Should pros be allowed to sell products on the main forum?

Its a grey area and one that makes me say, who cares.

Yeah, as far as principle and forum rules go, maybe not cool but at least CJ and some of the others do actively participate in the Main Forum.

Everyone wishes that the Pros would come back and join in. So maybe this is one of the consolations that has to be made so they will.

We do or at least have one past pro that comes back on occasion. The only time he does is when he has a sale on his book or his DVD's. That and when a tourney comes up that requires travel expenses and he openly solicits donations from the members.

Another Mosconi Cup Player that has graced our presence twice. When he wanted us to go to Matchroom or where ever and vote for him being the wild card at the Cup.

Then they disappear never to be heard from again until they need something.

I'd rather have it this way. At least they are here participating. And CJ and others at least give back a little when it comes to learning the game. So its a bit of give and take. And really, they aren't making millions selling us a few DVDs either.
They are just making back a little for sharing their knowledge that they learned the hard way and allowing us to learn what they did for a few bucks.

On the list of the Grand Scheme of things in our lives, it gets put down as No Big Deal.
 
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How is a pro coming on here selling a dvd any different than an instructor coming on here saying they give lessons ?

this is a billiards forum. As long as the product is billiard related who cares. if you don't want to buy, then don't read the thread.
 
lots of stuff for sale

Lots of folks hawk their goods on here. Some openly, some not so openly. If you have your website link or pictures of your stuff you sell included in your sig line you are selling all the time everywhere you post. If you are asking opinions on a new product you are selling. If you are giving away free copies of a new book or DVD that you intend to sell... you are selling... Most everybody has sold something on here. So where do you draw the line? Add positive content and i'm cool with it. Mike or Jerry will let us know if they aren't.
 
For me any open sales efforts should be in the for sale section. Soft selling via signature is ok. Perfect example of staying inside the lines is FastLenny. Curious about what he's got going on.....click his sig links. If he's selling something or special offer in the for sale section it goes. Others don't seem to follow this kind of common sense.

Inside the lines:
1. One time announcements (wrote a book, event, TAR match)
2. Unpaid spontaneous testimonials OK
3. Bad Transactions and other stiffs (good of the community type stuff)

Outside the lines:
1. Huge Banner style adds in your sig (I see less of this lately)
2. Sale announcement (put this in the For Sale Category)
3. Pimping someone else's product as your own sig line (Yes CoCo this is for you)
4. Double standard. Pros and other industry types don't get a pass. One standard for all.
5. OHHHHH I almost missed the worst offender. Charlie W/Dragon. The Pump and Dump. You don't contribute you don't get to billboard here.

At one time I was a paid member but over time I have disagreed with what is allowed and double standards and I voted with my feet. That's OK AZB owners are big boys and can do what they want. As can we all.

Nick
 
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DogsPlayingPool said:
In a word, yes. And the reason is that it is unfair to their competitors who don't skirt the rules.
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As we all know the rules here are super flexible. As I said if they have something to sell and they are willing to take questions and make conversation then it's fine with me. If it's just a straight up infomercial-type ad then no.

Take you for example, John. You contribute here quite actively. But when you happen to have the occasional case left over from a batch or something that you want to sell, you post it in the for sale area. Why do you do that? Why don't you pitch them in the main forum? And would you think it was fair if your major competitors started posting cases for sale in the main forum?
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A case doesn't help anyone play better. Nor can the presentation of it increase anyone's knowledge of the history of the game or how the game looks from the professional perspective. I don't pitch cases for sale in the main forum because there is a marketplace for products. But I do discuss cases in the main forum when it's appropriate to do so.

Yes it would be unfair if my competitors were able to pitch their products in the main forum and I weren't. If that were to happen then I might say something.

Again though I make an exception for professional pool players who are selling their knowledge. I firmly believe that a billiard forum has two main functions, to keep abreast of the news in pool and to share knowledge of how to play better. To the latter having pros to talk to is the best way to get insight into the game from the highest level.

So to be fair then it has to be OK for everyone, not just certain members offering instruction. All case and cue makers, cue dealers, table mechanics, traveling instructors, vendors of ball sets / cloth / tables / tips / chalk / racks...yada yada should all be allowed to do it. Why should only certain members have this privilege? And if everyone did it would you still argue it would not be a problem?
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If the main forum were turned into a long series of infomercials then it wouldn't be good. But that's not the case here.

All members of the forum are not equal in what they can contribute. Sorry but that's just the way it is. Some of us just know more about the billiards industry, the products and in the case of the pros, how to play the game. When we are here we can answer people's questions accurately based on actual experience. Of course that doesn't mean our answers are always the best ones or the right ones but it does mean that at least you have the benefit of getting the professional perspective.

Should that mean that the "professional" members, both industry and player should get special privileges? I think so, within reason. I don't think that they should have the freedom to be jerks. But they should have some protection against the jerks. I know a forum should be a place where all are equal but in fact when you have a bonafide champion he or she has experiences that 99% of the forum members will never have. So to me it's important to make sure that those players feel welcomed and comfortable enough to share their experiences.

Also, I don't think as many people are glued to the main forum as you think. I can't remember the last time I clicked on the main forum if I wasn't starting a thread that belonged there. Personally, I go to my subscribed threads first and then I hit the new button. Once I've gone through those I'm usually done unless I want to check something specific, like what's for sale or more usually to bring myself up to speed in the straight pool forum.
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Perhaps not but in a given day the main forum has the most new posts, the most views, and surely is the first point that most new visitors come to.

As I typed this I just checked and there are about 200 people in the main forum while there are 150 in the for sale forum. So it is not exactly a wasteland for someone selling something. And the audience there are people that are actually looking to buy something.
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This brings up another point. The rules state that there shall be no active bumping in the WFS section. So where should a discussion ensue about a method happen? When CJ for example says he uses a method he calls TOI is that any different than Joe PoolPlayer saying he uses a method called TOI? Obviously the pro can't put up an ad in the WFS section and then have a long and active discussion about it there.

So where should it go? Ask the Instructor? That's a Q&A board not a presentation area.

I submit that the main forum is the place where it goes along with every other thing that people want to present. IF something ends up in the main forum that should be there then it's a 5 second process for a mod to move it wherever they think it should go.
 
JB Cases said:
...IF something ends up in the main forum that should be there then it's a 5 second process for a mod to move it wherever they think it should go.
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Well John, I appreciate your acknowledging my views and you make some valid points as well, particularly the last one. It is up to the administrators to set policy and the mods to enforce them. Ultimately whatever they decide we all abide by. Frankly, that's fine with me. For whatever little flaws may exist this is still by far the best pool forum on the internet. :thumbup:
 
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there is a reason the top players arent here often. as that is they dont want to hang out with lesser players they dont know. you wouldnt either.

most come when they want something for free and then leave.

so let them sell their products in the for sale section like everyone should. then they can come in and give tips or whatever they want to talk about pool. and also say they have something in the for sale section and say go look.

in all things once you start giving special treatment to certain people they become spoiled and demand it. while others become mad over not getting the same treatment. not good for all involved.
 
maha said:
there is a reason the top players arent here often. as that is they dont want to hang out with lesser players they dont know. you wouldnt either.

most come when they want something for free and then leave.

so let them sell their products in the for sale section like everyone should. then they can come in and give tips or whatever they want to talk about pool. and also say they have something in the for sale section and say go look.

in all things once you start giving special treatment to certain people they become spoiled and demand it. while others become mad over not getting the same treatment. not good for all involved.
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Pros think "why should i give my hard earned expertise" to my competition, they really believe they got the magic that makes them pros and do not want to pass it to others; they want to be the ones hitting top prizes not AZB'ers, but got news for them; everyone on this forum knows everything, some got the time to miss with it, some do not, but when time is right and some AZB'ers get their own table at home, watch out pros..
 
I have noticed recently that the moderators have slacked a whole lot by letting aiming threads continue to flourish on the main forum. So, for all of you guys who wanted the aiming section, I don't see you throwing hissy fits over aiming threads not being isolated. I can can further say that I am the only one who has *****ed publicly and privately to the moderators, if nothing else just to prove that their creating an aiming subsection was ridiculous.

Now, for CJ's CDs, I would only suggest that for him to follow the rules here that he should have mentioned in the main forum that 'you can read more about my TOI CDs' on the for sale forum.

And, btw, the worst offender is JB Cases who posts pictures of his cases on every post and links to his websites. Every time I have to move by his posts with those stupid pics I get pissed off at what a real-estate hog he is.
 
surely you "real eyes" the TOI Technique is not an "aiming system"

whitewolf said:
I have noticed recently that the moderators have slacked a whole lot by letting aiming threads continue to flourish on the main forum. So, for all of you guys who wanted the aiming section, I don't see you throwing hissy fits over aiming threads not being isolated. I can can further say that I am the only one who has *****ed publicly and privately to the moderators, if nothing else just to prove that their creating an aiming subsection was ridiculous.

Now, for CJ's CDs, I would only suggest that for him to follow the rules here that he should have mentioned in the main forum that 'you can read more about my TOI CDs' on the for sale forum.

And, btw, the worst offender is JB Cases who posts pictures of his cases on every post and links to his websites. Every time I have to move by his posts with those stupid pics I get pissed off at what a real-estate hog he is.
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What is a TOI CD? I think you're a bit behind times. ;) surely you "real eyes" the TOI Technique is not an "aiming system"...do I have to explain it in detail again? :smile:

images
 
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Seems like it's always the same people who have an issue and the same that don't. I still don't see a purpose to threads like this except for trying to prove how smart we all are, over and over, ad nauseum.
I just have to see a name and I already know the direction of the post.
I guess the good thing is, makes it easy to skim.
 
whitewolf said:
I have noticed recently that the moderators have slacked a whole lot by letting aiming threads continue to flourish on the main forum. So, for all of you guys who wanted the aiming section, I don't see you throwing hissy fits over aiming threads not being isolated. I can can further say that I am the only one who has *****ed publicly and privately to the moderators, if nothing else just to prove that their creating an aiming subsection was ridiculous.

Now, for CJ's CDs, I would only suggest that for him to follow the rules here that he should have mentioned in the main forum that 'you can read more about my TOI CDs' on the for sale forum.

And, btw, the worst offender is JB Cases who posts pictures of his cases on every post and links to his websites. Every time I have to move by his posts with those stupid pics I get pissed off at what a real-estate hog he is.
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You can turn signatures off. Or better just put me on ignore and skip my posts altogether.



www.jbcases.com
 
2andOUT said:
How is a pro coming on here selling a dvd any different than an instructor coming on here saying they give lessons ?
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... this happens often

I'll be in Miami this week and Atlanta this particular time or wherever and whenever. PM me if interested. They're using the main forum for personal financial gain, imo

there's a fine line where the mod should step in or not

personally I don't have a problem with anyone ... who may be willing to share useful, helpful info to the general AZ population. could be a big reason for so many visiting this great site
 
billy said:
... this happens often

I'll be in Miami this week and Atlanta this particular time or wherever and whenever. PM me if interested. They're using the main forum for personal financial gain, imo

there's a fine line where the mod should step in or not

personally I don't have a problem with anyone ... who may be willing to share useful, helpful info to the general AZ population. could be a big reason for so many visiting this great site
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that could be a big reason.
 
billy said:
... this happens often

I'll be in Miami this week and Atlanta this particular time or wherever and whenever. PM me if interested. They're using the main forum for personal financial gain, imo

there's a fine line where the mod should step in or not

personally I don't have a problem with anyone ... who may be willing to share useful, helpful info to the general AZ population. could be a big reason for so many visiting this great site
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FWIW I consider these types of announcements to be one of the purposes of a message board/forum. Frankly I have found out where people will be through this forum a lot and been able to catch up with them because of it. I have been able to go to events that I otherwise wouldn't have known about, been able to buy things I would not have otherwise known about.
 
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