CJ Wiley Runs 29 balls in 1P using TOI

ThePoliteSniper said:
It's funny how every pro or semi-pro who is trying to help me get better is also trying to sell me something.
Click to expand...

That kind of seems to be the case in any game or sport. I don't see anything wrong with it. While helping people out might be satisfying and/or rewarding, it's still work. I don't want to work for free, and I don't suspect anyone else wants to either.

I haven't read many of CJ's posts, but he's a true veteran in this game who has played it at the highest level. It wouldn't hurt anyone to read what he has to say about the game. If someone thinks that what he's saying is wrong or untrue, just don't listen to it. It's as simple as that.
 
CreeDo said:
Even if money is their primary goal, what would be the incentive to sell bad or incorrect info?
If you're going to try to sell DVDs, there's no reason to put bad/fake info in them, that would hurt your reputation and bottom line.

I'm not a TOI believer, but I don't fault CJ for hawking DVDs, it's not like there's buckets of cash raining down on pool players, especially when tournaments are a coin flip to break even.

I can certainly understand why incessant pushing of the products will wear thin quickly. And I don't agree with the tendency to attribute TOI to other players. But I think CJ honestly believes he's found something that helped his game and wants to share it.
Click to expand...


Nothing wrong with making money. I don't blame anyone specifically. If people are buying his TOI DVDs, CJ is doing something right. But as a pool player you should be able to make an informed decision. Every time I visit AZB there seems to be a new system or pro-secret on DVD. Are they all worth buying?
I'm scratching my head on this one. Here is someone trying to sell me the idea, that I should hit the cueball with a touch of inside spin to achieve more consistency. And yet every other instructor I speak to tells me it's best to hit the cueball in the center and only apply sidespin if it's needed for positional play. That's also what I observe when watching professional pool and snooker players. So already I'm raising my eyebrow. The common response is usually that I'm closed minded and opposed to new ideas. Yes, I've closed my mind to ideas that don't make sense. Don't make me pull the snooker card. If you want to improve your shotmaking abilitiy and consistency, get your cue action straight and hit the cueball in the center. But that doesn't sound so fancy and requires actual, boring, mundane work. It costs time an determination instead of money.

It also doesn't help that this forum gets littered with commercials. CJ even sent me one via pm with a link to his 29 balls video and a link to his website, even though we don't know each other - at all! I think he is sincere and that he really believes in the benefits of TOI (that belief alone can give a player the edge). But that's not the point. I just think everybody should be careful when someone is trying to sell them something with a big PR campaign attached. It's critical thinking 101.

CreeDo said:
Do you think Dr. Dave is wrong for charging for VEPS?
Click to expand...

No. But I also think it's not worth buying.
 
ThePoliteSniper said:
Don't make me pull the snooker card. [...]
It also doesn't help that this forum gets littered with commercials. CJ even sent me one via pm with a link to his 29 balls video and a link to his website, even though we don't know each other - at all! I think he is sincere and that he really believes in the benefits of TOI (that belief alone can give a player the edge). But that's not the point. I just think everybody should be careful when someone is trying to sell them something with a big PR campaign attached. It's critical thinking 101.
Click to expand...

It's ok, I pull the snooker card all the time, I can see the logic.
I got the PM too, it probably got a lot of people scrambling to look for AZ's Do Not Call Registry. CJ, if you're reading, I think probably private messages are rubbing people the wrong way. If you put a post in the main forum it will get lots of eyeballs.

No. But I also think [VEPS] is not worth buying.
Click to expand...

Surprising... I'd think Dave's stuff would appeal to a very rational, skeptical type. It strikes me as a goldmine of info that's been tested and presented in a scientific way, and I'd feel confident recommending it to almost anyone because I know it's free of any gimmicks or superstitious nonsense. Maybe it's all stuff you already know, but still... not worth buying?
 
CJ, for the headcam thing can you use one of those training cue balls so we can see exactly where you strike the cue ball.

Thanks
 
If you followed the TOI from the beginning posts on here, you can see he took a situational shot and ran with it and turned it into a system because everyone was in ahhhh. You can see it just by how he is changing the info up on it weekly in the past. As soon as you give a legit question, he tosses the troll card at you and a ban or warning is followed from Az. He is protected on here or he would have been banned ten times over, the way he acts. JoeyA makes a thread called Funny Stuff and it gets moved to the aiming section yet Cj threads stay here always? lol :)
 
Last edited:
Neil said:
John, you aren't getting what I stated. Again, you are reading into it what you want to. You are making it sound like I and others don't want the pros posting here. Nothing could be farther from truth. But, what we do expect from them is the truth, not BS and putdowns and insults. I'm all for knowledge about the game, how you think I'm not is beyond me.?? How much "flack" do Eberle, Ekkes, or other pros on here get? NONE Stan does because of a controversial system that some don't seem to grasp. And, none of the others constantly resort to insults when someone disagrees with them. Get your blinders off, and quit thinking that some don't want him here. We do, we just want the truth, not exaggerations and bs. That doesn't help anyone.
Click to expand...

Your idea of truth Neil. Ekkes isn't a pro, Max is low key and his instruction is textbook.

Just because you have one idea of how the game should be played and someone else has another one doesn't make yours right and theirs wrong.

ThePoliteSniper said:
It's funny how every pro or semi-pro who is trying to help me get better is also trying to sell me something.
Click to expand...

Everyone has to eat. You don't have to buy it or read it. If people just watch and read the FREE stuff CJ has put up they can learn a lot.

PocketSpeed11 said:
Perfectly said. If Wiley wasn't trying to hawk something then JBCASES would be 100% correct.

The acting in this video is atrocious. Anybody who is quick to defend on here is obviously starstruck or is in the pool biz and has $$$$ in mind.
Click to expand...

Um right. Which acting? Is this a movie or a demonstration? I saw a demonstration of pool prowess along with a walkthrough in real time of what CJ was thinking on each shot as he went into the shot.

SakuJack said:
Eh? You do sell your DVDs, correct?
Click to expand...

One would hope so for the amount of time he invests on AZB. But it's not just selling the DVDs. CJ answers EVERY question about the method in detail for free whether you have bought the DVD or not. And not only that we have gotten a lot of good stories about his professional career, his road player days, the time he started a tour and promoted it and his time running a big pool room.

Jimmy M. said:
That kind of seems to be the case in any game or sport. I don't see anything wrong with it. While helping people out might be satisfying and/or rewarding, it's still work. I don't want to work for free, and I don't suspect anyone else wants to either.

I haven't read many of CJ's posts, but he's a true veteran in this game who has played it at the highest level. It wouldn't hurt anyone to read what he has to say about the game. If someone thinks that what he's saying is wrong or untrue, just don't listen to it. It's as simple as that.
Click to expand...

100% agree. You're a great player yourself. In the old days would you have ever thought to question a top-notcher who was trying to help you out?

full splice said:
If you followed the TOI from the beginning posts on here, you can see he took a situational shot and ran with it and turned it into a system because everyone was in ahhhh. You can see it just by how he is changing the info up on it weekly in the past. As soon as you give a legit question, he tosses the troll card at you and a ban or warning is followed from Az. He is protected on here or he would have been banned ten times over, the way he acts. JoeyA makes a thread called Funny Stuff and it gets moved to the aiming section yet Cj threads stay here always? lol :)
Click to expand...

Because it's not just about aiming. And if CJ is protected then he should be protected as long as he stays civil. I wish more pros and industry people were protected on here and then there would be more of them willing to participate. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to get your information straight from the people involved in making the products you see in the market? Or your playing tips straight from the people at the highest level of the game?

Would it not be great if you could toss out a question to Efren (my dream) like "Mr. Reyes, what exactly do you do on this shot here, youtube link?" and he would answer you right away?

Well this is what you have with CJ right now and if the price of that is that he gets to toss in a little line about his instructional material then it's a small price to pay, especially when it essentially costs to readers nothing.
 
full splice said:
If you followed the TOI from the beginning posts on here, you can see he took a situational shot and ran with it and turned it into a system because everyone was in ahhhh. You can see it just by how he is changing the info up on it weekly in the past. As soon as you give a legit question, he tosses the troll card at you and a ban or warning is followed from Az. He is protected on here or he would have been banned ten times over, the way he acts. JoeyA makes a thread called Funny Stuff and it gets moved to the aiming section yet Cj threads stay here always? lol :)
Click to expand...

It's interesting that you know so much forum history regarding CJ since you just joined 3-13-13.
 
Why all the hate in this thread? I watched the video and didn't see any reason to knock it. Unless, of course, somebody's PO'ed because of jealousy of the man's talent. What gives?

He's marketing a skill. Just like every other person on the planet's trying to do in a thousand different venues. If you don't agree with his instruction, don't try to save the rest of us. We'll be taking what we need and figuring it out despite all the other keyboard aficianados. I know he's lying through his teeth and going to ruin all our games. If that's what happens, then that's our choice. Don't disguise your posting with well intentioned criticisms that are nothing more than veiled jabs and trolling shots.

If CJ and a TOI has given you wet undies...great! If you're stalking these threads, posting under multiple aliases, dissecting every post for ammo...get over it and go away. Don't post because of your personal dislike for another poster. anim_21.gif anim_17.gif

Best,
Mike
 
Fast Lenny said:
I find it funny that we have so many haters on here. We are lucky to have CJ sharing his knowledge with us. I just think some people are jealous because you could implant all the knowledge out there on the game and they will never be any better then they are now or they are legends in their own mind already. It is like what Sarah said to Eddie in The Hustler, "He'll break your heart, your guts, and for the same reason. He hates you because of what you are, cause of what you have and he hasn't.".

P.S. Thanks CJ for sharing your information.
Click to expand...


lol. First JS, now you -- is "jealousy" the new default accusation de jour? (Used to be "hater" and "naysayer.")

Lenny, while everyone admires the play of the pros, few *if any* would trade their life for theirs. I wouldn't trade anything I have to play like anyone, including Willie Mosconi. I'm sure that neither you or Neil would either.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out what's wrong with some of the stuff being shilled here. Some of it is top-shelf BS :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
Last edited:
lfigueroa said:
lol. First JS, now you -- is "jealousy" the new default accusation de jour? (Used to be "hater" and "naysayer.")

Lenny, while everyone admires the play of the pros, few *if any* would trade their life for theirs. I wouldn't trade anything I have to play like anyone, including Willie Mosconi. I'm sure that neither you or Neil would either.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out what's wrong with some of the stuff being shilled here. Some of it is top-shelf BS :-)

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Except that you are not qualified to point out what's wrong with most of the things you label as BS.

As the line goes you are a super nobody in Atlantic City. Have you ever run 29 balls in one pocket in a row?

Sometimes you just have to sit back and listen Lou. But when you are used to being a huge voice in a the forum I guess it's really hard.

When I go the leather working forums I sit back and listen because there are bonafide champions there who are gracious enough to tell us amateur leather workers tips and techniques that they have learned over a lifetime of working leather.

No one there would presume to tell Peter Main or Chan Geer or Ron Ross that what they were peddling is BS. They all sell books and patterns and tools as well. But they lead by example and show off their work and explain how they did it. CJ is doing no less here and if you and a few others would not jump in often to attempt to demean and discredit him then there wouldn't even be as much conversation over it.

It's absolutely horrible what you are doing and what you have done all these years. You have sucked so much energy out of the room with your negativity that it's practically a miracle that guys with so much more to offer than you to have stuck around despite being constantly talked down to.

I suppose on some level in all this there is no yin without the yang. You have served a useful purpose even though your intention was to destroy. Although it's been highly distasteful and mean-spirited your negativity was partially responsible for people like Stan and CJ to tighten up and work on even better ways to present their methods. So I suppose I should be grateful to you for that and see the silver lining such as it is.
 
lfigueroa said:
lol. First JS, now you -- is "jealousy" the new default accusation de jour? (Used to be "hater" and "naysayer.")

Lenny, while everyone admires the play of the pros, few *if any* would trade their life for theirs. I wouldn't trade anything I have to play like anyone, including Willie Mosconi. I'm sure that neither you or Neil would either.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out what's wrong with some of the stuff being shilled here. Some of it is top-shelf BS :-)

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it's not technically BS if you believe it yourself.
It works for him even though he does not realize what he is actually doing during the stroke. With the cue swerving left then right then up in the air how is it possible to apply a touch of anything, do it all your life and it works that's how.
No disrespect to CJ he is a fine player of that there is no doubt, but I dare say if any other peons here posted similar techniques they would definitely be questioned without repercussions.
 
full splice said:
If you followed the TOI from the beginning posts on here, you can see he took a situational shot and ran with it and turned it into a system because everyone was in ahhhh. You can see it just by how he is changing the info up on it weekly in the past. As soon as you give a legit question, he tosses the troll card at you and a ban or warning is followed from Az. He is protected on here or he would have been banned ten times over, the way he acts. JoeyA makes a thread called Funny Stuff and it gets moved to the aiming section yet Cj threads stay here always? lol :)
Click to expand...

Hiya Champ! Long time, no see. ;) :D
 
I"d hate for anyone to think a pool player was making a profit off of.......hard work

CreeDo said:
It's ok, I pull the snooker card all the time, I can see the logic.
I got the PM too, it probably got a lot of people scrambling to look for AZ's Do Not Call Registry. CJ, if you're reading, I think probably private messages are rubbing people the wrong way. If you put a post in the main forum it will get lots of eyeballs.



Surprising... I'd think Dave's stuff would appeal to a very rational, skeptical type. It strikes me as a goldmine of info that's been tested and presented in a scientific way, and I'd feel confident recommending it to almost anyone because I know it's free of any gimmicks or superstitious nonsense. Maybe it's all stuff you already know, but still... not worth buying?
Click to expand...

yeah, for the first time in 7 months I sent some players PMs that were actively participating in the TOI threads. If I offended anyone I apologize, it seemed pretty harmless to do once a year or so. If anyone wants my special videos in the future I guess you should send me an email at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com

It's kinda ironic that some people think I'm doing this for money and then when I send free information that's criticized too. That's ok, I completely understand, and if anyone wants to pay for everyone's postage I'll send all the DVD's out for free (in the United States) from now on. I"d hate for anyone to think a pool player was making a profit off of - I can't even say it......hard.....honest....work. ;) 'The Inside Game is the Teacher'
 
I decided to "skip school" and go to the pool room

JB Cases said:
Your idea of truth Neil. Ekkes isn't a pro, Max is low key and his instruction is textbook.

Just because you have one idea of how the game should be played and someone else has another one doesn't make yours right and theirs wrong.



Everyone has to eat. You don't have to buy it or read it. If people just watch and read the FREE stuff CJ has put up they can learn a lot.



Um right. Which acting? Is this a movie or a demonstration? I saw a demonstration of pool prowess along with a walkthrough in real time of what CJ was thinking on each shot as he went into the shot.



One would hope so for the amount of time he invests on AZB. But it's not just selling the DVDs. CJ answers EVERY question about the method in detail for free whether you have bought the DVD or not. And not only that we have gotten a lot of good stories about his professional career, his road player days, the time he started a tour and promoted it and his time running a big pool room.



100% agree. You're a great player yourself. In the old days would you have ever thought to question a top-notcher who was trying to help you out?



Because it's not just about aiming. And if CJ is protected then he should be protected as long as he stays civil. I wish more pros and industry people were protected on here and then there would be more of them willing to participate. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to get your information straight from the people involved in making the products you see in the market? Or your playing tips straight from the people at the highest level of the game?

Would it not be great if you could toss out a question to Efren (my dream) like "Mr. Reyes, what exactly do you do on this shot here, youtube link?" and he would answer you right away?

Well this is what you have with CJ right now and if the price of that is that he gets to toss in a little line about his instructional material then it's a small price to pay, especially when it essentially costs to readers nothing.
Click to expand...

Looks like everyone's been having a good time today during recess, I decided to "skip school" and go to the pool room and try to corrupt people and get them "TOIing". :groucho: Go to Class - 'The Inside Game is the Teacher www.cjwiley.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top