Old Man Cheated

it's over....Petey's F in L, didn't get away with a sandbagging type of handicap, and the tourney director handled it in, what I consider, a really bad way.

All the rest of the squabbling is just normal handicapped tourney BS. Everyone knows that the best player (highest handicapped player) should win....otherwise whomever beat him was under handicapped! lol. I mean, who here hasn't sent a better player to the 1 loss side or knocked someone out they shouldn't have?

I say lessons should have been learned here....TD - start unknown players out HIGHER (not as a 3 out of 12). Players - quit trying to hide your speed (this one will NEVER completely happen). Replaying a match regardless if handicaps were right or not should probably NEVER happen....the next day, the circumstances were completely different...maybe the player who lost had been drinking when he lost, or was really tired from a really long tournament day at a poolhall. You can't just say....REPLAY IT!! It was at least partially the TDs fault for letting the winner come in so under ranked.

The fact that both sides of this argument are to blame, and yet neither side sees that is what is funny to me! :sorry:
 
CreeDo said:
Can't believe after all the truth is out people still have the nerve to say she's "shady" or in the wrong.

Of COURSE you replay the match. If he was asked if he played in any leagues,
and conveniently 'forgot' he's a BCA 8, he flat out lied to get free games on the wire!
No way to prove it at this point, but if that's how it went down, giving him a second
chance way too generous, he should just be banned, and his opponents move up the ladder.

I don't understand this mindset... "oh well, too bad for the opponent, but the match was played, and the TD was too trusting"
...why is an already played match considered sacred and untouchable?
It's a local handicapped tournament, not the US Open.
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If there is conviction with thinking you were mislead, maybe it was a generous thing to replay. Some say this type of "misleading" is cheating - i.e. read the APA national tournament sandbagger thread.

I agree with JB's post a bit ago about new/unknown players coming in a the bottom. I don't think it's a bad thing to start them in the middle and adjust according to their play - AFTER the tournament, but not during. Get rolled, 2 and out, drop them 1 or 2.

As a "jury member", I know we need to assign culpability so, I'm going to blame obamacare AND the bush administration - equally at fault.
 
sk8ordie said:
Well, after saying my side of the facts and Megans also, it doesnt matter anymore. The damage is done!

Take heart, there may be less damage than you would think. I googled your place and it looks like it is a place for both players and for recreational shooters out for something to eat/drink. The events described here are not a reflection on your establishment. I also think that your defense of the TD, open explanation of your side of the story indicates that you are a responsive and caring operator. I will make it a point to drop by when I am on a golf trip to that area. By the way, the web site shows that both BCA and APA play out of there. I think that is great. Too many locations seem to think they have to choose one or the other.
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The old man is a 4 at best, he was not over ranked slipping in
They've known him for years. Guy is a 5 and Mickey a 6
Whats the old mans ranking Ron?
 
MBACTION said:
Hi, My name is Megan Royal, and I am the tournament director for the tournament that is being talked about in this post at Shore Thing Billiards.

I think that this is the prime example of typical pool player crying, and it is unfortunate that people that read this start off thinking it is truth as if it is coming from the horse's mouth and 100% honest.

The 73 year old man in question?!? He and his son-in-law represented his ability as total novice, during one of my weekly 9 ball tournaments. The exact date was February 1st, 2013. (I keep excellent records of when all players start playing in my tournaments, and why I ranked them the skill level they are) The man and his son-in-law told me that he didn't really play competitively at all, and didn't give me any league handicap for him. Ask any new player that enters Shore Thing Billiards for my tournaments and they will tell you that the first question I ask is "do you play any leagues?"

So, accepting the word of a player that had played in several events that I have played in, and respect (GSBT) I handicapped this unassuming older gentleman at a 3. He didn't advance to the paid out spots of the weekly tournament he participated in, so when he and his son-in-law showed up for my added $1,000 tournament, I entered him as a skill level 3. He lost his first match-up to a player that was a skill level 11 (this format hosted skill levels 1 thru 12). His second match was against another skill level 3. This opponent played in the mini-tournament the night before, and was a player that I knew their ACCURATE handicap from another in-house tournament format that I was familiar with and could equate to mine. He won this match, and it was not a close one. His next round match-up forfeited. So after advancing, (not my boyfriend) Gatlin loses to him. Racing to 7 with 3 games on the wire and the 7 & 8 called, the player in question wins by a big margin (7-3 not 7-5 as reported above). My first reaction was shock. I play in my format as a level 4, and I do not think I could beat Gatlin with that game, so I questioned the skill level of the older gentleman. The owner of STB is a BCA league operator and knew that the man played BCA. After pulling up the last sessions stats, I found out that his BCA handicap out of 10 was an 8. He was ranked in the top 10 of his league.

I NEVER would agree to play a BCA 8 as a 3 in my weekly tournament or our 2 day tournament.

The match in question was the final match of day 1, and by the time I had all the REAL information on the player in question, he had already left to go home. Unfortunately, I had no contact number or email for the gentleman so the only option I had was to inform Gatlin that he was going to replay his match the next day, as he was still in the poolroom.

I informed the player in question that he was going to replay his previous match at a higher skill level the following day, when he arrived. This is my policy, and I am not the only tournament director that plays the match over.

The gentleman said that he accepted his new skill level, and wasn't upset that he was going up in handicap, but he didn't agree with playing the previous match again.

However, the tournament directors' policies are what governs every tournament and mine include replaying matches at a different skill level when I believe the current one is unfair.

Thank you for reading all sides of the story before jumping to the conclusion that STB and myself are categorized with the other shady poolrooms, owners, and directors.

This weekend we paid out more cash that any other tournament with like entry fees I have ever heard of, only taking $5 greens fees, adding $1,000 guaranteed, and auctioning players twice at the full field and the final 24. With both auctions and tournament payout, 1st place stood to take home $2,700.

The winner was 78 years old.

Feel free to private message me, email me, or call me (since my contact information was already shared above) for the name of the gentleman so you all can see his true BCA handicap in person. (hard to deny)

Thank you, again.
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I've never heard of a match being replayed. Is that common place in your event? I've heard of handicaps being change the same night but seldom. It generally happens the next event. Has the old man in question been known to snap off tournaments?

Still on the fence.
 
Price Bogart said:
I've never heard of a match being replayed. Is that common place in your event? I've heard of handicaps being change the same night but seldom. It generally happens the next event. Has the old man in question been known to snap off tournaments?

Still on the fence.
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No he has never even come close to placing
2 and out most the time
Funny thing is they are trying to act like he was way overanked.
They moved him to a 5 and he won 1 game in the replay
 
peteypooldude said:
No he has never even come close to placing
2 and out most the time
Funny thing is they are trying to act like he was way overanked.
They moved him to a 5 and he won 1 game in the replay
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Can you please address the BCA rating of "Old Man"? Was he rated a 8 at any point in time? A yes or no would be a fine answer to this question.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
Can you please address the BCA rating of "Old Man"? Was he rated a 8 at any point in time? A yes or no would be a fine answer to this question.
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He played in the BCA a few YEARS ago. And a partial season then. He can beat a drunk on league night that has no clue
But the truth is he can't play a lick. He didn't lie to Megan. He hasnt played a league in so long noone even thought about it. He does not play league because he cant see to drive after dark and he plays so bad noone gives him an invatation to play.He was already in the losers bracket as a 3. He is a 4 at best.
 
Richardson said:
I don't have a problem with raising a player in a handicapped tournament.

Making someone REPLAY a match they've already won is complete BS. You could at anytime during a tournament move someones handicap up and tell them to replay a match against a friend/boyfriend or even just someone you know and like more than the player you want to move up.

Also if anything, why would they REPLAY it instead of just racing to the new handicaps from where the last score ended? Very shady imo.

{flame shield activated}
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This tournament appears to use both games on the wire and extra money balls in its handicapping. At the new, higher handicap, the ball spot would probably have been different, so if you're going to do anything then starting over probably makes sense.

Personally, I can't comment on which side is more right, or less wrong. But people here seem oddly opposed to ever replaying a match. That doesn't seem like such a calamity to me, though depending on where the brackets stand, it could lead to substantial delays for other matches.
 
peteypooldude said:
He played in the BCA a few YEARS ago. And a partial season then. He can beat a drunk on league night that has no clue
But the truth is he can't play a lick. He didn't lie to Megan. He hasnt played a league in so long noone even thought about it. He does not play league because he cant see to drive after dark and he plays so bad noone gives him an invatation to play.He was already in the losers bracket as a 3. He is a 4 at best.
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It doesn't matter if he played or plays BCA. Old Man didn't tell this to the TD when he should have. I don't really care what your opinion is on what the handicap should be. He was misrepresented to the person running the tourny and she made a choice based on the information that he was actually a BCA 8.

If I were the TD I would have simply kicked him out of the tourny. He was probably lucky to have the option to replay the match.
 
After reading wat I could of all this, I can say only one thing.

It's amazing that in this day and age ANYONE wants to get into the pool hall/tourney biz.

Freaking amazing, and not in a good way. :frown:
 
Ok he was an 8 in BCA 8ball? Which translates to what in 9ball? Either way you cant make him replay one match due to the fact that it is not right to the other people in the tourny he played. You move him up going into his next match or kick him out. The only other problem I see is the fact that other people there that work at the pool room didnt have a problem with his handicap??? If they thought he should be ranked higher why wait until the 2nd day to do so? I hate handicapped tournys as well so this is just my 2cents.
 
eddie0776 said:
Ok he was an 8 in BCA 8ball? Which translates to what in 9ball? Either way you cant make him replay one match due to the fact that it is not right to the other people in the tourny he played. You move him up going into his next match or kick him out. The only other problem I see is the fact that other people there that work at the pool room didnt have a problem with his handicap??? If they thought he should be ranked higher why wait until the 2nd day to do so? I hate handicapped tournys as well so this is just my 2cents.
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It translates to nothing if he didn't play the whole session.

Jeff Livingston
 
I didn't make this thread to hurt the business, I made it because what Megan done was BS. and that's a fact. Brent and Ronnie has known the old man for years on end and although Megan is fairly new what she did was wrong and she should own it instead of trying to make out like the old mans an 8
What would YOU rank the old man at Ron. Does he play my speed or yours... No. All I done was tell what happened between Megan, Gatlin and the old man.
 
chefjeff said:
It translates to nothing if he didn't play the whole session.

Jeff Livingston
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Not only that but most people play those 2 games at different speeds. I play as a 9-10 in BCA 8 ball and can give others that play the same rating as me in my room weight in just about every other game and still win.
 
eddie0776 said:
Ok he was an 8 in BCA 8ball? Which translates to what in 9ball? Either way you cant make him replay one match due to the fact that it is not right to the other people in the tourny he played. You move him up going into his next match or kick him out. The only other problem I see is the fact that other people there that work at the pool room didnt have a problem with his handicap??? If they thought he should be ranked higher why wait until the 2nd day to do so? I hate handicapped tournys as well so this is just my 2cents.
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Everyone there knew the old man. They all know how he plays. Problem came in when he beat Gatlin. Gatlin was drunk
They moved him to a 5 and replayed the match and Gatlin held him to 1 game which is normal
 
This!

cueaddicts said:
After reading wat I could of all this, I can say only one thing.

It's amazing that in this day and age ANYONE wants to get into the pool hall/tourney biz.

Freaking amazing, and not in a good way. :frown:
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I couldn't agree more!!!! Pool was looked on as a bad thing in some ways back in the 60's now it looks worse now than at anytime I can recall. Owners, tournament directors, and players both in leagues and otherwise that seem to have lost any concept of manners or ethics..
 
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