Rodeny Morris Beats the 13 ball Ghost usng CTE

JB Cases said:
I just watched this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6B1XncJoD0

You HAVE to watch it. I won't spoil it but if you haven't seen it you will thank me.

In this video it is said that Mosconi ran over 100 more than a 1000 times and ran over 200 more than 500 times. Think about that.
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I saw a replay of that on ESPN Classic one day, and I was GLUED! That's one of the all-time best woofing and all-around match-up playing I've seen. Even now, I'm cracking up at Fats, and I've seen/heard this video before.

I'm so glad this was posted to YouTube, and thanks for sharing this!
-Sean
 
JB Cases said:
That's what CTE looks like when done right. Align, move in to the shot line, shoot.
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Sorry John, I just don't believe that.
He's shot all those shots thousands of times.
He knows the line and cueball path after.

Now, if he says he was using cte and not getting paid for it, then I'll believe him. Not that it's impossible he was using cte or mental pivot there.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Sorry John, I just don't believe that.
He's shot all those shots thousands of times.
He knows the line and cueball path after.

Now, if he says he was using cte and not getting paid for it, then I'll believe him. Not that it's impossible he was using cte or mental pivot there.
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Joey you can believe what you want. I guess you can go on facebook and call Rodney a liar. You have no problem doing it here where he is not present.

It wasn't me claiming he is using CTE, it was his own statement that he is and that he finds it to be helping him to play better.

It not a mental pivot, you see this right here is the fundamental problem between people like you who are so dead-set against aiming systems. When a system like CTE is done right there is no obvious "pivot" unless the shooter makes it obvious and when it's the Pro-One version the pivot is all done as the player is coming into the ball.

But since you don't know what CTE is in the first place you can only speculate on what a pivot should look and feel like in actual play. Those of us who use this method KNOW what it looks and feels like. And we know that in play it is smooth and does not look funny or weird or stressed. It is a very quick and smooth motion to go from sighting to shooting.

But dude, keep on keeping on. Every post you make trying hard to denigrate and slam CTE and claim that pros are liars only means more discussion, more testimonials and more people eager to try out these aiming methods.

I personally don't see why you have adopted this as a personal crusade to make everyone use only ghost ball or pure feel but everyone needs a cause I guess. My point is that any player can always go back to GB or pure feel if they want to. No harm in trying something new that could make you a better player. Like Rodney. He didn't HAVE to listen to Stevie going on about CTE.

As you said he already has a ton of experience shooting millions of shots. But he did listen and he did learn and now he feels it's helping him to be a better player. If a well known pro can do something like this to change the way they look at the shots then why do you have a problem if amateurs also want to try new methods?
 
JB Cases said:
Joey you can believe what you want. I guess you can go on facebook and call Rodney a liar. You have no problem doing it here where he is not present.

It wasn't me claiming he is using CTE, it was his own statement that he is and that he finds it to be helping him to play better.

It not a mental pivot, you see this right here is the fundamental problem between people like you who are so dead-set against aiming systems. When a system like CTE is done right there is no obvious "pivot" unless the shooter makes it obvious and when it's the Pro-One version the pivot is all done as the player is coming into the ball.

But since you don't know what CTE is in the first place you can only speculate on what a pivot should look and feel like in actual play. Those of us who use this method KNOW what it looks and feels like. And we know that in play it is smooth and does not look funny or weird or stressed. It is a very quick and smooth motion to go from sighting to shooting.

But dude, keep on keeping on. Every post you make trying hard to denigrate and slam CTE and claim that pros are liars only means more discussion, more testimonials and more people eager to try out these aiming methods.

I personally don't see why you have adopted this as a personal crusade to make everyone use only ghost ball or pure feel but everyone needs a cause I guess. My point is that any player can always go back to GB or pure feel if they want to. No harm in trying something new that could make you a better player. Like Rodney. He didn't HAVE to listen to Stevie going on about CTE.

As you said he already has a ton of experience shooting millions of shots. But he did listen and he did learn and now he feels it's helping him to be a better player. If a well known pro can do something like this to change the way they look at the shots then why do you have a problem if amateurs also want to try new methods?
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Isn't this like one of those episodes where you apologized for ?

If Allison Fisher and J Lee claim they use the Spider laser aim trainer, I guess you'd have to believe them too.

If he's no doing physical pivot where I can see him pivoting, you're telling me it's not mental ? He's not THINKING or IMAGINING a line here then here?
If it's not that way, my bad.
My point is that any player can always go back to GB or pure feel if they want to.
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In this case, IT APPEARED TO ME he was just shooting thru that line and knowing where the cueball goes after.
Maybe he had the same euphoria like you did after getting taught HH system.

If Rodney truly used CTE in this video, then my bad.

btw I didn't say Rodney used GB in this video. It just looked to me he just shot through the line.
 
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JoeyInCali said:
Isn't this like one of those episodes where you apologized for ?
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No, I am being very nice about the fact that you are calling Rodney Morris a liar on this forum.

If Allison Fisher and J Lee claim they use the Spider laser aim trainer, I guess you'd have to believe them too.
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Do you see anywhere that Rodney is a paid endorser of the CTE method? Who would be paying him? Stevie? Stan?

If he's no doing physical pivot where I can see him pivoting, you're telling me it's not mental ? He's not THINKING or IMAGINING a line here then here?
If it's not that way, my bad.
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Again, since you don't know how to perform either CTE or ProOne then you wouldn't know what the pivot looks or feels like. To you the pivot should look like this PIVOT when in fact it looks like this pivot.

In this case, IT APPEARED TO ME he was just shooting thru that line and knowing where the cueball goes after.
Maybe he had the same euphoria like you did after getting taught HH system.
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I know what it appears to you like. The same thing that it appears to be to all anti-system people, a guy shooting with confidence and no apparent special method.

I am sure he is feeling some euphoria because this method of aiming is totally objective. It takes most of the feel out it to the point where it feels like almost zero feel. For him it's even bigger than for me because he already has the professional level execution skills to go with the superior aiming method.

If Rodney truly used CTE in this video, then my bad.
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Yep, your bad. Which I guess is sort of an apology for calling him a liar. What possible gain does Rodney have EVEN IF he were getting paid to endorse ProOne (which I am 100% sure he isn't) to lie about it and let videos be posted of him shooting right after he said that he is using it?

Instead of coming here to imply that Rodney is lying why don't you simply ask him on Facebook? Is that so hard for you, a skeptic, to ask him outright how he is aiming? And if he says CTE/ProOne then you can ask him outright if he is being paid to use it?
 
Instead of coming here to imply that Rodney is lying why don't you simply ask him on Facebook? Is that so hard for you, a skeptic, to ask him outright how he is aiming? And if he says CTE/ProOne then you can ask him outright if he is being paid to use it?
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John, you're being a dk. I'm not friends with Rodney in FB and asking him if he's getting paid is intrusive.
My point is that any player can always go back to GB or pure feel if they want to. No harm in trying something new that could make you a better player. Like Rodney. He didn't HAVE to listen to Stevie going on about CTE.
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From looking at that video, it appeared to me he was just shooting through the line on the same shots he's shot thousands before.
NONE of those shots in that video needed any system to me.

I'll try to ask Rodney when he gets here .
 
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I just stumbled upon this thread while viewing the forum listings. I have been spending a good amount of time with Rodney in Vegas lately and was there when Stevie was teaching him CTE. They worked on it for awhile over a couple days and Rodney really took to it. He is playing great pool right now and I know CTE along with the many hours of practice he is putting in is really helping out. He is not getting paid to use CTE at all, he believes in it. It did cross my mind to record video on my phone the convo between Stevie and Rodney while he was being taught that so the non believers of systems could see that pros really do use it. Personally I do not use CTE and use the shaft method that Shane uses but remember all these systems are worthless if you do not practice, play, practice some more and make sure all your mechanics are tip top I feel, more than knowing where to aim goes into making the ball.
 
JoeyInCali said:
John, you're being a dk. I'm not friends with Rodney in FB and asking him if he's getting paid is intrusive.

From looking at that video, it appeared to me he was just shooting through the line on the same shots he's shot thousands before.
NONE of those shots in that video needed any system to me.

I'll try to ask Rodney when he gets here .
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It's ok I jsut asked him for you on FB. We will see what he says.

And no, I am not being a dick. I am being real. You have consistently tried to discredit CTE and those who use it and those who teach it with little jabs all the time.

The thing is that of course no shot NEEDS a system if you believe that systems aren't valid or needed. But then again if a person is shooting with a system and making all the shots then of course they LOOK easy to the observer.

The whole point of using the system is to be SURE you are on the line. Since you are so rabidly anti-system you skip over all the times where people who learn them say things like "the shot doesn't look right with the system but when you trust the line given the ball goes in". In other words when you say that a shot doesn't need a system then what you are saying is that a player should rely on his feeling and what he has done before which may feel right but be wrong.

Let me remind you again of what Rodney said that prompted this thread.

"I was shown a better way to aim. That's why I'm hitting em a lot better. Stevie Moore showed me a little about CTE Pro1. Center to Edge got me started in the right direction, and I'm practicing that for awhile now. Pretty neat:)" - Rodney Morris

Can it be any more clear than that?
 
The whole point of using the system is to be SURE you are on the line. Since you are so rabidly anti-system you skip over all the times where people who learn them say things like "the shot doesn't look right with the system but when you trust the line given the ball goes in". In other words when you say that a shot doesn't need a system then what you are saying is that a player should rely on his feeling and what he has done before which may feel right but be wrong.
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Not true.
I can't argue over Marvin Chin or equal opposite parts or double the distance system. You have argued and made videos how ghost ball doesn't work.
But, snooker and pool instructors like Jerry Breisath, Ralph Eckert and some other snooker coaches show it's a valid method.
BTW, Larry at Hard Times taught CTE eons ago. And some old Marvin dude at HT also taught a CTE-type system. So did Colliding Spheres Robert McCollough (sp ? ) .
And fwiw, if not for people like Dr Dave showing the limits of the HH system, Pro-1 might not be here. Dr Dave was attacked by the higans then. Now it appears to me , they were wrong.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Not true.
I can't argue over Marvin Chin or equal opposite parts or double the distance system. You have argued and made videos how ghost ball doesn't work.
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I have made no such videos saying GB doesn't work. You COULD certainly question the ESTIMATION required in the Equal Opposite and Double the Distance methods. But apparently you think estimation is good enough to play high level pool but not good enough to make pool cues. Do you estimate the size of your butts by working them on a wood lathe with a chisel and sandpaper until they feel about right or do you use a dial indicator on a precision mounted tool rest?


But, snooker and pool instructors like Jerry Breisath, Ralph Eckert and some other snooker coaches show it's a valid method.
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Again never said GB isn't a valid method. Of course it's "valid". It's just simply not the best way to aim in my opinion and in the opinion of many other instructors and professional players with equally as many qualifications as Jerry Breisath and Ralf Eckert.

I never said Ghost Ball does not work. Nor have I said it's not valid. In fact I have said the exact opposite.


I said that Ghost Ball is a great method for teaching beginners to play. And it's a great method for checking your line. Once you have a line then it actually is a little easier to imagine a ghost ball and see if it lines up.

I have in fact said that any valid aiming method HAS to end up with a line that points to the GB. And I have advocated using GB to learn CTE in reverse.

So please don't mislead people as to what I have said.

I do stand by my statement that I think GB is NOT a good method for intermediate to high level players. I have given my reasons for that but it boils down to estimation. Not that you really care why since you seem to think I advocate the abolition of Ghost Ball as an aiming method. For you this is somehow a war between GB and CTE. For me it's not, it's that there are other ways to aim which people can try and people like you who are trying hard to stop players from even considering any other method than GB. You seem to think that Jerry Briesath and Marvin Chin and Robert Byrne are the sacred keepers of the One True Aiming Method or something.

BTW, Larry at Hard Times taught CTE eons ago. And some old Marvin dude at HT also taught a CTE-type system. So did Colliding Spheres Robert McCollough (sp ? ) .
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I don't know who Larry or Marvin is but it makes sense since CTE-like methods have been around a long time just not easy to put into print so the GB method is the one that gets used because it's the easiest to diagram and explain. What is your point here? If you know people that taught it "eons ago" then you should have learned it then and you would be able to explain it now. Is is possible however that you were one of the people who turned his nose up at the idea that anything but GB or a derivative could possibly work? If so then that would explain why you are so rabidly against CTE and other non-GB systems. If you thought Larry and Marvin were teaching crap then you certainly aren't going to think that Hal or Stan are doing any better.

And fwiw, if not for people like Dr Dave showing the limits of the HH system, Pro-1 might not be here. Dr Dave was attacked by the higans then. Now it appears to me , they were wrong
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When? Which Houle system did Dave show the limits of? But that said ProOne IS here and it's obviously completely effective and works as advertised. So why do you keep trying to discredit it?

As for Dave Alciatore and other critics being responsible for ProOne's existence that is a joke of the highest order. He is partially responsible for the existence of a ProOne DVD because the person who developed ProOne from CTE which itself has NO limitations finally got tired of being labeled a snake-oil salesman by Dr. Dave and people like you.

So he put that information on a DVD.

Anyway the point is that this is NOT a war between GB and CTE or any other aiming method.

GB exists and will always exist. There will never be a time when it's not a part of pool and billiards. So even if I did dream of a time when no one uses it that's never going to happen. I don't tell anyone not to learn it. In fact I say the opposite, learn it and take it as far as you can and then if you are not happy with where your game is at then try something else.

What upsets me is that despite all the evidence and all the testimonials you persist in denigrating CTE and aiming methods other than GB. You asked for pros who use it, we gave that to you, you asked for titles won by pros who admit to using non-GB aiming systems, we gave you that, you asked for particular shot examples using CTE, we gave you that, you asked for us to show you we can play, you have been given that, you asked for people to show CTE in action, now you have that, you asked for credentialed instructors who teach these aiming methods, we gave you that. What else do you want?

You persist in actively trying to get people to NOT try those methods.

Why?
 
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My questions to Rodney on FB.

1. Earlier you mentioned that you like CTE/ProOne. Is this the aiming method you are using here?

2. If so are you being paid to use it?

It was implied by someone else that you are endorsing it because you are getting paid. I don't think so and would like to hear your answer.

Rodney's reply:

"john, i am not getting paid. i dont even know the system well. stevie moore just showed me a couple things and i like it. hes a buddy too so naturally i would endorse him and help him out. but it has to be true and work, otherwise i wouldnt say it"

There you go Joey. Oh and to remind everyone this was in a new thread on FB where Rodney beat the 15 ball Ghost. Need anything else?
 
Fast Lenny said:
I just stumbled upon this thread while viewing the forum listings. I have been spending a good amount of time with Rodney in Vegas lately and was there when Stevie was teaching him CTE. They worked on it for awhile over a couple days and Rodney really took to it. He is playing great pool right now and I know CTE along with the many hours of practice he is putting in is really helping out. He is not getting paid to use CTE at all, he believes in it. It did cross my mind to record video on my phone the convo between Stevie and Rodney while he was being taught that so the non believers of systems could see that pros really do use it. Personally I do not use CTE and use the shaft method that Shane uses but remember all these systems are worthless if you do not practice, play, practice some more and make sure all your mechanics are tip top I feel, more than knowing where to aim goes into making the ball.
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I agree 100%. I have found that aiming accurately amplifies bad mechanics. Now instead of using body english to throw a ball into the pocket to compensate for bad aim it's really easy for any movement to throw a ball OUT of the pocket when the shot line is dead on.

I found after learning CTE that I really needed to go back and fix my stroke. I still do. But I put in some hours and a sore arm getting from awful and completely inconsistent to just slightly bad and less inconsistent.

If you start out with top-shelf fundamentals like Rodney has then it is much easier to adopt an aimign method like CTE in my opinion.
 
sfleinen said:
And I would agree with you, to a point. Afterall, you "embed" a system by going through its step consciously, but you also, IMHO, have to integrate some what I like to call "take the harnesses off, and just fly" practice. Put the rubber to the road and drive.

Obviously, this was too early to draw any conclusions. It's encouraging that your 9-ball play went up when you told your busybody backseat driver (the conscious mind) to shut up. I think the more you do this, the more you'll see your performance go up. It might be steady incremental jumps you practice, or it might be one of those where you flatline out for just a little bit, but then make another incremental jump later, flatline out a bit, another incremental jump, etc. In fact, the latter is what I experienced. I think it's the process of "learning to trust yourself" that causes this.

It might seem foreign to those that've always deliberated and scrutinzed the minutiae of shooting a pool shot, but it's something that, once you get it, you'll experience pool in whole new enjoyable way. You'll get in the zone that much quicker once you tell that busybody backseat driver to shut up.

-Sean
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Practiced a little bit tonight, mostly 14.1 I tried without thinking, and with being more deliberate with Pro One. This time I did better with thinking about the aiming process. 18, 12, and 10 were my three highest runs.
 
JB Cases said:
Here you go Joey,

Gerry is telling you what he is doing on every shot. Can you see the pivot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLjvXoVrDaI
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A shout-out to Gerry -- nicely done video and instructive approach! Gerry's well-spoken, non-droning, and "gets right to it" when describing how to execute the system on each shot. In this case, brevity really helps to cut through the chatter I've found in other "here's how I do this aiming system" videos. (Of course, one needs to have viewed Stan's video first, to know what Gerry's referring to when he says e.g., "edge to 'C', left pivot.")

Good job, Gerry!
-Sean
 
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