Taper question

twal

"W"
Silver Member
Is there an agreement between the cue makers on tapers?
I know you all have your favorites for a reason if you want to just say which one and why I would like to know.

I searched and searched and unfortunately I could only find limited information on the different type of tapers.

I am just not happy with what I have found thus far.
Is there a listing of all the different tapers compared to one another somewhere? Anyone provide a link?

As I understand it, the taper of shaft is the one of the major factor in determining how stiff or whippy a shaft feels. The other being size of the shaft. If all things are equal with a 13MM diameter at the tip then is there a list of tapers from the stiffest to the least - stiff?

Maybe there is another way to categorize them? If so please enlighten me.
 
I have never seen a list the way you are talking about it. The closest I have seen is this: http://www.schulercue.com/schulershafts.html But they don't really say much about each taper.

I'm sure one of the cue makers will break it down for you, but I don't know of one cental list or set of comparisons the way you are saying.





.
 
Here is a little blog I wrote a few years ago. I hope it helps...


There has been much discussion about shaft tapers. We thought that we would give you and idea of our thinking on the subject and why you should consider having the shaft of the cue that you purchase from Mueller’s tapered to more suit the particulars of your game.

There are three different taper styles. The first is the conical taper. The second is the parabolic taper, and the last is a compound taper. Each has their specific playing characteristic which allows the customizing of your cue to best fit your game.

There are differing views of conical, compound, and parabolic tapers.
That being the case we need to take some time and give our view of these
and define what we mean by them.

The conical taper, also called the “euro taper” or “straight taper,” is continuous. There is an equal increase in diameter starting from the ferrule to the joint of the cue. It is very stiff and has little to no flex which transfers maximum power. Its main use is for games played on larger tables or games of banking, such as snooker, carom, etc…

The parabolic taper has a sweeping concave radius from the joint to the ferrule. This taper is not as stiff as the conical taper and is seen mostly on
after market shafts.

The compound taper as the name suggests is a shaft with two different tapers, one that is smaller and one that is larger. The small or minor taper begins at the tip and moves toward the center of the shaft and the large or major taper starts at the joint and also moves toward the center of the shaft. Where the two tapers meet is called the flex point. This taper is commonly called the “pro taper” which can be a confusing and often misused term. The reason being is that there is no standard for the “pro taper”. One cue maker can incorporate a taper that is 12” long into a shaft and another that is 14” and both could legitimately call them pro tapers. Our purpose here is to give you an idea of how the compound taper is made and to show why it is the best option for the player to best control the way his or her cue plays.

-Let’s assume we have two shafts identical in every way except the flex point. One shaft has a flex point at 8” inches from the tip and the other has a flex point at 14” from the tip. The first shaft is defined as an “8 inch taper,” the other as a “14 inch taper.” The 14” taper will have more flex, giving it more action, feel and finesse, than the 8” taper. It will be easier to execute topspin (follow), backspin (draw) and sidespin (english) with the 14” taper than the 8” taper, given the same shot. There is a trade off. The 8” taper will have more power, speed, and accuracy. These characteristics are increased or decreased depending on where the flex point is on the shaft.

The compound taper, also called “pro taper,” is one of the most misused and misunderstood terms that we come across. The compound taper has two distinct and different tapers.

The first is the minor taper that starts at the tip of the shaft and ends at the beginning of the major taper. (Defined below) The minor taper may or may not increase slightly over the designated length on the shaft which gives the shaft taper its definition.

The major taper starts where the minor ends and goes to the shaft joint. The major taper increases more aggressively, called pitch, than the minor taper. The spot where the two tapers meet is called the “flex point.” The flex point determines how much action the shaft has when executing any given shot.

-Let’s assume we have two shafts identical in every way except the flex point. One shaft has a flex point at 8” inches from the tip and the other has a flex point at 14” from the tip. The first shaft is defined as an “8 inch taper,” the other as a “14 inch taper.” The 14” taper will have more flex, giving it more action, feel and finesse, than the 8” taper. It will be easier to execute topspin (follow), backspin (draw) and sidespin (english) with the 14” taper than the 8” taper, given the same shot. There is a trade off. The 8” taper will have more power, speed, and accuracy. These characteristics are increased or decreased depending on where the flex point is on the shaft.
 
The wood is also a major determining factor.

Think of it this way...provide your favorite cuemaker with ten squares of shaft-grade maple and ask them to make ten identically tapered shafts. Move ahead x number of months/years into the future, and you'll have ten shaft of varying weight and rigidity. A few of them may be excessively stiff or whippy even though they all have the same physical dimensions, that's just the nature of it.

I agree.
I've come across shaft woods that are just too soft for my liking.
I just get rid of them.

My definition of tapers in terms of stiffness.

Straight taper to the middle of the shaft= TODAY's "Pro-taper" definition.
1 to 1.25 MM taper to the middle=Old school pro taper ( I call them medium ).
1.5 to 2.0MM taper to the middle=Medium stiff taper
More than 2MM taper to the middle=Stiff Taper
More than 3MM taper to the middle=Really stiff taper and nobody likes them nowadays.
 
Ryan and everyone else:
Thanks for the awesome information. I really appreciate it.

To summarize for my own understanding.
There are three different tapers: Conical (euro/straight), Compound (pro), and Parabolic.

I get the conical/euro/straight taper. Start at the joint and it is constant taper from the joint to the tip. At no point is shaft ever the same diameter. This is a very stiff playing taper as you have noted.

The compound/pro/double taper. With thins one I get it. There are many different options from an 8” to a 14” taper and I have even seen 19” ones. You have went into great detail on that one so I will not repeat that. I think I get it.

The last one, the parabolic taper. I guess I don’t get it.
Can someone elaborate on this?
I don’t understand “sweeping concave radius from the joint to the ferrule”.
I think it would be right to say (all things being equal) this belongs in between the conical (euro/straight) taper and the compound (pro) taper.
Does this taper actually get smaller in the middle of the shaft than it is at the tip?

Like I said I am confused and don’t understand it.

Thanks for all of the help.
 
Ryan and everyone else:
Thanks for the awesome information. I really appreciate it.

To summarize for my own understanding.
There are three different tapers: Conical (euro/straight), Compound (pro), and Parabolic.

I get the conical/euro/straight taper. Start at the joint and it is constant taper from the joint to the tip. At no point is shaft ever the same diameter. This is a very stiff playing taper as you have noted.

The compound/pro/double taper. With thins one I get it. There are many different options from an 8” to a 14” taper and I have even seen 19” ones. You have went into great detail on that one so I will not repeat that. I think I get it.

The last one, the parabolic taper. I guess I don’t get it.
Can someone elaborate on this?
I don’t understand “sweeping concave radius from the joint to the ferrule”.
I think it would be right to say (all things being equal) this belongs in between the conical (euro/straight) taper and the compound (pro) taper.
Does this taper actually get smaller in the middle of the shaft than it is at the tip?

Like I said I am confused and don’t understand it.

Thanks for all of the help.

A parabolic taper has no straight line or angle. Imagine bending a 29" long toothpick.
 
I think the best way to imagine it is this:
Think of the euro taper which is basically a elongated cone.
Now imagine squeezing a portion of that cone to make it curve inward toward the center of the cone - but not far enough to make any portion of the cone parallel to another (that would be approaching a 'pro' taper.
That should be an accurate representation of a parabolic taper.
 
A parabolic taper has no straight line or angle. Imagine bending a 29" long toothpick.

I am not worried about bending a 29" toothpick. I am however scared of getting the guy who needs a 29" toothpick upset. :grin-square:
 
The last one, the parabolic taper. I guess I don’t get it.

Its pretty tough to explain but imagine a very large circle. Let's say a 20ft diameter. Take a 29 inch piece of the circumference and that would be the shaft taper.

Technically, that is spherical not parabolic but it at least gives you a visual without getting into graph plotting...
 
H,

A parabolic taper can be used in just a section of a 29" contour of a shatt or butt.

My shaft taper for example is parabolic for 14" transitioning into a modern pro climb. My butt taper is a parabolic taper from the butt to the A Joint, then straight conical to the joint.

Rick
 
Ray's stiffest shafts were insanely stiff. His second stiffest shaft-the constant, wasn't actually a constant taper. It was a compound taper, but the tip end was actually a steeper taper than the shaft end. His 'masterpiece' had an 'elliptical' taper, which would be the opposite of a parabolic shape.
 
I have seen it reported that Ray had the most complete collection of shaft tapers. He was supposed to be able to match anything.

He certainly seemed to have developed the most complete range of available "off the shelf" tapers that I have seen.

It seems that most makers settle on their favorite and tend to stick to that. It might evolve over time. I have never seen a maker advertise a range of tapers like Schuler. It always made sense to me really.




.
 
Ray's stiffest shafts were insanely stiff. His second stiffest shaft-the constant, wasn't actually a constant taper. It was a compound taper, but the tip end was actually a steeper taper than the shaft end. His 'masterpiece' had an 'elliptical' taper, which would be the opposite of a parabolic shape.
It got fatter towards the tip ?:eek:

Parabolic taper must be the most abused term outside of "pro-taper".
 
Okay, after all of this I still don't understand what a parabolic taper actually is.
I feel even more confused now.

Is the term Parabolic taper just overused or just used incorrectly?
It would seem that everyone has their idea of what it supposed.

I was hoping it would be more of an absolute rule.

I don't know, maybe I am the only one who does not get it.
 
Okay, after all of this I still don't understand what a parabolic taper actually is.
I feel even more confused now.

Is the term Parabolic taper just overused or just used incorrectly?
It would seem that everyone has their idea of what it supposed.

I was hoping it would be more of an absolute rule.

I don't know, maybe I am the only one who does not get it.

Well, do you know the basic differences in shape between a circle, a hyperbola, and a parabola?
If not, Google or Wikipedia can be your friend.

After you understand the differences in curvatures, think about how they might be applied to the curvature of a shaft.

And no, there are no standards, otherwise there would be no need for different cues - they would all be the same - which they are not.

HTH

Gary

P.S. There is no function in CNC for a a parabola, so we have to adapt.
 
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