Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.

[RobertaAgnor]

You are seriously limiting your accuracy.
If you want to learn from the best watch this mans eye pattern CB-OB-Pocket-OB-Pocket-CB-OB

http://youtu.be/73Vd6SnP7A8

It actually helps my accuracy, I look at all that but stop at the last CB. I respect your opinion but since you don't know me or how I shoot you can't really say how it effects me since everyone is different. It's how I've shot my entire life & it's always worked for me & that's what really matters.

 

[Slasher]

It actually helps my accuracy, I look at all that but stop at the last CB. I respect your opinion but since you don't know me or how I shoot you can't really say how it effects me since everyone is different. It's how I've shot my entire life & it's always worked for me & that's what really matters.

So in essence your saying you have reached the pinnacle of pocketing perfection, well done you I say.

 

[RobertaAgnor]

So in essence your saying you have reached the pinnacle of pocketing perfection, well done you I say.

That's not at all what I said but is what you have inferred from it. I have merely found what works for ME not what will work for everyone. I posted my opinion & what works for me so if you're looking to argue then you're talking to the wrong person. However, I'm always open to discussing things & I'm not saying I don't have room for improvement because I could improve a lot & on many things but this discussion was about looking at the cue ball while delivering the stroke so that is what I commented on.

 

[Slasher]

That's not at all what I said but is what you have inferred from it. I have merely found what works for ME not what will work for everyone. I posted my opinion & what works for me so if you're looking to argue then you're talking to the wrong person. However, I'm always open to discussing things & I'm not saying I don't have room for improvement because I could improve a lot & on many things but this discussion was about looking at the cue ball while delivering the stroke so that is what I commented on.

No not looking to argue at all, sorry if the text came across like that.

My point being that as you said no one knows how you play.
A new player comes on here looking to improve their game and they may be taking this option as it appears to be viable one when in fact it will always be a limiting factor in improvement and accuracy.

If one used the method I outlined and supplied the video of coupled with learning the timing of vision from CB to OB they will see a vast improvement in their accuracy, as some of the training video sellers on here say " I guarantee it"

And hey it's free

Enjoy your game.

 

[RobertaAgnor]

No not looking to argue at all, sorry if the text came across like that.

My point being that as you said no one knows how you play.
A new player comes on here looking to improve their game and they may be taking this option as it appears to be viable one when in fact it will always be a limiting factor in improvement and accuracy.

If one used the method I outlined and supplied the video of coupled with learning the timing of vision from CB to OB they will see a vast improvement in their accuracy, as some of the training video sellers on here say " I guarantee it"

And hey it's free

Enjoy your game.

Sorry I jumped the gun, I must have gotten more used to dealing with Chris Banks than I realized lol. People just have to find what works for them & go with it, they're only going to learn by trying different things. That video was very good by the way, thanks for sharing it.

 

[Slasher]

Sorry I jumped the gun, I must have gotten more used to dealing with Chris Banks than I realized lol. People just have to find what works for them & go with it, they're only going to learn by trying different things. That video was very good by the way, thanks for sharing it.

I like this video because the camera shots really show all the eye movements, tip, pause, stroke etc really well and it's in HD.

 

[o.g. (old guy)]

Just thought I'd throw this in as food for thought; I've always likened eye focus in pool as eye focus in shooting a gun. If any one has had any firearms training you are taught to focus on the front sight, to me this is the same as the object ball, (the second of three options). However one might argue that pool has a forth option and that's the cue tip! Which could be a factor in why your eyes bounce back and forth from cb to ob. I've always looked at the object ball last...usually...I think...

 

[Okie]

You are seriously limiting your accuracy.
If you want to learn from the best watch this mans eye pattern CB-OB-Pocket-OB-Pocket-CB-OB.
This is what timing is all about

http://youtu.be/73Vd6SnP7A8

Love watching these! Thanks!

Hard for me to tell that he is doing what you say but I will take your word for it!

So to be clear...

As he drops in he is looking at the CB?

Ken

 

[Slasher]

Love watching these! Thanks!

Hard for me to tell that he is doing what you say but I will take your word for it!

So to be clear...

As he drops in he is looking at the CB?

Ken

The sequence for most snooker players is that they "walk into the shot", they will align the body in the upright position looking at the potting angle then down on the shot and most often address the CB first then begin the back and forth sequence of OB-CB, Hendry is slightly unique with the added glance to the pocket in this sequence.

 

[Okie]

The sequence for most snooker players is that they "walk into the shot", they will align the body in the upright position looking at the potting angle then down on the shot and most often address the CB first then begin the back and forth sequence of OB-CB, Hendry is slightly unique with the added glance to the pocket in this sequence.

Thank you for the response!

I am a guy who played by the seat of his pants for years. I am trying to clean up my fundamentals a bit.

Ken

 

[Slasher]

I might add that Hendrys little glance at the pocket is probably what made him so deadly into the center pockets, it's easy to get down on these with most of the pocket out of sight and a little off line, that little glance can help you make the minute adjustments.

 

[3andstop]

Looking at the CB last is such a bad habit to get into that I just had to post one more time, emphasizing that it will be nearly impossible to control position and make shots with any degree of difficulty beyond basic.

Of course there are exceptions to all rules. Jump shots may be one, jacked up off the rail may be another, but I'm not talking about the exceptions, I'm talking about the correct way to address a shot.

Now there are lots of things in life people do differently than others. I think any pro who says he looks at the CB last, simply doesn't realize he or she isn't doing that because their action is so automatic.

When I owned a poolroom one of the most common things I saw were people who couldn't even make contact with the CB. The stick would slide off the side, miscueing, and never even get the CB rolling.

Rather than work on alignment they started focusing on the CB only. Realizing success with now being able to strike the CB, this was seen to them as a step in the right direction.

No student of the game who can run racks of 14.1 (the game I equate pool to) would ever be able to do this by looking at the CB last.

Here .... don't take my word for it. LOOK HERE.

Here is a man we can all agree on that is not only a great ambassador to the game, but a great player and 100 ball plus runner. Articulate and worthy of heeding if you indeed want to improve your game.

 

[RobertaAgnor]

Looking at the CB last is such a bad habit to get into that I just had to post one more time, emphasizing that it will be nearly impossible to control position and make shots with any degree of difficulty beyond basic.

Of course there are exceptions to all rules. Jump shots may be one, jacked up off the rail may be another, but I'm not talking about the exceptions, I'm talking about the correct way to address a shot.

Now there are lots of things in life people do differently than others. I think any pro who says he looks at the CB last, simply doesn't realize he or she isn't doing that because their action is so automatic.

When I owned a poolroom one of the most common things I saw were people who couldn't even make contact with the CB. The stick would slide off the side, miscueing, and never even get the CB rolling.

Rather than work on alignment they started focusing on the CB only. Realizing success with now being able to strike the CB, this was seen to them as a step in the right direction.

No student of the game who can run racks of 14.1 (the game I equate pool to) would ever be able to do this by looking at the CB last.

Here .... don't take my word for it. LOOK HERE.

Here is a man we can all agree on that is not only a great ambassador to the game, but a great player and 100 ball plus runner. Articulate and worthy of heeding if you indeed want to improve your game.

So after reading all of these comments, when I practiced last night I made a conscious effort of knowing where I was looking when getting ready to shoot. I now realize I do pretty much what Tony's talking about in that video & I really didn't realize it because it's just so automatic.

 

[gregcantrall]

Have I struck a nerve?

First I thank all for their thoughtful input and congratulate you for being able to post measured and reasonable responses in a topic that you obviously feel strongly about. I am thinking religiously. I never discuss religion or politics.:sorry:

I have related the results of what was an experiment for me. I gave a little ground work and explained that it was the words of Willie Hoppe(Billiards Digest named him the greatest billiards player of the century.), that prompted me to conduct this experiment. I first read his book Billiards as it should be played 28 years ago, with the goal of improving my billiard or carom shots in 9 ball ring games. It did just that for me. It also taught me some diamond systems that are very valuable. It does give one of the most extensive and complete analysis of the basics or fundamentals of the game I have come across. A full 32 pages before he gets to addressing carom shots. I would highly recomend this book for any student of the game. Anyone familiar with Efren Reyes will know what his 3 cushion knowledge and skills have brought to his game on the pool table.

Ok I dug out the book. From page 25 of Billiards as it should be played by Willie Hoppe:

AIMING​

Select the spots on the object and cue balls you wish to hit. Then concentrate on this line of aim---watch tip of cue in preliminary strokes to see that your tip is going to the same spot. Your eye and hand should act in strict unison.

A glance should go from the cue ball to the object ball, back to the cue ball, and rest there---so you must be looking at the cue ball rather than the object ball before delivering your stroke.

The argument has often arisen whether or not a player's last glance before striking the cue ball is on the cue or object ball. My eyes are last on the cue ball.

However, several of my fellow pros often have wanted to bet me that I was wrong. Be that as it may, it doesn't mean a thing to better play. Both methods are satisfactory. Anyway you will do this automatically and unconsciously.

Please do not worry about my mind being permanently bent by looking at the cue ball last. It is not adictive and I can quite at any time.

 

[Okie]

AIMING
Select the spots on the object and cue balls you wish to hit. Then concentrate on this line of aim---watch tip of cue in preliminary strokes to see that your tip is going to the same spot. Your eye and hand should act in strict unison.

A glance should go from the cue ball to the object ball, back to the cue ball, and rest there---so you must be looking at the cue ball rather than the object ball before delivering your stroke.

The argument has often arisen whether or not a player's last glance before striking the cue ball is on the cue or object ball. My eyes are last on the cue ball.

However, several of my fellow pros often have wanted to bet me that I was wrong. Be that as it may, it doesn't mean a thing to better play. Both methods are satisfactory. Anyway you will do this automatically and unconsciously.

That seems like the best answer to all our questions. What else can we hack up now?

This book is available on Kindle as well - http://www.amazon.com/Billiards-As-Should-Played-ebook/dp/B006W9VZYI/ref=tmm_kin_title_0

Thanks Greg!

Ken

 

[ENGLISH!]

So after reading all of these comments, when I practiced last night I made a conscious effort of knowing where I was looking when getting ready to shoot. I now realize I do pretty much what Tony's talking about in that video & I really didn't realize it because it's just so automatic.

Roberta,

That was some really good 'stuff' form Tony. Fran Crimi recently said that the Miz did that back & forth on every practice stroke as well.

But now, here's the down side to doing that. You may have to go back & watch the video again to notice it, but when Tony is demonstrating the back & forth eye movement & the camera zooms in close, take notice of all of those deep furrowed wrinkles on his forhead.:wink:

I don't know about you but I ceratinly don't want to get those. Actually I already have them, but I'm 59.

I'm just saying, that is certainly something to consider.:wink:

Best Wishes to You &

 

[3andstop]

So after reading all of these comments, when I practiced last night I made a conscious effort of knowing where I was looking when getting ready to shoot. I now realize I do pretty much what Tony's talking about in that video & I really didn't realize it because it's just so automatic.

Roberta, I think most people who think they are looking at the CB last are actually looking at the OB. If you look back at my first post, I say the last thing you do before stroking is "pause at the CB" looking at it to confirm you are on line. Only then shift to the OB and stay fixated intently on the contact point.

This holds true in most other sports also. You don't look at the dart last, rather the target. A pitcher doesn't look at the baseball last, rather the catchers glove. A basketball player looks at the hoop last not the basketball.

The only time it is advantageous to do otherwise is when the projectile is being hit to an "area" rather than a specific small target. For example a golf ball down a fairway, or a football to the opponents half of the football field.

Consider the sizes of the targets in question here and it becomes easy to see where we are best able to devote our focus.

Better players more often than not play to even smaller spots than the pocket. They play to specific portions of the pocket. There is no way to do that looking at the CB.

Now, I play some 1 pocket, and there are plenty of times I look at the CB last in that game, since I'm driving the ball to an area and the focus is on a very specific hit on the CB.

I am passionate about these kinds of things because many readers really want to improve and it is more important than they can currently realize. Playing pool is the ultimate attempt to rub your tummy and pat your head at the same time. There's no need to throw a wrench in the works with ideas like CB last IMO. :smile:

 

[robsnotes4u]

Roberta, I think most people who think they are looking at the CB last are actually looking at the OB. If you look back at my first post, I say the last thing you do before stroking is "pause at the CB" looking at it to confirm you are on line. Only then shift to the OB and stay fixated intently on the contact point.

This holds true in most other sports also. You don't look at the dart last, rather the target. A pitcher doesn't look at the baseball last, rather the catchers glove. A basketball player looks at the hoop last not the basketball.

The only time it is advantageous to do otherwise is when the projectile is being hit to an "area" rather than a specific small target. For example a golf ball down a fairway, or a football to the opponents half of the football field.

Consider the sizes of the targets in question here and it becomes easy to see where we are best able to devote our focus.

Better players more often than not play to even smaller spots than the pocket. They play to specific portions of the pocket. There is no way to do that looking at the CB.

Now, I play some 1 pocket, and there are plenty of times I look at the CB last in that game, since I'm driving the ball to an area and the focus is on a very specific hit on the CB.

I am passionate about these kinds of things because many readers really want to improve and it is more important than they can currently realize. Playing pool is the ultimate attempt to rub your tummy and pat your head at the same time. There's no need to throw a wrench in the works with ideas like CB last IMO. :smile:

The analogy falls short. When a baseball is thrown by a pitcher it is attached to the hand like a cue it is thrust forward at the target. The baseball hits the mitt, and the cue hits the cueball. Those are the targets. Same as the dart thrower

Baseball and darts are only working with two objects, ball or dart, and mitt or dartboard. Pool has three cue, cueball, and point of contact to make the object ball.

Here is a big question. Lets say you have a 4 ball combo, which is the object ball? Do you focus in the last ball and forget the rest?


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[3andstop]

The analogy falls short. When a baseball is thrown by a pitcher it is attached to the hand like a cue it is thrust forward at the target. The baseball hits the mitt, and the cue hits the cueball. Those are the targets. Same as the dart thrower

Baseball and darts are only working with two objects, ball or dart, and mitt or dartboard. Pool has three cue, cueball, and point of contact to make the object ball.

Here is a big question. Lets say you have a 4 ball combo, which is the object ball? Do you focus in the last ball and forget the rest?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

When the cue ball is thrown it's attached to the cue. Symantecs don't change the FACT that you can't be looking at the CB last. And you look at the first ball in the combination since that is your target.

I hope you don't look at your feet when your running down the sidewalk, you may run into a tree that way.

 

[robsnotes4u]

When the cue ball is thrown it's attached to the cue. Symantecs don't change the FACT that you can't be looking at the CB last. And you look at the first ball in the combination since that is your target.

I hope you don't look at your feet when your running down the sidewalk, you may run into a tree that way.

Unfortunately the cue isn't attached until the cue is thrown at it. like i said before do you look at the golf ball when you hit it off the tee? Golf club=cue, golf ball=cue ball, hole=object ball contact area.

Fact is many people look at the cue ball last, that has already proven.

Awesome. The first ball in a combination is always the cue ball. At least we got that straight.

Walking, much like a beating heart is a subconscious activity, and when you are in the zone that is how you shoot, subconsciously.

Is there a shot you have problems with? Try cue ball first on that one, it can't hurt


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