Question for CJ Wiley about TOI

the natural chain reactions with the body-cue tip-cue ball-object ball-and pocket

Chrippa said:
I thank you for sharing your knowledge, as you know:smile:. And I will continue to follow your posts of course, I´m picking up somethings from them all. I´m getting more and more used to use TOI in "my" way, stepping into the shot with the inside in mind ( will mail you about it - with questions) and from there adjust the spin - it´s working better and better - getting the feel of it. I think this is one of the things you can´t see on a vid, the players viewing of the shot before he gets down, if you go down thinking inside (aiming, preparing) and then on the way down you just pivot a bit to adjust to center or outside - it takes so little of adjustment to make the cb have outside spin if you do it this way, if you cross the vertical axis the need to go more outside of the center with parallel aiming is less imo. Same with any sport that you use a ball with - imo... To produce a draw in golf you go from inside and out and the opposite for fade, ping pong, soccer, bowling etc.

Btw CJ - it wasn´t to give you a special treatment, it was for your students :smile:. A place where your posts is posted it´s easier to find, however I cheat and look on the posts you made so I guess it really doesn´t matter:smile:.

Take care you all and have a great evening, day or whatever you have:smile:

Chrippa
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what you learn from playing other sports like golf and tennis. The human body WAS NOT designed to play any of these games/sports, so you have to "go with this natural fact," rather than against it. This means we "real eyes" we are not perfect and therefore need to develop a "margin of error," that will allow us to play perfect, without being perfect.

It's possible to have a very straight stroke, and I was known as one of the "straightest shooters" in the world, HOWEVER, I built in a small allowance for deviation. This is a "margin of error" that I used on the cue ball that would translate to where the cue ball traveled, which effects the object ball path, which naturally effects where the object ball hits the pocket.

Playing great pool is a result of controlling the natural chain reactions with the body, the cue tip, the cue ball, the object ball, and the pocket. This requires the correct speed, shot angle, and cue ball target which is all built in to the 'TOUCH OF INSIDE SYSTEM" of playing pool.

Just a small "miss hit" would cause a miss, so I wanted to cue the ball slightly inside so I would NEVER hit the wrong side of the target.......and the immediate/primary target in pool is the cue ball. If you don't hit the cue ball precisely, you won't consistently placing the object ball in the center of the pocket. 'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com
 
with the TOI Banking System the ability to do these two things becomes consistent

jackpot said:
Banking huh ? Once I get this TOI down I don't figure I will ever be out
of line enough to need to bank it, but you never know. Oh yea , I might
play someone loser breaks and they roll out after they break . So it might
come in handy after all. I'll take it.
jack
Click to expand...

Banks come up in Rotation Games although less than when "Two Shot PushOut" is played. I believe this is by far the best way to play 9 Ball, it makes it MUCH more difficult, strategic and challenging than 10 Ball - it's not even close. The true beauty in 9 Ball is the two way shot and battling for the first shot to run out - this takes much more strategy and shot making that simply breaking, getting a shot and clearing the table. imho

Banks really come up in One Pocket and of course Bank Pool. More than just being able to create the angle to make the bank, controlling the cue ball is essential, and with the TOI Banking System the ability to do these two things becomes very consistent and effective - if you already use the TOUCH OF INSIDE SYSTEM, you will be able to learn it much quicker and it will give you an even better understanding of how the Game connects. 'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com
 
two foul

Two foul is a much better game than one foul. That's the only way we
played years ago. And you also had the spot shot. We would practice
it a lot. I remember years ago as good a player as he was Dick Lane
could not draw his ball hardly at all. He had to play off the rails for
position. If he had a spot shot on the 8 and the 9 was on the end rail
he was in trouble. And playing someone like C.J. was a total nightmare.
Talk about controlling the game. We also played so many ahead not
races and the best player always won. Much better .
jack
 
My experience with TOI.....

I'd like to share the experience my "road partner" and I have had with TOI. I use "road partner" lightly, as we're no Chip and Joey. We're just best friends that have known each other since before kindergarten. We trust each other completely and always share knowledge of the game with each other....or at least I do with him. I honestly feel he does the same with me. Hell, pool is 95% of what we talk about.....and we work together at the same job. Lol. :grin-square: We also play in the same state-wide pool league here in Arkansas. It's known as the APPA (Arkansas Pool Player's Association). We pretty much use 99% of the BCA's rules. It's a singles, handicapped thing.

To be up front, when I first heard of TOI several months ago, I really had ZERO grasp of what it was about, just bits and pieces from the forum. I had heard of CJ Wiley, but really hadn't seen him play much. Definitely never met the guy. In fact, we were both in Tunica last year for the Southern Classic and never bumped into each other. Wish I had. That was long before I knew of TOI. But, I digress........anyway, I tried it one night at the pool hall with miserable results, as I really didn't understand what the heck I was supposed to be doing. I discarded it, like so many other things, and went on my merry way.

About 2-3 months ago, I started reading back up on TOI again, as I felt like I was in a rut and not improving as quickly as I'd like with my overall game (but, I suppose many of us feel that way). As more and more of it began to become clear, I fiddled around with it again, still not sure of what the heck I was doing.

It was around this time that one of my fellow regular pool-playing friends, who also happens to be a BCA Instructor and posts on here, mentioned it after a tournament. The instructor started setting up some shots for my road buddy and I. It was EXTREMELY alien to me for the first 5-10 minutes, as I've really RARELY ever used inside English in the past (and no, TOI isn't truly what most of us think of in regards to inside English, but I just wasn't comfortable with the "inside" of the CB, suffice to say). I was pretty much a center CB or spin-it-with-outside kinda player.

So, as the minutes wore on, I started to dial in how much TOI I need to make a particular shot.....with MY shaft and MY tip (that IS very important, btw).....and I started to pocket more and more shots. After about 15 minutes of really starting to feel it, I began to become excited. BUT, I took it with a grain of salt, because I think a lot of us stumble upon new ways of doing things with great results, only to see it later dissolve like shadows in the night.

BUT, ya know what I did? I took it to my table at home. And I started setting up shots. I started re-reading TOI threads. Heck, I started to ask CJ questions about it. And guess what? He answered! Imagine that. A world champion willing to give an intermediate playin' Joe Blow from Podunk, Arkansas advice on how to be a better player. For free. Could I get in touch with any other pro from another sport and get this kind of feedback on a regular basis, without some prior relationship with that professional? I'd say the answer to that would be a pretty solid, "no".

So, I hit balls in my basement. I started warming up using TOI before tournaments. I started slowly using it IN tournaments. I DID buy the DVD and go thru it a couple of times. (And oh, but was it a small price to pay for what I got out of it). It's already paid for itself. So, I finally I just decided to go "all in" and use it virtually 100% of the time, including the pivot for "outside". Here's what happened:

1. I almost immediately cashed in 3 straight league tournaments. In nearly 2 seasons, I believe I had legitimately cashed in a grand total of 1 league tournament (not counting getting paid as the high "B" player amongst a field of "A" and "Master" players, which is a rule we have in certain tourneys in the APPA).

2. I made it to the finals for the first time, on the winner's side, of 1 particular tournament, only to be double-dipped by my road buddy who....you guessed it....was also using TOI at this point.

3. My buddy went all-in on TOI. And he's seen the dozens upon dozens of books, videos, you name it.....that I buy to try to glean a nugget out of to improve my game. Usually there's always something to be learned from anyone, but there's also a great amount of redundancy in those instances, as well. But, shockingly to me.......fellow TOI'er really, really liked this. A LOT. He's usually pretty stubborn, tho he will give things an initial chance, but generally he reverts back to "his way". Not this time.

4. My buddy proceeds to snap off 3 straight tournaments in one league location. My only losses in a couple of those go-rounds were to him. He has now won 4 out of the last 5 tourneys at that place (including last night).

5. The grumblings about our ratings went from one of us telling the other, "Hey, I THINK I heard someone in the room whisper that we MIGHT be underrated"........to.......opponents saying out loud, "Yeah, they're underrated".....to......opponents sayin to our face, "Dude, there's no effin' way that you're a 5. Seriously.".

No one has completely started screeching (yet) and the season is about over. Our league ratings aren't very "fluid". No computer formulas used here. Just eyes and tournament results. We like to see a "body of work", if you will. If a player is truly improving, they get a chance to cash for a while, until it's just a complete no-brainer that they move up. None of this, "Well, you beat a Master player last week in the 2nd round, so you're moving up a level". Because for any given week or 2, you can be the bug or you can be the windshield.

6. My buddy and I have pledged to sign up as 7's next season. That will be a jump of 2 levels. It might be a bit ambitious, but we want to challenge ourselves. Most players around here (and most places around the country, I gather) like to stay away from a raise in rank, but I think of it as being a reward. I WANT to be a better player. Now, just signing up as a 7 MAY NOT make me a true 7. But, again, I want that kind of pressure, if anything, as a personal experiment to see how my game responds over the long haul of a season. I feel in my heart of hearts that I can prove to myself and others that I'm a player to be taken seriously at that level.

7. Back to TOI.....and this may sound like I'm talking out both sides of my mouth after what you just read above, but.......it takes SOOOOO much pressure off of me AT the table. Yeah, I know I just said I wanted pressure in the above bullet point. Either you'll understand what I mean or you won't. But, I'm the type of guy that always worried about whether I was hitting the exact center of the CB when needed. It bugged the hell outta me. But now, I use my own personal aiming system to line up my body and I step into the shot KNOWING that I'm going to make it. My ball pocketing has really skyrocketed. Of course, so has my confidence level.

8. Oh yeah, somewhere along the last 2 months of this TOI method of play, I put on a new tip. One of fellow forum member, Jeff's DawgDuds. They're fantastic, btw. And I'll be damned if my game didn't go in the tank for about a week. Lol. But, I recognized the variable and recalibrated my TOI by bringing it closer to center CB, and I'm right back on track again, improving every day.

Now, thanks to some talks with CJ, when I warm up before a tourney, I just tell myself that I'm tuning a carburetor. If I'm shooting great, the engine is running good. If I miss, I look at HOW I missed and determine why. If it's an undercut or overcut that resulted in how I was cueing the ball, I tune the TOI carburetor just a bit and rev the engine some more. I no longer miss a handful of shots during warm-ups and think to myself, "Ugh, this is one of those nights I should have stayed home." I tune, tune and tune till I've found where I need to be for the conditions I'm playing under.

I'm not trying to sell anything here. I have no dog in the hunt really. I'm not scared to show other players what I'm doing, as I have the mentality that if they become better players, then I'll have to do the same to keep up with them. BUT, I don't generally offer it up unless someone asks about something about my game. Then I'm open about it.

9. Also, I discovered something this past weekend that relates to a method that CJ has mentioned on here. And BAZINGA, it's the nuts. I'll let him talk about it again, if he wants. But, as a hint, it really helps with accelerating thru the CB. I can't wait to get back to the table to use it some more, as it's only been about a week, but it's a fundamental change in how I strike and move the CB around. It caused me to struggle with position play in last night's tournament, simply because I don't think I've ever had that consistently pure of a stroke in all of my pool playing days. So, I was really getting more bang for the buck than I'm accustomed to. And the method has really, really given me something to focus on when I'm at the table.

In fact, between this method, and one statement that I've gotten from Max Eberle's Zen Pool book.......my stress level is near zero at the table. Do I miss shots occasionally? Hell yes. I'm human. Do I care? Hell yes, I'm a competitor. But, those occasions are becoming less frequent and it's allowing me to deal with instances much better.

10. My off-handed game has gone up with TOI and that above other method. Again, just gives me more focus at the table. I've always been pretty decent with my off-hand, but I can already see the difference.

In the closing of this thesis :grin-square: .....look, if you're the kind of person that's hard-headed, refuses to give credit to anyone else, never likes to take the blame for anything, would rather get kicked in the nuts than apologize for something......we all know the kind of person I'm talking about and those qualities they carry with that chip on their shoulder......well, there's probably no help for you. I've wasted my breath and fingers, but I'm good with that.

However, if you're a person that TRULY wants to be a better pool player, and has an open mind......open up a bit further. Don't be the guy/gal at your pool hall that has stayed at the same, stagnant level for the past 5 years. Push yourself. Get OUT of your comfort zone. Give things an honest, reasonable amount of time to burn in. Ya GOTTA WANT IT. Remember, we pool players are lucky that we've got a game that you can still play at a VERY high level at an advanced age. You've got the opportunity to learn something new every year, every month, every week, every day, every match, every RACK for the rest of your life, if you pay close enough attention.

I'm not an expert, but if anyone wants to ask me a question here or by PM, go for it. At least you'd get a real-world answer from a guy in the trenches that's still learning. And that's certainly no slam on CJ. The guy is layin' it all out there, folks.

A lot of this reminds me of a song by a somewhat famous Texas Country singer/songwriter, Aaron Watson. You can pretty much substitute the word "lovers" for the word "players", "she" for "the game"....."love for the word "play".....and the song will make perfect sense.


"Some Never Will"

With the world in the palm of his hands
Slipping through his fingers just like grains of sand
He don’t know his hourglass is losing time
Till she run out of patience and leaves him far behind

CHORUS

Some lovers gotta learn love the hard way
Before they understand the way they feel
Some lovers are slower than others
Some will come around and some never will

If only she had a dime every time he’s done her wrong
Or for every one wondering why she’s still holding on
She could buy that rodeo and shut it down
Along with every honky tonkin’ bar in town

CHORUS

It may be his fault but she’s still one to blame
For taking him back and playing his foolish games

CHORUS

(Aaron Watson)


I hope some of you are having as much fun at the table as I'm having right now.

Cheers.
 
Fathomblue- that may be the longest post on AZ I have ever read! :)

But it was really good. Thanks for sharing. Glad to see you too are gleaning knowledge to improve your game!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
Thanks for the input and insight! sign0173.gif

Best,
Mike
 
I hate our short attention span society. Fathomblue, that really was a nice post. I wish more people would really take the time and interest to express themselves in a thorough manner as you have.

So far I have not "taken the plunge" so to speak, but I'm definitely hovering lol. I bought CJ's other two earlier DVD's and really enjoyed them. So far the best little nugget for me was the seemingly obvious concept of getting your *hand* on the line of the shot as your stepping into your stance. That is something I used to think about before, but the way he said it and the reminder and reinforcement really helped.

We have this tourney near me that is handicapped in a strange way. You get chips. The highest rating is 9, and they only get 3 chips. A 1 would get 11 chips. Basically you play round robin 1 rack. When you lose, you hand in a chip. To be fair I'm probably the strongest player in the tourney most weeks. But the handicap is BRUTAL. Many of the players can break and run multiple racks...so you damn well better have a good lag! Anyway, I've won the tourney before several times, but I've lost a LOT more than I've won. I didn't play for a couple of months...and oops...I won it the last 4 times in a row!! Progress is still coming. I am scared to put aside my game now, which is still improving, more so lately...in favor of the TOI game. I keep saying "when there are no important tourneys ahead, I'll work on it then". Problem is, when there are no important tourneys ahead, I'm hoping I'm in a box underground lol!

KMRUNOUT
 
Great post

Great post Fathomblue, - thank´s for sharing some visdom of yours:).

I agree, CJ and TOI have a lot in the bag for me also. I can play most of the styles, standing high, low, snooker stance, closed stanced etc because I have tried them out and they all have their merits. I´m of course not that good in TOI yet but I´m getting there more and more, I´m pretty satisfied with my learning curve of it anyway and that´s what´s matters.

I will check my TOI version with CJ in a mail to see if he likes it and maybe can give me a point or two.

Happy TOING everyone:wink:

Chrippa
 
KMRUNOUT said:
I hate our short attention span society. Fathomblue, that really was a nice post. I wish more people would really take the time and interest to express themselves in a thorough manner as you have.

So far I have not "taken the plunge" so to speak, but I'm definitely hovering lol. I bought CJ's other two earlier DVD's and really enjoyed them. So far the best little nugget for me was the seemingly obvious concept of getting your *hand* on the line of the shot as your stepping into your stance. That is something I used to think about before, but the way he said it and the reminder and reinforcement really helped.

We have this tourney near me that is handicapped in a strange way. You get chips. The highest rating is 9, and they only get 3 chips. A 1 would get 11 chips. Basically you play round robin 1 rack. When you lose, you hand in a chip. To be fair I'm probably the strongest player in the tourney most weeks. But the handicap is BRUTAL. Many of the players can break and run multiple racks...so you damn well better have a good lag! Anyway, I've won the tourney before several times, but I've lost a LOT more than I've won. I didn't play for a couple of months...and oops...I won it the last 4 times in a row!! Progress is still coming. I am scared to put aside my game now, which is still improving, more so lately...in favor of the TOI game. I keep saying "when there are no important tourneys ahead, I'll work on it then". Problem is, when there are no important tourneys ahead, I'm hoping I'm in a box underground lol!

KMRUNOUT
Click to expand...

There is a tournament in the Green Room in Charlotte that is that way as well. You have x# of losses. I played it with 2 losses and only won it once.

The way I look at all this is what do you have to lose? I just watched CJ's Ultimate Secrets DVD and there is so much on there that is different from the normal textbook "standard" instruction we get form non-pros. BUT when you really really listen then it dovetails nicely with the standard instruction in may ways.

The thing that blows me away is that CJ was using language and descriptions about the advantage of Aiming Systems LONG before there were any arguments on any forums anywhere about them. You can transcribe his words and they fit into exactly what the aiming system proponents have been saying for the past 14 years.
 
the first book on TOI.

fathomblue said:
I'd like to share the experience my "road partner" and I have had with TOI. I use "road partner" lightly, as we're no Chip and Joey. We're just best friends that have known each other since before kindergarten. We trust each other completely and always share knowledge of the game with each other....or at least I do with him. I honestly feel he does the same with me. Hell, pool is 95% of what we talk about.....and we work together at the same job. Lol. :grin-square: We also play in the same state-wide pool league here in Arkansas. It's known as the APPA (Arkansas Pool Player's Association). We pretty much use 99% of the BCA's rules. It's a singles, handicapped thing.

To be up front, when I first heard of TOI several months ago, I really had ZERO grasp of what it was about, just bits and pieces from the forum. I had heard of CJ Wiley, but really hadn't seen him play much. Definitely never met the guy. In fact, we were both in Tunica last year for the Southern Classic and never bumped into each other. Wish I had. That was long before I knew of TOI. But, I digress........anyway, I tried it one night at the pool hall with miserable results, as I really didn't understand what the heck I was supposed to be doing. I discarded it, like so many other things, and went on my merry way.

About 2-3 months ago, I started reading back up on TOI again, as I felt like I was in a rut and not improving as quickly as I'd like with my overall game (but, I suppose many of us feel that way). As more and more of it began to become clear, I fiddled around with it again, still not sure of what the heck I was doing.

It was around this time that one of my fellow regular pool-playing friends, who also happens to be a BCA Instructor and posts on here, mentioned it after a tournament. The instructor started setting up some shots for my road buddy and I. It was EXTREMELY alien to me for the first 5-10 minutes, as I've really RARELY ever used inside English in the past (and no, TOI isn't truly what most of us think of in regards to inside English, but I just wasn't comfortable with the "inside" of the CB, suffice to say). I was pretty much a center CB or spin-it-with-outside kinda player.

So, as the minutes wore on, I started to dial in how much TOI I need to make a particular shot.....with MY shaft and MY tip (that IS very important, btw).....and I started to pocket more and more shots. After about 15 minutes of really starting to feel it, I began to become excited. BUT, I took it with a grain of salt, because I think a lot of us stumble upon new ways of doing things with great results, only to see it later dissolve like shadows in the night.

BUT, ya know what I did? I took it to my table at home. And I started setting up shots. I started re-reading TOI threads. Heck, I started to ask CJ questions about it. And guess what? He answered! Imagine that. A world champion willing to give an intermediate playin' Joe Blow from Podunk, Arkansas advice on how to be a better player. For free. Could I get in touch with any other pro from another sport and get this kind of feedback on a regular basis, without some prior relationship with that professional? I'd say the answer to that would be a pretty solid, "no".

So, I hit balls in my basement. I started warming up using TOI before tournaments. I started slowly using it IN tournaments. I DID buy the DVD and go thru it a couple of times. (And oh, but was it a small price to pay for what I got out of it). It's already paid for itself. So, I finally I just decided to go "all in" and use it virtually 100% of the time, including the pivot for "outside". Here's what happened:

1. I almost immediately cashed in 3 straight league tournaments. In nearly 2 seasons, I believe I had legitimately cashed in a grand total of 1 league tournament (not counting getting paid as the high "B" player amongst a field of "A" and "Master" players, which is a rule we have in certain tourneys in the APPA).

2. I made it to the finals for the first time, on the winner's side, of 1 particular tournament, only to be double-dipped by my road buddy who....you guessed it....was also using TOI at this point.

3. My buddy went all-in on TOI. And he's seen the dozens upon dozens of books, videos, you name it.....that I buy to try to glean a nugget out of to improve my game. Usually there's always something to be learned from anyone, but there's also a great amount of redundancy in those instances, as well. But, shockingly to me.......fellow TOI'er really, really liked this. A LOT. He's usually pretty stubborn, tho he will give things an initial chance, but generally he reverts back to "his way". Not this time.

4. My buddy proceeds to snap off 3 straight tournaments in one league location. My only losses in a couple of those go-rounds were to him. He has now won 4 out of the last 5 tourneys at that place (including last night).

5. The grumblings about our ratings went from one of us telling the other, "Hey, I THINK I heard someone in the room whisper that we MIGHT be underrated"........to.......opponents saying out loud, "Yeah, they're underrated".....to......opponents sayin to our face, "Dude, there's no effin' way that you're a 5. Seriously.".

No one has completely started screeching (yet) and the season is about over. Our league ratings aren't very "fluid". No computer formulas used here. Just eyes and tournament results. We like to see a "body of work", if you will. If a player is truly improving, they get a chance to cash for a while, until it's just a complete no-brainer that they move up. None of this, "Well, you beat a Master player last week in the 2nd round, so you're moving up a level". Because for any given week or 2, you can be the bug or you can be the windshield.

6. My buddy and I have pledged to sign up as 7's next season. That will be a jump of 2 levels. It might be a bit ambitious, but we want to challenge ourselves. Most players around here (and most places around the country, I gather) like to stay away from a raise in rank, but I think of it as being a reward. I WANT to be a better player. Now, just signing up as a 7 MAY NOT make me a true 7. But, again, I want that kind of pressure, if anything, as a personal experiment to see how my game responds over the long haul of a season. I feel in my heart of hearts that I can prove to myself and others that I'm a player to be taken seriously at that level.

7. Back to TOI.....and this may sound like I'm talking out both sides of my mouth after what you just read above, but.......it takes SOOOOO much pressure off of me AT the table. Yeah, I know I just said I wanted pressure in the above bullet point. Either you'll understand what I mean or you won't. But, I'm the type of guy that always worried about whether I was hitting the exact center of the CB when needed. It bugged the hell outta me. But now, I use my own personal aiming system to line up my body and I step into the shot KNOWING that I'm going to make it. My ball pocketing has really skyrocketed. Of course, so has my confidence level.

8. Oh yeah, somewhere along the last 2 months of this TOI method of play, I put on a new tip. One of fellow forum member, Jeff's DawgDuds. They're fantastic, btw. And I'll be damned if my game didn't go in the tank for about a week. Lol. But, I recognized the variable and recalibrated my TOI by bringing it closer to center CB, and I'm right back on track again, improving every day.

Now, thanks to some talks with CJ, when I warm up before a tourney, I just tell myself that I'm tuning a carburetor. If I'm shooting great, the engine is running good. If I miss, I look at HOW I missed and determine why. If it's an undercut or overcut that resulted in how I was cueing the ball, I tune the TOI carburetor just a bit and rev the engine some more. I no longer miss a handful of shots during warm-ups and think to myself, "Ugh, this is one of those nights I should have stayed home." I tune, tune and tune till I've found where I need to be for the conditions I'm playing under.

I'm not trying to sell anything here. I have no dog in the hunt really. I'm not scared to show other players what I'm doing, as I have the mentality that if they become better players, then I'll have to do the same to keep up with them. BUT, I don't generally offer it up unless someone asks about something about my game. Then I'm open about it.

9. Also, I discovered something this past weekend that relates to a method that CJ has mentioned on here. And BAZINGA, it's the nuts. I'll let him talk about it again, if he wants. But, as a hint, it really helps with accelerating thru the CB. I can't wait to get back to the table to use it some more, as it's only been about a week, but it's a fundamental change in how I strike and move the CB around. It caused me to struggle with position play in last night's tournament, simply because I don't think I've ever had that consistently pure of a stroke in all of my pool playing days. So, I was really getting more bang for the buck than I'm accustomed to. And the method has really, really given me something to focus on when I'm at the table.

In fact, between this method, and one statement that I've gotten from Max Eberle's Zen Pool book.......my stress level is near zero at the table. Do I miss shots occasionally? Hell yes. I'm human. Do I care? Hell yes, I'm a competitor. But, those occasions are becoming less frequent and it's allowing me to deal with instances much better.

10. My off-handed game has gone up with TOI and that above other method. Again, just gives me more focus at the table. I've always been pretty decent with my off-hand, but I can already see the difference.

In the closing of this thesis :grin-square: .....look, if you're the kind of person that's hard-headed, refuses to give credit to anyone else, never likes to take the blame for anything, would rather get kicked in the nuts than apologize for something......we all know the kind of person I'm talking about and those qualities they carry with that chip on their shoulder......well, there's probably no help for you. I've wasted my breath and fingers, but I'm good with that.

However, if you're a person that TRULY wants to be a better pool player, and has an open mind......open up a bit further. Don't be the guy/gal at your pool hall that has stayed at the same, stagnant level for the past 5 years. Push yourself. Get OUT of your comfort zone. Give things an honest, reasonable amount of time to burn in. Ya GOTTA WANT IT. Remember, we pool players are lucky that we've got a game that you can still play at a VERY high level at an advanced age. You've got the opportunity to learn something new every year, every month, every week, every day, every match, every RACK for the rest of your life, if you pay close enough attention.

I'm not an expert, but if anyone wants to ask me a question here or by PM, go for it. At least you'd get a real-world answer from a guy in the trenches that's still learning. And that's certainly no slam on CJ. The guy is layin' it all out there, folks.

A lot of this reminds me of a song by a somewhat famous Texas Country singer/songwriter, Aaron Watson. You can pretty much substitute the word "lovers" for the word "players", "she" for "the game"....."love for the word "play".....and the song will make perfect sense.


"Some Never Will"

With the world in the palm of his hands
Slipping through his fingers just like grains of sand
He don’t know his hourglass is losing time
Till she run out of patience and leaves him far behind

CHORUS

Some lovers gotta learn love the hard way
Before they understand the way they feel
Some lovers are slower than others
Some will come around and some never will

If only she had a dime every time he’s done her wrong
Or for every one wondering why she’s still holding on
She could buy that rodeo and shut it down
Along with every honky tonkin’ bar in town

CHORUS

It may be his fault but she’s still one to blame
For taking him back and playing his foolish games

CHORUS

(Aaron Watson)


I hope some of you are having as much fun at the table as I'm having right now.

Cheers.
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This is unofficially the first book on TOI. :thumbup: ALOHA, {Continue to} Play Well My Friends
 
the rules are terrible for Professionals

jackpot said:
Two foul is a much better game than one foul. That's the only way we
played years ago. And you also had the spot shot. We would practice
it a lot. I remember years ago as good a player as he was Dick Lane
could not draw his ball hardly at all. He had to play off the rails for
position. If he had a spot shot on the 8 and the 9 was on the end rail
he was in trouble. And playing someone like C.J. was a total nightmare.
Talk about controlling the game. We also played so many ahead not
races and the best player always won. Much better .
jack
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When people say that 9 Ball isn't a great game it makes me cringe. The problem isn't the Game, it's the rules that were just designed to speed up play and equalize the fields so the promoters could get more players. I don't hold it against them, they did the right thing for the business of running semi pro events, however, the rules are terrible for Professionals.

Two Shot Push Out has so much more strategy and true character of a pool game. Buddy Hall used to say he liked to "wrestle" for the first shot and that art as been lost, and needs to be found again. 10 Ball is just as bad, it's not how many balls are on the table it's about seeing the strategic side, and bringing back the "integrity" of the Game. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
CJ Wiley said:
When people say that 9 Ball isn't a great game it makes me cringe. The problem isn't the Game, it's the rules that were just designed to speed up play and equalize the fields so the promoters could get more players. I don't hold it against them, they did the right thing for the business of running semi pro events, however, the rules are terrible for Professionals.

Two Shot Push Out has so much more strategy and true character of a pool game. Buddy Hall used to say he liked to "wrestle" for the first shot and that art as been lost, and needs to be found again. 10 Ball is just as bad, it's not how many balls are on the table it's about seeing the strategic side, and bringing back the "integrity" of the Game. 'The Game is the Teacher'
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Now that statement, I agree with 100%. But, it's funny too, because a lot of amateurs say the current rules are too easy, yet they have never run even a 5 pack. For pros, yes, 2 shot should be the way to go, but for amateurs, it's not broke, their thinking about it is.
 
CJ Wiley said:
When I was the #1 Ranked Player in the World I didn't practice more than an hour or two a day. I didn't have to because when we use TOI it doesn't take near the skill and practice to spin AND deflect (throw) the balls in.

www.cjwiley.com
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For what it's worth, Mike Sigel told me he never practiced when he was on top of the pool world.

Can you describe Mike Sigel's style of play? He seems to hit the ball firmly most of the time, but I have never really noticed what english he is using. BTW, Mike told me he uses english on every shot. Thanks.
 
vagabond said:
Inside English comes handy on very tough shots but it has some limitations. If the tables are brand new with brand new Simonis cloth like in Pro tournaments,using inside English is a road to disaster. Effren avoided using inside English for the first two days and did not mind it from the third day onwards.

I understand that Buddy Hall disliked the Inside English irrespective of the age of the cloth or the brand of the cloth.:cool:
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Yes, a lot of pros hate using inside english. They stay away from it like a plague.

Keith McCready, on the other hand, has said on this forum that he loves inside english and that his mastery of this helped him become the player he is.
 
TOI makes the pockets play almost twice as big.

I do this with the TOI, it's like cuing low, but not drawing the ball, just deflecting it to create the angle, you see many players deflect shots they think they're hitting in the center, however, they don't realize it and it results in misses that are confusing....it's best to intentionally "work" the cue ball, like a golfer "works" a Draw/Fade or a tennis player "works" topspin, or bowler "works" his Hook....to create a ZONE to the pocket....it all works the same in principal, only pool has a lower margin of error, so it's vitally important.

This works because you aim at the part of the pocket closest to the ball and then you have the whole pocket to "veer" it in to....it's like a bowler does, just with deflection rather than spin....I use deflection only because the cue ball is on a surface with friction, the spin has to deflect first, then spin back so it's more difficult to do this system, although it's done by pros, just takes 7 hours a day of practice, I don't have that much time to devote to play well. TOI makes the pockets play almost twice as big.

'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com
 
If you don't intentionally deflect the cue ball it's impossible to do what I'm doing

whitewolf said:
Yes, a lot of pros hate using inside english. They stay away from it like a plague.

Keith McCready, on the other hand, has said on this forum that he loves inside english and that his mastery of this helped him become the player he is.
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Yes, I stay away from Inside English as well, however, after playing with the TOI for awhile players will lose their fear of it.

The TOI Cue Ball isn't a spinning one, any more than most people hit center. I'm not sure it it would be possible to hit a cue ball that doesn't spin, I would think they all spin, I'm just controlling the path of the cue ball. If you don't intentionally deflect the cue ball it's impossible to do what I am doing.
'The Inside Game is the Teacher'
 
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