Best scientific aiming explanation

[icem3n]

The shot you illustrated is basically a maximum "Inside Spin" shot and, even though my table was just recovered worked fine. I know this shot because it's a basis for a kicking system I use, just haven't had it come up in many games if this fashion.

What specifically was your point with the LD shaft reference?

Yeap, inside spin with good tip, cueball and cloth would help alot.

I just want to point out that LD and conventional shaft react differently.

One might need a different method for LD shaft when intending to use side spin.

Pivot point is way further back for LD shaft if one were to use BHE.

 

[icem3n]

Ice,

You seem to be saying that you are having trouble applying more than one(1) tip of english using BHE with an LD shaft. I can certainly understand that if you are doing so under the exact premise of aiming for a 'normal' cut & then apply BHE. For instance in your example, given the closeness of the two(2) balls one might wind up hitting the ball too full.

I have used 'parallel' E, BHE, FHE, & combo B&FHE. I have found that even though BHE is supposed to be a 'mechanical' compensation for 'squirt', it still comes down to a matter of feel & even how one strokes the cue ball & the speed of the stroke. I have only been using LD sahfts for 8 months & to be honest I have a juiced, sanded down 314 Cat that I would never attempt BHE with as the swerve will almost always be more than the 'squirt' on any but the shortest of shots.

In other words, allow yourself to make small adjustments or try slightly different methods. For instance, if you realize that you wind up hiitting your example shot too full most of the time, you might want to set up for BHE but only go maybe 1/2 as far as you want & then add the rest by sliding your front hand the rest of the way. This will change the 'aim' of the shot, essentially adding cut to compensate for the the less 'squirt'. It may sound complicated & I quess it is a bit. But with use it becomes easier every time.

All that being said, you don't need all that much english. When I say english I don't refer to just 3:00 & 9:00. I hardly ever use those two(2). I might use 2:00 or 8:00 or less. In your example I would probably use 1:30 & try to get as much spin to speed ratio as I can. It does not require that much speed if you can get the spin. I use a soft tip for just that purpose.

Now all that being said, I'm working on CJ's method & I see that it can definitely work with much less mental & feel 'calculations'. But that shot, his way, for me, requires a firmer hit than I like or am comfortable with, but I'm getting there. I may have to switch to a firmer tip.

Sorry for the rant. I hope something in it helps you.

Regards & Shoot Well,

Thanks for the info. I am able to execute the shot with both LD and conventional shaft comfortably.

 

[CJ Wiley]

deflection helps create zones, and this is beneficial.

Thanks for the info. I am able to execute the shot with both LD and conventional shaft comfortably.

How do you adjust that's different for each shaft? I have used some LD shafts with little trouble, I do have trouble with the Predator ones though. It's been a few years, I've heard they're better now and deflect slightly more....If a cue didn't deflect at all I could not use it.....it would be a huge disadvantage for me, deflection helps me hit different parts of the pocket, and this is beneficial.

 

[icem3n]

How do you adjust that's different for each shaft? I have used some LD shafts with little trouble, I do have trouble with the Predator ones though.

Champ, pm sent. :grin:

deflection helps me hit different parts of the pocket, and this is beneficial.

Yes, it does help me in many ways too.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Champ, pm sent. :grin:



Yes, it does help me in many ways too.

Why a PM? We want to know too.

 

[icem3n]

Why a PM? We want to know too.

You got it covered from your previous post.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

I only selected one variable. Throw. My understanding of CTE is that it's visuals have built in compensation for this law of physics. Ghost ball does not.

JC
.

I have indicated that the model excluded throw. I can't for the life of me understand why you continue on this line of discourse?

All I am left to assume is you felt it a good way to push CTE and undermine ghost ball.

I have been very neutral and let the science speak for itself!

Like I told john Barton I am telling you that "you win"

I did not post here to engage in a forum fight and stay clear of the aiming section. This being my first contribution to the topic. I am very hesitant of posting other items on the topic as i find them.

KD
Mike Wilson


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[one stroke]

Exactly, squirt and swerve are all forms of English that effect the path to the point of CONTACT.

Contact point is the alpha and omega of AIMING. Nothing else matters more? The model assumes ZERO English applied.

Squirt swerve are all variables that vary depending on speed, equipment and friction.

Are you saying aiming for low deflection cues are same for non low deflection?

These aiming systems assume ALOT of variables are consistent regarding squirt and swerve and deflection prior to contact.

This video helps illustrate the contact point which is the ONLY true aiming point. In my opinion.

Kd
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

So what about contact induced throw how do you factor that in


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[JB Cases]

I have indicated that the model excluded throw. I can't for the life of me understand why you continue on this line of discourse?

All I am left to assume is you felt it a good way to push CTE and undermine ghost ball.

I have been very neutral and let the science speak for itself!

Like I told john Barton I am telling you that "you win"

I did not post here to engage in a forum fight and stay clear of the aiming section. This being my first contribution to the topic. I am very hesitant of posting other items on the topic as i find them.

KD
Mike Wilson


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Again this shouldn't even be in the aiming section. The video is not about aiming. It's just a very simple example of showing the basic math in a billiards collision.

It's not about CTE or using LD shafts.

As for undermining Ghost Ball - maybe ghost ball should be talked about in depth as to it's viability. It's not going away and it IS the very best way to explain aiming to beginners. But maybe it's not the best thing for intermediate and advanced players.

 

[JB Cases]

Try this.

Use a LD shaft with BHE. Shoot the yellow (Yellow is one ball away from the rail) into the corner and have the c/b going three rails and back to the centre of the table (original position).

Let me know how it goes.

You first. You put it on video of you doing this shot and I will duplicate it with BHE using an LD shaft and a regular shaft. In fact I will duplicate it using a variety of laminated shafts. Or I should say I will try to.

 

[CJ Wiley]

using the "ghost ball" to actually play the game

Again this shouldn't even be in the aiming section. The video is not about aiming. It's just a very simple example of showing the basic math in a billiards collision.

It's not about CTE or using LD shafts.

As for undermining Ghost Ball - maybe ghost ball should be talked about in depth as to it's viability. It's not going away and it IS the very best way to explain aiming to beginners. But maybe it's not the best thing for intermediate and advanced players.

I would question whether the "ghost ball" is the "very best way to teach aiming to beginners"....if advanced players can't see "ghosts," I'm pretty sure beginners can't either.

From what I've read and experienced the ones that try to explain "ghost ball aiming" are the ones that don't understand how the aiming process is really working. I do understand that you use the "ghost ball" to show an example of what's happening when the cue ball contacts the object ball (and this can be explained to beginners, but only in theory, not in practice).

I'm talking about using the "ghost ball" to actually play the game with....this is difficult to relate to. I know many pros claim to not know what they're aiming at or their system, this is different than saying they aim at something imaginary.

Find the "authority" on ghost ball aiming and I would like to debate this topic in a professional manner. They can explain what they're doing and I'm free to ask questions that they must answer and I'll explain what I'm doing and they are free to ask questions that I must answer. This is completely fair, and would be very educational to those that are interested in knowing.

....or imaginary balls or whatever, I don't even understand how this can be described with a straight face. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[one stroke]

I would question whether the "ghost ball" is the "very best way to teach aiming to beginners"....if advanced players can't see "ghosts," I'm pretty sure beginners can't either.

From what I've read and experienced the ones that try to explain "ghost ball aiming" are the ones that don't understand how the aiming process is really working. I do understand that you use the "ghost ball" to show an example of what's happening when the cue ball contacts the object ball (and this can be explained to beginners, but only in theory, not in practice).

I'm talking about using the "ghost ball" to actually play the game with....this is difficult to relate to. I know many pros claim to not know what they're aiming at or their system, this is different than saying they aim at something imaginary.

Find the "authority" on ghost ball aiming and I would like to debate this topic in a professional manner. They can explain what they're doing and I'm free to ask questions that they must answer and I'll explain what I'm doing and they are free to ask questions that I must answer. This is completely fair, and would be very educational to those that are interested in knowing.

....or imaginary balls or whatever, I don't even understand how this can be described with a straight face. 'The Game is the Teacher'

And just what aiming system would you say is the easiest. I've taught many beginners a straight line ghost ball aiming method it's never had anyone who did not understand it. Maybe I'm missing something or maybe I'm teaching something else

1

 

[JB Cases]

I would question whether the "ghost ball" is the "very best way to teach aiming to beginners"....if advanced players can't see "ghosts," I'm pretty sure beginners can't either.

From what I've read and experienced the ones that try to explain "ghost ball aiming" are the ones that don't understand how the aiming process is really working. I do understand that you use the "ghost ball" to show an example of what's happening when the cue ball contacts the object ball (and this can be explained to beginners, but only in theory, not in practice).

I'm talking about using the "ghost ball" to actually play the game with....this is difficult to relate to. I know many pros claim to not know what they're aiming at or their system, this is different than saying they aim at something imaginary.

Find the "authority" on ghost ball aiming and I would like to debate this topic in a professional manner. They can explain what they're doing and I'm free to ask questions that they must answer and I'll explain what I'm doing and they are free to ask questions that I must answer. This is completely fair, and would be very educational to those that are interested in knowing.

....or imaginary balls or whatever, I don't even understand how this can be described with a straight face. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Fair enough but to test this we would need to get a group of beginners and teach some of them GB and teach others something else and measure progress.

What I mean though is that in my opinion GB is the fastest way to get a person lined up in the right direction. It's easy to diagram on a chalkboard to explain shot lines and easy to demonstrate on a pool table with an actual ball to represent the GB.

The problem comes along quickly however when you start to explain compensation for spin, speed, throw, cling, friction, humidity and gravitational pull.

How would you explain aiming to a beginner? I am all for scrapping GB if possible for the reasons I mentioned above. So if I can teach without using it at all then I would be really happy to do that.

 

[icem3n]

You first. You put it on video of you doing this shot and I will duplicate it with BHE using an LD shaft and a regular shaft.

I will not use a BHE method with a LD shaft. The pivot point is just far to the rear. Regular shaft is not a problem, provided that you got your bridge distance right.

In fact I will duplicate it using a variety of laminated shafts. Or I should say I will try to.

A full laminated shafts (wood only, not coupled with other low density material) whether radial or flat, does not make it a LD shaft (low squirt or which ever term you would use).

LD shafts have lower front end density. These can achieve by having hollow front end, form core or even carbon core etc.

Do a search here. There have been a few discussion about laminated LD shafts.


Lastly, I haven't got the time to play pool. I got too much work. I will try find a time during Easter to do a video. But this is not a promise.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Ball pocketing is a result of a chain reaction, and it starts with the feet

And just what aiming system would you say is the easiest. I've taught many beginners a straight line ghost ball aiming method it's never had anyone who did not understand it. Maybe I'm missing something or maybe I'm teaching something else

1

I agree that it's the way to illustrate how the cue ball must be positioned relative to the object ball to create the right angle. This does help beginners to understand the concept of ball pocketing, however, it there's no system {of connection} to show them it gets confusing. imo

I believe in ALIGNING the two balls together and this gives the player a solid connection between the two balls to create the angle. The connection you make above the cue ball visually is the foundation you will use as a reference to build all the angles between cue ball/object ball/pocket.

If you don't stress this relationship, {and just teach the beginner to "aim" one ball at another} it breaks the game into several parts as opposed to "BLENDING" them together.

It's like teaching someone to aim a bow and arrow without teaching them how to stand, load the arrow and pull back the bow.

Ball pocketing is a result of a chain reaction, and it starts with the feet, and aligns to the eyes/cue/cue ball/object ball before you can even begin to hit where you're "aiming".

It's also like sighting a rifle, if you're body and eyes aren't aligned to the gun you will have a tough time hitting the target. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[JB Cases]

I will not use a BHE method with a LD shaft. The pivot point is just far to the rear. Regular shaft is not a problem, provided that you got your bridge distance right.



A full laminated shafts (wood only, not coupled with other low density material) whether radial or flat, does not make it a LD shaft (low squirt or which ever term you would use).

LD shafts have lower front end density. These can achieve by having hollow front end, form core or even carbon core etc.

Do a search here. There have been a few discussion about laminated LD shafts.


Lastly, I haven't got the time to play pool. I got too much work. I will try find a time during Easter to do a video. But this is not a promise.

Thanks. Since i was with Predator since the 6 splice days (the beginning) I know what an ld shaft is.

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[icem3n]

Thanks. Since i was with Predator since the 6 splice days (the beginning) I know what an ld shaft is.

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

I might even do one 'Diamond system' aiming if I do get the chance to do the video. :grin:

 

[BeiberLvr]

I will not use a BHE method with a LD shaft. The pivot point is just far to the rear. Regular shaft is not a problem, provided that you got your bridge distance right.

Well according to the screenshot above from a Dr. Dave video, the pivot point on a LD shaft isn't that much further back than a typical shaft.

I can assure you that my bridge length isn't anywhere near as far back on my Z2. In fact, my pivot point is probably closer to the break shaft pivot point as shown in the picture.

If you're having problems with a LD shaft, maybe you're just doing it wrong.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

I agree that it's the way to illustrate how the cue ball must be positioned relative to the object ball to create the right angle. This does help beginners to understand the concept of ball pocketing, however, it there's no system {of connection} to show them it gets confusing. imo

I believe in ALIGNING the two balls together and this gives the player a solid connection between the two balls to create the angle. The connection you make above the cue ball visually is the foundation you will use as a reference to build all the angles between cue ball/object ball/pocket.

If you don't stress this relationship, {and just teach the beginner to "aim" one ball at another} it breaks the game into several parts as opposed to "BLENDING" them together.

It's like teaching someone to aim a bow and arrow without teaching them how to stand, load the arrow and pull back the bow.

Ball pocketing is a result of a chain reaction, and it starts with the feet, and aligns to the eyes/cue/cue ball/object ball before you can even begin to hit where you're "aiming".

It's also like sighting a rifle, if you're body and eyes aren't aligned to the gun you will have a tough time hitting the target. 'The Game is the Teacher'

I agree with this. Very good post. Feet alignment and body alignment are very important! Your analogy with firearms is good also. Firearms. Stress foot placement and shoulders square similar to pool fundamentals. Aiming systems with out proper set up are doomed to fail. Imo

Kd

Mike Wilson
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[JB Cases]

Regarding pivot points and BHE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNrpN3V15fY