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Unforseen benefit of TOI
- Thread starter whitewolf
- Start date
CJ = eagerlyl awaiting the next lesson; bring on the long shots and max TOI please ! Thanks again.
I have been working on TOI and am having good results. I do find that I have to go over more than what is recommended. I am being very careful to parallel and not pivot. It's a work in progress.
I don't know if this question has been asked: Should one use a regular shaft or can you get the same results with a LD shaft?
Another question I have because I don't quite understand: If you are using either center ball or the edge, how do you aim for the edge of the pocket? Do you just aim a little off from the center or edge to do this?
TOI works. Like anything else, you have to practice to perfect. I am in the beginning stages and I still have a long way to go. Stroke and speed and hitting the CB correctly is imperative.
I don't know if this question has been asked: Should one use a regular shaft or can you get the same results with a LD shaft?
Another question I have because I don't quite understand: If you are using either center ball or the edge, how do you aim for the edge of the pocket? Do you just aim a little off from the center or edge to do this?
TOI works. Like anything else, you have to practice to perfect. I am in the beginning stages and I still have a long way to go. Stroke and speed and hitting the CB correctly is imperative.
After re-reading my post, I don't think I described my delima. In your DVD you say that in cut shots with over a half ball hit, you should aim center to edge, not center to center as you said in your earlier post.
I very much look forward to your discussion of longer shots and TOI.
Thanks, WW
adjusting (minutely) my TOI and Speed to Center Pocket so I'm not caught off guard
Yes, I align all my shots to either the center or the edge. On most shots over a "half ball hit" you will naturally align Center to Edge ABOVE the cue ball and then get down TOI. When you start striking the cue ball more precisely you will find your TOI reduces as you start connecting your cue perfectly straight to the inside target on the cue ball.
References are made to going over a "tip or two", however, you still have to calibrate the touch of inside to your own stroke and it will evolve, like most other things in life. I've found that my game never stays the same, it's either getting better or not, so I am constantly adjusting (minutely) my TOI and Speed to Center Pocket so I'm not caught off guard if anything in my game changes unconsciously.
You will also notice on your "long shots" you may start aligning center to center on cut shots that are thinner than a "half ball hit". As I work more and more with players I see this come up and it's usually a sign - my comment on one of your posts was presumptuous, I thought you may be having this issue.
On the other end of the spectrum you will find when the balls are close together, you will align to the Edge of the object ball when the angle is thicker than a "half ball angle". It's either center or edge, so when calibrating your angles if one is producing a consistent over cut or under cut you will want to adjust either your TOI, shot speed, or alignment. This system gives you a clear cut way to adjust your game immediately, which is a journey, not a destination. Other players may not be as fortunate.
In conclusion: I've found on a full 8'-9' shot I can align center to center on even a paper thin cut shot. Everyone's going have a different visual perception, so I would just recommend if you're over cutting ball with a Center to Edge alignment, try shifting to a Center to Center, and "the Game" may provide a solution right away. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Yes, I align all my shots to either the center or the edge. On most shots over a "half ball hit" you will naturally align Center to Edge ABOVE the cue ball and then get down TOI. When you start striking the cue ball more precisely you will find your TOI reduces as you start connecting your cue perfectly straight to the inside target on the cue ball.
References are made to going over a "tip or two", however, you still have to calibrate the touch of inside to your own stroke and it will evolve, like most other things in life. I've found that my game never stays the same, it's either getting better or not, so I am constantly adjusting (minutely) my TOI and Speed to Center Pocket so I'm not caught off guard if anything in my game changes unconsciously.
You will also notice on your "long shots" you may start aligning center to center on cut shots that are thinner than a "half ball hit". As I work more and more with players I see this come up and it's usually a sign - my comment on one of your posts was presumptuous, I thought you may be having this issue.
On the other end of the spectrum you will find when the balls are close together, you will align to the Edge of the object ball when the angle is thicker than a "half ball angle". It's either center or edge, so when calibrating your angles if one is producing a consistent over cut or under cut you will want to adjust either your TOI, shot speed, or alignment. This system gives you a clear cut way to adjust your game immediately, which is a journey, not a destination. Other players may not be as fortunate.
In conclusion: I've found on a full 8'-9' shot I can align center to center on even a paper thin cut shot. Everyone's going have a different visual perception, so I would just recommend if you're over cutting ball with a Center to Edge alignment, try shifting to a Center to Center, and "the Game" may provide a solution right away. 'The Game is the Teacher'
CJ,
Do you prefer to find a speed or a stroke to offset the throw (OB)? Or both?
Also IIRC I don't remember you going accross the zone in your shots (in the match with Miz. that you posted) but it's been a while since I watched it, and I didn't have that in mind when watching. Where do you feel that going with a 'natural' path into the zone fits into your shot selection as far as its' priority vs. the shot selections you have been speaking of in recent posts? I hope this makes sense.
It's just that the 4000 shot route does cater to that 'perfect' path, and the mindset that goes along with it as well as the paradigm I have from years of labor to get that knowledge are difficult to overcome. The error
prone aspect of the 4000 shots is the best incentive IMO toward your TOI
system. Did you turn that corner when your Omaha friend pushed you to start making money (from your story) instead of breaking even??
Thanks,
td
Do you prefer to find a speed or a stroke to offset the throw (OB)? Or both?
Also IIRC I don't remember you going accross the zone in your shots (in the match with Miz. that you posted) but it's been a while since I watched it, and I didn't have that in mind when watching. Where do you feel that going with a 'natural' path into the zone fits into your shot selection as far as its' priority vs. the shot selections you have been speaking of in recent posts? I hope this makes sense.
It's just that the 4000 shot route does cater to that 'perfect' path, and the mindset that goes along with it as well as the paradigm I have from years of labor to get that knowledge are difficult to overcome. The error
prone aspect of the 4000 shots is the best incentive IMO toward your TOI
system. Did you turn that corner when your Omaha friend pushed you to start making money (from your story) instead of breaking even??
Thanks,
td
I'll 2nd. that if it has not already been done.
evolving
You were right again. Thanks for the advice CJ, my shifts are getting closer together and as a result I was overcutting balls. I am working more on the feel of the shot and I am making most shots again. This is on my 10' table with triple shims. On a bar table all of these shots would fall. Keep up the good advice, I really appreciate all of the advice you have given to so many of us.:thumbup: Larry
You were right again. Thanks for the advice CJ, my shifts are getting closer together and as a result I was overcutting balls. I am working more on the feel of the shot and I am making most shots again. This is on my 10' table with triple shims. On a bar table all of these shots would fall. Keep up the good advice, I really appreciate all of the advice you have given to so many of us.:thumbup: Larry
Reading both statements, yours & the quote by TSW, The following thought came to mind & I will probably will get some flack.
That being the case, keep in mind it is just a thought that entered my mind & not intended to put down how anyone chooses to play. To each his own.
Back in the day, 'most' thought the world was flat. Not all, but most. Then Columbus set out to get east by going west because the world is not flat but round, well round with a bulge in the middle from the spin. Well Columbus & his guys were correct, but what they did not realize was just how big the spinning ball was & a whole new world was discovered. Today...I don't think one could find an intelligent individual that still thinks the world is flat.
Remember it was just a thought that popped into my head.
Regards to All no matter how you choose to play,
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The difference is that when Eratosthenes estimated the circumference of the Earth, he had logic behind him. Not just hand-waving and assertions.
Y'all are adults and can believe whatever you want to believe. What bothers me the most about these gimmicks is their effect on beginners. I don't want people just learning the game come across this thread and waste their time, and impede their development, looking for a magic bullet. The game is challenging enough without chasing ghosts.
turning this lack of familiarity into something that you will use as an advantage.
Yes, the Touch of Inside is a weapon, and like other weapons you have to practice them with a certain "respect". As you get better with your TOI Technique things will start to change and you will have a different experience playing the Game because you will start to understand deflection and how to create zones consciously AND unconsciously.
As you are experiencing now, you will also start hitting the cue ball with much more precision, so you'll need to move over less TOI. Remember, I did this in front of many advanced "sweaters" and NONE of them could tell what I was doing.
If I had told them they would have been able to see it like you can now see many champion players address the cue ball using TOI. It's like seeing anything in life "We only recognize what we're familiar with". If someone doesn't want to see something there's NO WAY they can. Such is life.
This is especially true and now you can tell by how people ask their questions if they are familiar with TOI or not. They can't help it, there's no way to understand what this technique is about unless you experience it.
It's not about intelligence, it's about experience in playing a different type game than you thought pool was before. Remember me saying many times "I don't play better than other players, I play a different game than they do".
I believe all of you that are using TOI will agree that before {practicing TOI} you were missing a lot of balls (or missing position) because you were deflecting the cue ball and didn't quite understand why, only because you lacked this experience you are getting with the Touch of Inside.
Now you're turning this lack of familiarity into something that you will use as an advantage. Other players will see you improve and ask you "what are you doing different?"
The funny thing is they won't believe you if you tell them. Look at all the people that didn't believe me when I first disclosed the secret of the TOI, and now there's many players benefiting, and they will continue to because the game get's easier AND it becomes more fun.
'The Game is the Teacher' CJ Wiley
Yes, the Touch of Inside is a weapon, and like other weapons you have to practice them with a certain "respect". As you get better with your TOI Technique things will start to change and you will have a different experience playing the Game because you will start to understand deflection and how to create zones consciously AND unconsciously.
As you are experiencing now, you will also start hitting the cue ball with much more precision, so you'll need to move over less TOI. Remember, I did this in front of many advanced "sweaters" and NONE of them could tell what I was doing.
If I had told them they would have been able to see it like you can now see many champion players address the cue ball using TOI. It's like seeing anything in life "We only recognize what we're familiar with". If someone doesn't want to see something there's NO WAY they can. Such is life.
This is especially true and now you can tell by how people ask their questions if they are familiar with TOI or not. They can't help it, there's no way to understand what this technique is about unless you experience it.
It's not about intelligence, it's about experience in playing a different type game than you thought pool was before. Remember me saying many times "I don't play better than other players, I play a different game than they do".
I believe all of you that are using TOI will agree that before {practicing TOI} you were missing a lot of balls (or missing position) because you were deflecting the cue ball and didn't quite understand why, only because you lacked this experience you are getting with the Touch of Inside.
Now you're turning this lack of familiarity into something that you will use as an advantage. Other players will see you improve and ask you "what are you doing different?"
The funny thing is they won't believe you if you tell them. Look at all the people that didn't believe me when I first disclosed the secret of the TOI, and now there's many players benefiting, and they will continue to because the game get's easier AND it becomes more fun.
'The Game is the Teacher' CJ Wiley
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3-part pocket system
CJ,
I'll echo the question of an earlier poster. I've watched the video several times and practiced about 10 hours with TOI over the last week. I'm impressed with the system but don't understand something. You state:
1) Aim the cue stick at either the center of the OB or the edge of the OB
2) Aim the OB towards the side of the pocket. The deflection will cause it to go into the center fo the pocket. If you accidentally use too much inside, the resulting deflection will send the OB into the other side of the pocket.
These two seems to be at odds with each other. If I'm aiming center-to-center with TOI, I have no idea if I'm aiming the OB at the center of the pocket or off to one side or the other. I shoot the ball and it goes in. Or it does not and I can see that I used too much or to little inside and adjust on the next attempt. But at no time am I aiming the OB at a part of the pocket.
Help me resolve those two statements.
Thanks,
Jeff
CJ,
I'll echo the question of an earlier poster. I've watched the video several times and practiced about 10 hours with TOI over the last week. I'm impressed with the system but don't understand something. You state:
1) Aim the cue stick at either the center of the OB or the edge of the OB
2) Aim the OB towards the side of the pocket. The deflection will cause it to go into the center fo the pocket. If you accidentally use too much inside, the resulting deflection will send the OB into the other side of the pocket.
These two seems to be at odds with each other. If I'm aiming center-to-center with TOI, I have no idea if I'm aiming the OB at the center of the pocket or off to one side or the other. I shoot the ball and it goes in. Or it does not and I can see that I used too much or to little inside and adjust on the next attempt. But at no time am I aiming the OB at a part of the pocket.
Help me resolve those two statements.
Thanks,
Jeff
Speaking of making adjustments - last night in the APA 8 ball league, I played the last match on an adjacent table (2 matches simultaneously so we could finish early). This table had a red dot cue ball, which I know is lighter, and either I woke up on the work side of the bed yesterday or the light cue ball messed me up. I was missing shots than usual.
I guess the pros don't run into this problem because they always play with cue balls that are equal in weight etc. However, when you hustled, you must have run into this problem. Just curious: how did you adjust and how long did it take you?
The Cue Ball is the Target with the TOI Technique.
I don't "aim" the cue stick at the object ball, the Cue Ball is the target.
I'm ALIGNING the cue ball to either the center or edge of the object ball ABOVE the shot, then getting down, from this point on to LOCK INTO the cue ball as the target. Then the more I move the tip inside, the more of an angle it will create.
Have you watched the TOI DVD, these things are covered in several different ways, however, I've never said I aim my tip at the object ball.
I also don't "aim" the object ball at any part of the pocket, it's a result, not an incentive.
You need to calibrate your shots so they hit the CENTER of the pocket, this will assure you (if you are using TOI) that you aligned to the closest part of the pocket. If you are aligned to the closest part of the pocket and using a touch of inside, the object ball will be deflected slightly into the center.
Ball pocketing is mostly feel, however, you still need a visual reference for your mind to generate what's needed to get this touch or feel for the pocket. Lining up center to center or center to edge ABOVE the shot will give you the visual information needed to create any angle.
I hope this helps you to "resolve those two statements," you're trying to blend some of your past beliefs with the new TOI information and it's going to get undesired results. Watch the DVD again with what I just outlined in mind. The Cue Ball is the Target with the TOI Technique. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I don't "aim" the cue stick at the object ball, the Cue Ball is the target.
I'm ALIGNING the cue ball to either the center or edge of the object ball ABOVE the shot, then getting down, from this point on to LOCK INTO the cue ball as the target. Then the more I move the tip inside, the more of an angle it will create.
Have you watched the TOI DVD, these things are covered in several different ways, however, I've never said I aim my tip at the object ball.
I also don't "aim" the object ball at any part of the pocket, it's a result, not an incentive.
You need to calibrate your shots so they hit the CENTER of the pocket, this will assure you (if you are using TOI) that you aligned to the closest part of the pocket. If you are aligned to the closest part of the pocket and using a touch of inside, the object ball will be deflected slightly into the center.
Ball pocketing is mostly feel, however, you still need a visual reference for your mind to generate what's needed to get this touch or feel for the pocket. Lining up center to center or center to edge ABOVE the shot will give you the visual information needed to create any angle.
I hope this helps you to "resolve those two statements," you're trying to blend some of your past beliefs with the new TOI information and it's going to get undesired results. Watch the DVD again with what I just outlined in mind. The Cue Ball is the Target with the TOI Technique. 'The Game is the Teacher'
TOI and Acceleration are closely related to precision and accuracy
I hope you received the DVD and remember, TOI and Acceleration are closely related to precision and accuracy. Let me know if you have any questions, comments or explanations.
Contact me anytime at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com
Play Well - 'The Game is the Teacher'
I hope you received the DVD and remember, TOI and Acceleration are closely related to precision and accuracy. Let me know if you have any questions, comments or explanations.
Contact me anytime at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com
Play Well - 'The Game is the Teacher'
Wade Crane "Billy Johnson" R.I.P.
Yes, that's for sure and that's the "secret" of some of the all time best breakers of the game.
Wade Crane "Billy Johnson" and I were good friends and he helped me with a number of things with the game, especially his insights about Luther Lassitor.
At the US OPEN I was having trouble with my break and I ask Wade to help me, so we went down to Cue Master and got a back table in the back room.
He told me he would break from the right and cue the ball slightly to the right. Then when he went through the one he would LEAN towards the center of the cue ball with "pressure" rather than "body motion". He was veering the cue ball into the one with tremendous force. I had forgot (I had been away from pool for 8 years) how to do this and his guidance immediately improved my break. I was, in effect creating "margin of error" in my cue ball, and "Inside" gave me the ability to hit as hard as I needed to without the fear of scratching or jumping the table.
I ended up finishing 9th with a 11/3 win over Earl Strickland, and just gave out mentally on the 5th day and played poorly. I'll always have fond memories of my buddy Wade "Billy Johnson" Crane and what he added to me as a person and a player. RIP Wade, many of us miss you my friend.
Yes, that's for sure and that's the "secret" of some of the all time best breakers of the game.
Wade Crane "Billy Johnson" and I were good friends and he helped me with a number of things with the game, especially his insights about Luther Lassitor.
At the US OPEN I was having trouble with my break and I ask Wade to help me, so we went down to Cue Master and got a back table in the back room.
He told me he would break from the right and cue the ball slightly to the right. Then when he went through the one he would LEAN towards the center of the cue ball with "pressure" rather than "body motion". He was veering the cue ball into the one with tremendous force. I had forgot (I had been away from pool for 8 years) how to do this and his guidance immediately improved my break. I was, in effect creating "margin of error" in my cue ball, and "Inside" gave me the ability to hit as hard as I needed to without the fear of scratching or jumping the table.
I ended up finishing 9th with a 11/3 win over Earl Strickland, and just gave out mentally on the 5th day and played poorly. I'll always have fond memories of my buddy Wade "Billy Johnson" Crane and what he added to me as a person and a player. RIP Wade, many of us miss you my friend.
break
I agree with that! I´m not a strong breaker when it comes to speed, can be sometimes when I find the perfect timing and when I try to hit it hard but I usually try to control it. Using a bit of a inside surely helps, my scratching in the side is almost gone, my cb position is great and the spread is good - perfect
.
Even when you miss some the cb bounces "dead" in the rail. I usually place the cb a half a diamond to a full diamond from the head spot and are aiming for the #2/3 ball in the side and the 1 ball down table, takes some adjustment but when you find the perfect cb position and the balls are racked at the same spot I will mostly pot a the #2 or both 2 and 3 every time. Probably just use 60-70% of my power. 10 ball break.
Thanks CJ for all the things you are giving back, I now have many more tools in my "bag" and I enjoy every minute of it - keep e´m coming my friend:wink:!
Chrippa
I agree with that! I´m not a strong breaker when it comes to speed, can be sometimes when I find the perfect timing and when I try to hit it hard but I usually try to control it. Using a bit of a inside surely helps, my scratching in the side is almost gone, my cb position is great and the spread is good - perfect
.Even when you miss some the cb bounces "dead" in the rail. I usually place the cb a half a diamond to a full diamond from the head spot and are aiming for the #2/3 ball in the side and the 1 ball down table, takes some adjustment but when you find the perfect cb position and the balls are racked at the same spot I will mostly pot a the #2 or both 2 and 3 every time. Probably just use 60-70% of my power. 10 ball break.
Thanks CJ for all the things you are giving back, I now have many more tools in my "bag" and I enjoy every minute of it - keep e´m coming my friend:wink:!
Chrippa
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