John Burton Sour Grapes...Really!!!

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Wedge

WO Wedge Lock
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John Barton Sour Grapes...Really!!!

I recently put the Jack Justis AZ 2012 case of the year I own up for sale. John Barton gave me a nice green rep for it today...go figure!!! Below is his comment: :deadhorse:



F/S AZ 2012 Jack Justis... 02-02-2013 03:12 AM JB Cases Way to parlay the "win". Next year if people ask their friends and family to vote I predict that a Chinese case will win by an amazingly huge margin.


Wedge
 
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I recently put the Jack Justis AZ 2012 case of the year I own up for sale. John Burton gave me a nice green rep for it today...go figure!!! Below is his comment: :deadhorse:



F/S AZ 2012 Jack Justis... 02-02-2013 03:12 AM JB Cases Way to parlay the "win". Next year if people ask their friends and family to vote I predict that a Chinese case will win by an amazingly huge margin.


Wedge

I think you mean Barton. John Barton.

Maniac
 
I just want John Barton to know that I'm not related to "wedge" nor have I ever met him, but I sure as hell voted for that simply beautiful Justis case. Yes, I am a satisfied Justis customer, so maybe my prejudice lies there.

By simply beautuful, I mean everything was simply stylish with the best materials and tooling....a classic, in other words. I'm not a fan of "too much bling"..in cues or cases!
 
I recently put the Jack Justis AZ 2012 case of the year I own up for sale. John Barton gave me a nice green rep for it today...go figure!!! Below is his comment: :deadhorse:



F/S AZ 2012 Jack Justis... 02-02-2013 03:12 AM JB Cases Way to parlay the "win". Next year if people ask their friends and family to vote I predict that a Chinese case will win by an amazingly huge margin.


Wedge

How was the 2012 case of the year determined? How many cases were submitted for voting? I don't recall seeing a poll on this. I will have to search for that thread.
 
How was the 2012 case of the year determined? How many cases were submitted for voting? I don't recall seeing a poll on this. I will have to search for that thread.

It was voted on here....but not on the main forum, on the cases forum.
 
Sour Grapes? Not at all. I merely congratulated you on a successful campaign. Jack Justis himself questioned why a case as amazing as the Armor case wouldn't get more votes.

My thought is that Yang and Bonnie didn't ask anyone to vote for their entry. If they did then it's a lock that they will receive the most votes.

I personally don't care what case won the Case of the Year voting. I thought that all of the entries were great and that we live in a fortunate time with a lot of amazing art.

To me they were all deserving candidates.

But I know that I didn't solicit votes. I think my entry got 6 votes and one of them was mine. I didn't send a single pm or email asking people to vote. However I know that you did solicit them. Which is something that is open to do I suppose. But that really wasn't the intention I think. The idea wasn't to win by asking for votes but instead to just allow the cases to be presented and let the viewers vote without any extra influence.

So with that in mind I personally won't be running any more Case of the Year contests because I feel that if they are open to manipulation then it spoils the fun a little bit. Obviously Jack was upset that he thought there must have been some manipulation.

So, you did a good job and got your votes and your case won. Now you can parlay that victory into a sale hopefully for more than you paid for the case.

Anyway, let's enjoy all the amazing cases one more time, and one more time congratulations.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=302024

We had 17 nominations, cases are grouped by maker. Pictures are listed under each number. Please refer to this thread for more detailed pictures of the nominated cases - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=300453

Voting is private and will run until the 15th of January.

1. Rusty Melton
035-9.jpg


2. Rusty Melton
20120811_131634.jpg


3. Rusty Melton
79ebdb7b.jpg


4. Rusty Melton
IMG_5833.jpg


5. Rusty Melton
attachment.php


6. Armor - Jive
IMG_1914.jpg


7. Armor - YangandBonnie
17327185420121229193942048.jpg


8. Jack Justis - Wedge
attachment.php


9. Jack Justis/Mooali - JB
422645_3734674766934_280130949_n.jpg


10. King Case - Lenoxmjs
attachment.php
 
11. Matcase - Big Tattoo
IMG_3601.jpg


12. JB Case - New2YouQs
thegoodside-a2-s.jpg


13. Quiverz - The Hustler
FullVelvet.jpg


14. Quiverz - Sitting Bull
SittingBull_SideFullRight.jpg


15. Quiverz - Frankenstein
attachment.php



16. Quiverz - Lord of the Rings
LOTR.jpg


17. Quiverz - Samurai Twin Dragons
P8281170.jpg
 
I just want John Barton to know that I'm not related to "wedge" nor have I ever met him, but I sure as hell voted for that simply beautiful Justis case. Yes, I am a satisfied Justis customer, so maybe my prejudice lies there.

By simply beautuful, I mean everything was simply stylish with the best materials and tooling....a classic, in other words. I'm not a fan of "too much bling"..in cues or cases!

I totally understand. I think it's an absolutely deserving case. In no way am I saying that it could not have won without "help". I am only saying that I wish it had won without any behind the scenes campaigning.

Wedge knows what he did and if he hadn't then no one would have alerted me to it and we wouldn't be having this distasteful discussion. It's a bummer and puts a sour spin on what was supposed to be a fun contest.

That he then puts the case up for sale and trumpets the Case of the Year "win" when even Jack Justis himself is unhappy about it is kind of a slap in the face. Especially when he is using it to attempt to sell it for much more than it retails for.

I am sorry, it's just bothers me. It's unfortunate that such a pleasant showcase of art is tainted by Wedge's actions. Jack and Ron Ross' work is truly elegant and beautiful and deserving.
 
John...Stop Contacting Me

I can read your posts on the threads...no need to PM me...here is the latest B.S. I got from John...get a life!


Well at least you got it off your chest. - Today, 10:23 PM

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I am sure that you have been a little bothered by this and I am glad you get to discuss why you did it. I didn't enjoy getting messages from people telling me you were asking for votes.

It really did taint what was supposed to be fun. Technically you didn't do anything wrong but when you're the only guy out there campaigning then it skews the competition.

Well, in any event it's back in discussion and as I predict, if such a contest happens next year whoever has the most friends and family will win.

It's true and you know it and that is unfortunate. It would have been awesome if you had simply allowed the cases to be voted on without campaigning.
 
I can read your posts on the threads...no need to PM me...

Just curious, does putting someone on your "ignore list" prevent them from PM'ing you?

If so, then maybe that would be your best solution.

Maniac (just trying to help)
 
I can read your posts on the threads...no need to PM me...here is the latest B.S. I got from John...get a life!


Well at least you got it off your chest. - Today, 10:23 PM

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I am sure that you have been a little bothered by this and I am glad you get to discuss why you did it. I didn't enjoy getting messages from people telling me you were asking for votes.

It really did taint what was supposed to be fun. Technically you didn't do anything wrong but when you're the only guy out there campaigning then it skews the competition.

Well, in any event it's back in discussion and as I predict, if such a contest happens next year whoever has the most friends and family will win.

It's true and you know it and that is unfortunate. It would have been awesome if you had simply allowed the cases to be voted on without campaigning.

I have a life. If you did not want to to talk about it then why make all this public?

I think perhaps you don't really think I have sour grapes but possibly you have some guilt for campaigning for votes. Or maybe not. You must have some reason for publishing private messages. If that reason is to tarnish my sterling reputation then I am sorry to inform you that you are far too late.

I mean I have no problem with you publishing what I told you in private. It's nothing different than what I said in public. It's entirely your choice to reveal your manipulation of the voting.

An unfortunately unpleasant veneer on a beautiful showcase.
 
Maybe I'm weird like this, but I find it stupefying that Wedge is getting called out by a non-winning casemaker for "campaigning" inside of a case of the year contest established by, and administered by,...the very same casemaker.

The fact that the very same casemaker participates in the contest is purely reasonable, right?

Would that casemaker have complained if the winning casemaker were someone other than his long-established adversary?

What if that casemaker had won & his customer was the one "guilty" of "campaigning"?
 
I agree. Lets take it a step further and say there is a difference in "campaining" members here vs. getting people to sign up just for the sake of getting votes. I see nothing wrong with telling people there is a vote happening and lets get some support. Did he get 21 people to vote over what he would have? Who cares... The fact is Jack builds the industry standard in custom cases. He is too proud to acknowledge that fact but lets face it, Jack has been the king of the mountain for quite sometime.

Maybe it was a conspiracy NOT to let a Chinese case win it?!?!?!?!?! You know I would have made 42 alias' not to let that happen... That would have been 3 less alias' than John has.

JV

Maybe I'm weird like this, but I find it stupefying that Wedge is getting called out by a non-winning casemaker for "campaigning" inside of a case of the year contest established by, and administered by,...the very same casemaker.

The fact that the very same casemaker participates in the contest is purely reasonable, right?

Would that casemaker have complained if the winning casemaker were someone other than his long-established adversary?

What if that casemaker had won & his customer was the one "guilty" of "campaigning"?
 
Personally, I think it's pretty petty and weaksauce to put someone on blast for a private message they sent you. Private messages are supposed to be just that, a private message. That's some first-grade bull crap. John didn't call you publicly, but yet you turn around and put his private message to you on blast? Do girls still have coodies? Grow up.
 
Maybe I'm weird like this, but I find it stupefying that Wedge is getting called out by a non-winning casemaker for "campaigning" inside of a case of the year contest established by, and administered by,...the very same casemaker.

The fact that the very same casemaker participates in the contest is purely reasonable, right?

Would that casemaker have complained if the winning casemaker were someone other than his long-established adversary?

What if that casemaker had won & his customer was the one "guilty" of "campaigning"?

I would have been disappointed if my customer had been actively campaigning for votes when no one else was. I would have felt the same sort of distaste as I do now.

And for the record the campaigning was brought to my attention by others. I can guess that if anyone else had been running the poll then it would have been brought to their attention as well.

I honestly didn't care which case or case maker won. TO me they are ALL winners and I mean that sincerely. I love this craft. I love the creativity. I love everyone's varied ways of making cases.

I don't love everyone who does it, I don't love ALL of their choices in construction or decoration but I honestly love the effort they put in.

I am sorry but I just found it to be a bit a bit of hubris to crow about winning in the for sale thread when winning came through campaigning in a contest where it wasn't really supposed to be a popularity contest. To be clear I don't think that Wedge cheated. I guess I just didn't think far enough in advance to think that he or Joe Van Buren or anyone would go so far as to use influence to gather votes. I am not the brightest bulb a lot of the time and I should have done it much differently.

As for me participating in the contest, I didn't really. I posted one case as my entry and that case was posted knowing it had no shot. I posted that case as a nod to Jamie who started the Cue of the Year poll because he saw my good side and allowed me to build him a case despite previous disagreements.

Had I wanted to really compete then I would have made it so that several more of our cases were put in that had a lot more work. I also would have made sure that those cases were shown off with lots of very flattering images.

I will tell you when such honors will mean something to me. When and if we case makers ever get a case show case of our own at the cue shows and if there is a Case Maker's Choice award is when winning will matter. Having an example of our work chosen as case of the year by my peers would be huge for me. All else is nice but ultimately fluff because that's a pure beauty contest. My peers know what goes into making a case and they look the deepest at the work. So if we ever made something that they felt was worthy of such an honor then it would in fact be an honor.
 
I don't see the point of this thread either but since we are all rambling about whatever I will say that the King case is outstanding and unique. Also, the first Armor is gorgeous but if it had one of JBs closure [not sure what it is called] with the stacked leather and magnet it could be even better which is saying something because it is stunning already. The best Justice case I believe that I have ever seen was a black elephant case that worldpro had for sale a few months back.
 
I agree. Lets take it a step further and say there is a difference in "campaining" members here vs. getting people to sign up just for the sake of getting votes. I see nothing wrong with telling people there is a vote happening and lets get some support. Did he get 21 people to vote over what he would have? Who cares... The fact is Jack builds the industry standard in custom cases. He is too proud to acknowledge that fact but lets face it, Jack has been the king of the mountain for quite sometime.

Maybe it was a conspiracy NOT to let a Chinese case win it?!?!?!?!?! You know I would have made 42 alias' not to let that happen... That would have been 3 less alias' than John has.

JV

I agree. There would be a difference of course. And I guess I wouldn't have minded the campaigning per se if it had been something that everyone knew about and was an expected part of the contest. I was naive to think that it would simply be a showcase without any campaigning. And absolutely signing people up just to vote would be horrible.

The whole thing is distasteful and unfortunate.

In the future I won't be running any polls like this for sure but if I were to then I wouldn't make the mistake of allowing the votes to be private. At least if anyone runs away from the field then the board can see who voted and make up their own minds about it.

As for conspiring to not allow a Chinese-made case to win it's sad that I think that is exactly the sort of thing I think you would do out of spite. I feel very bad that you can't simply appreciate art no matter where it's made but each person has their own motivation and so whether you were complicit or not I think that your hatred clouds your judgement. Hopefully someday that will change.
 
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