CB.
(And SVB aims by lining up a segment of his shaft with the edge of the OB...except it's a different segment of the shaft for every angle and spin -- starts at 36:55 in the same video).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUT7-RdKdeA
It sounds to me like he lines up looking at the OB but finishes with his focus on the CB.
(And SVB aims by lining up a segment of his shaft with the edge of the OB...except it's a different segment of the shaft for every angle and spin -- starts at 36:55 in the same video).
ChrisBanks
Banned
I hope you're not implying that Johnny looks at the CB as he shoots. That is one of the biggest lies I see pop up here on AZBilliards from time to time.
bdorman said:
Thanks for the post and link bdorman! It was interesting listening to Johnny's take on amatuers not focusing enough on the cue ball.
How do you know this is a lie?
ChrisBanks
Banned
Because I have researched video of Johnny and other players and have painstakingly waited for evidence of where their eyes are during contact with the cueball, and I have not found one player that looks at the cueball.
For sure the far greater amount is watching at ob at least- but if you (chris) really would have done your research that long, then you would have found someone.
And to see this just from video...this is still more than difficult. To see just a video and then being able to follow a players full eye-pattern....well: hats off! Then you re able to do something, where other very expirienced guys need to be very precise in their observation.
And to see this just from video...this is still more than difficult. To see just a video and then being able to follow a players full eye-pattern....well: hats off! Then you re able to do something, where other very expirienced guys need to be very precise in their observation.
It's hard to find a youtube clip with a player is looking at the cue ball last, but only because the cameraman rarely focuses on the player's face at the moment of impact. They almost have to be screwing up to show the face and not the shot itself.
I read various pros' websites, and so far they all recommend looking at the OB last. A few though say you "can" look at the cue ball last, and on some specific shots (like when treetopped) it's helpful.
Johnny Archer actually had this to say, years ago, on his website (it's still up there on the FAQ page):
"To be honest with you there is no correct way with your eye movement. It is really whatever is comfortable to you. I really don't know what I look at last. I don't think you should be worrying what to look at last while you are down on your shot. It IS JUST ONE MORE DISTRACTION." [emphasis his]
This is what I heard in his TAR interview: Johnny has hit millions of balls, and as a result... once he's down on the ball, he can immediately see if he's lined up to make it or not. Once he's down on the ball and likes his setup, he no longer worries about aiming. So he chooses to pour his focus into where he's hitting the cue ball.
The way I interpret this is: Because johnny has hit millions of balls, AND because he has a world champion's consistent stroke... he doesn't have to worry about being on the correct line to cut it in, sending his cue ball straight down that line. Therefore he can use his mental energy on hitting very precisely on the cue ball for the best possible leave.
This is not quite the same thing as looking at the cue ball last though. He generally feels amateurs don't look carefully enough at where they're hitting the cue ball. But that's not the same thing as saying "you should look at the CB at the moment of impact". I think he means during the whole time you're doing warmup strokes, you should be giving it lots of attention.
I read various pros' websites, and so far they all recommend looking at the OB last. A few though say you "can" look at the cue ball last, and on some specific shots (like when treetopped) it's helpful.
Johnny Archer actually had this to say, years ago, on his website (it's still up there on the FAQ page):
"To be honest with you there is no correct way with your eye movement. It is really whatever is comfortable to you. I really don't know what I look at last. I don't think you should be worrying what to look at last while you are down on your shot. It IS JUST ONE MORE DISTRACTION." [emphasis his]
This is what I heard in his TAR interview: Johnny has hit millions of balls, and as a result... once he's down on the ball, he can immediately see if he's lined up to make it or not. Once he's down on the ball and likes his setup, he no longer worries about aiming. So he chooses to pour his focus into where he's hitting the cue ball.
The way I interpret this is: Because johnny has hit millions of balls, AND because he has a world champion's consistent stroke... he doesn't have to worry about being on the correct line to cut it in, sending his cue ball straight down that line. Therefore he can use his mental energy on hitting very precisely on the cue ball for the best possible leave.
This is not quite the same thing as looking at the cue ball last though. He generally feels amateurs don't look carefully enough at where they're hitting the cue ball. But that's not the same thing as saying "you should look at the CB at the moment of impact". I think he means during the whole time you're doing warmup strokes, you should be giving it lots of attention.
Mr. Phelsson...I disagree with your statement. Just because someone can pocket balls has no bearing on whether they can teach a lick! The first question I want answered, from someone I might be interested in taking lessons from, is..."Do you use video analysis, as part of your teaching?" If not...go elsewhere. Video analysis is used by all the best instructors. You don't know what you don't know! LOL Another good point made by someone was a teacher trying to teach sidespin in the first lesson...ridiculous!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Answer to that is simple, just watch them play a few racks. You will be able to determine if they can steer u in the right direction!!!!
In all the examples where you look at the ball is when the ball is moving. The ones where you look at the target are stationary (before you execute the shot at least). And most don't require close to the accuracy needed to make a ball in pool. In golf you are trying to hit the green which is deveral dozen feet across, even on a tough course.
If you were trying to hit a cueball rolling around the table you'd have to look at it to hit it also.
I have watched many players that people say look at the cue ball last (on MOST shots at last), and they don't, when they shot, they are looking forward. Easy to see as almost anyone you care to name can be seen online.
If you were trying to hit a cueball rolling around the table you'd have to look at it to hit it also.
I have watched many players that people say look at the cue ball last (on MOST shots at last), and they don't, when they shot, they are looking forward. Easy to see as almost anyone you care to name can be seen online.
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No, not all. But your observation is consistent with what I said in the second-to-last paragraph of my post that you quoted.
Yes, but some golf shots require a greater degree of accuracy than some pool shots. A 50-foot-wide target from 250 yards is less than a 4-degree window, or 2 degrees on each side of center. A lot of pool shots require less accuracy than that.
If you're lined up on the shot, and you know your strokes good and repeatable, what does it matter what you're looking at?
In the Color of Money, Vincent lines up on the nine ball and turns his head to look at Fast Eddie, the pockets the ball. We've all done this playing around, but it proves the point that it's how well you line up and how good your stroke is that matters, not what you're looking at.
In the Color of Money, Vincent lines up on the nine ball and turns his head to look at Fast Eddie, the pockets the ball. We've all done this playing around, but it proves the point that it's how well you line up and how good your stroke is that matters, not what you're looking at.
PaulM...It matters because your cue goes where your eyes look. In reality, you're correct to a degree...once you're lined up right, you can close your eyes and pocket the ball. That said, OB last is best for most shots. Just FYI, it took 2 days to film that shot with Cruise (he can't play a lick). Every time he moved his head, he moved the cue, and missed. LOL
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I made a similar argument about stationary vs. moving targets. But as I think about it, I wonder if there's less difference than we think. In a perfect world, everyone moves their arm perfectly straight and there's zero steering of the stroke.
But I wonder if the reality is that ALL shots feature a tiny bit of steering, at least the ones with sidespin. Or the ones where you step into the shot line and you're like a degree off, so you just rotate your body a little rather than standing up and realigning everything.
You need to do mid-motion course corrections to hit moving targets, maybe we do that more than we think in pool as well. You -can- make balls with your eyes closed, but nobody makes them with the same consistency as they would with open eyes. And I think that's because open eyes allow us to do midcourse correction, just like a football or tennis player.
But I wonder if the reality is that ALL shots feature a tiny bit of steering, at least the ones with sidespin. Or the ones where you step into the shot line and you're like a degree off, so you just rotate your body a little rather than standing up and realigning everything.
You need to do mid-motion course corrections to hit moving targets, maybe we do that more than we think in pool as well. You -can- make balls with your eyes closed, but nobody makes them with the same consistency as they would with open eyes. And I think that's because open eyes allow us to do midcourse correction, just like a football or tennis player.
The cue is like a spear..........
If you are throwing a spear you never look at the spear but you look at the target. You don't aim with the spear.
With a pool shot it is exactly the same.
The cue is the spear and we need to think of the cue ball as part of the spear.
That's why it works the best to look at the object ball when we finally shoot. We can actually steer the shot until the cue hits the cue ball.
Just like a spear. Until it leaves your hand you can still change the direction or steer it a little.
This is why we twist or jump on a shot. It didn't quite look right so we twist or jump and try to steer it somehow subconsciously.
And it doesn't take much to throw everything off.
If you are throwing a spear you never look at the spear but you look at the target. You don't aim with the spear.
With a pool shot it is exactly the same.
The cue is the spear and we need to think of the cue ball as part of the spear.
That's why it works the best to look at the object ball when we finally shoot. We can actually steer the shot until the cue hits the cue ball.
Just like a spear. Until it leaves your hand you can still change the direction or steer it a little.
This is why we twist or jump on a shot. It didn't quite look right so we twist or jump and try to steer it somehow subconsciously.
And it doesn't take much to throw everything off.