Hey CJ,
This was a great video of Efren playing the ghost! Thanks for sharing it with us.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
CJ Wiley Runs 29 balls in 1P using TOI
- Thread starter One Pocket John
- Start date
Hey CJ,
This was a great video of Efren playing the ghost! Thanks for sharing it with us.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
?
Well I can agree with that
, but I did pick up some things, like "skid" in Arabic .
On the other hand, what did you think? Wasn´t it a good view of stuff in general?
Chrippa
Btw - not anything against the language, I just don´t get it.....
I've tried to watch this before, it's much better with no sound.
Well I can agree with that
, but I did pick up some things, like "skid" in Arabic .On the other hand, what did you think? Wasn´t it a good view of stuff in general?
Chrippa
Btw - not anything against the language, I just don´t get it....
.
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I agree CJ. Even Efren in the 90s played the same way.
First 3 racks- a touch of outside 3 times out of 32 shots. (made 10 out of turn twice and spotted it). Inside 3 times, one of those times a lot of inside, and, while he got position, he chose the tougher route to go. Outside would have been a cinch for position, he went the tougher way. The rest of the shots were no english, just draw and follow.
Now that is observation. I also watched it and watched a match from 1994. Efren played mostly very close to center ball from my observation with very few shots I would call spin shots.
So also did Tony Ellin, Efren's opponent in that 94 match.
Neil: I disagree with only three shots with inside...most of the "no english" shots had significant stun, indicating to me that he was very close to slight inside. I think the three inside shots you're referring to are pretty obvious inside english shots, not "TOI", because the cueball takes a steep angle off the cushion (it still has a lot of post collision spin). I think it's virtually impossible to distinguish between "TOI" and center cueball on a 2 dimensional computer screen (unless you're looking down the barrel you can't affirmatively judge the post contact angle)--you'd have to be there in three dimensions and really looking for it to really be sure, and because he's shooting so soft on a lot of them it's really hard to differentiate. Throughout the whole video, I see a lot of dead cueballs, though. He did actually use quite a bit of outside, too, mainly on his blind cuts to get the cueball to flatten out and go straight across to the opposite rail and on shots where he had to snatch it back running off the rail to get position. I don't think anyone can argue Efren doesn't use the whole CB when he has to. I will say that despite conventional wisdom, Efren spins the CB alot less than say, Earl...yet he has the reputation of spinning a CB every shot (and he clearly doesn't).
Over the past 6 months of being an adherant to TOI, I realized that I used to use it quite a bit of stun on my CB and keep it from running off the collision out of position. This was always a sub-conscious "feel" aspect I had when I was playing tight position play, it never occurred to me that I could use it as a default alignment. I think a LOT of top players use it more often than we think, so it's easy in retrospect to come in and claim they're using TOI. Although I admit I think they probably use it as a tool to keep/get in line or cheat a pocket more than as a comprehensive system. Until I have the privilege of getting a 12 hour "lesson" from Efren, I'll never know how "consciously" he uses the inside of the CB for control. As far as Efren using it for pocketing, who knows? I will say this, watching for it in top players' matches has made TOI easier for me to adopt...I'm looking for and finding a whole new dimension to the game I really hadn't considered.
It's interesting you picked up on his strange routes, too...I wonder if that's just a comfort level thing for him, or maybe he's preferring a consistent address of the cueball, opting for a tighter pathway to keep from having to adjust every other shot? What do you think?
This video proves that Efren has the best touch in history...it's absolutely beautiful to watch and I swear he's as tough as he ever was!! :smile:
It's just a comfort thing. Sometimes I will take the tougher route just to get a feel for what the table will allow, sometimes just to let my stroke out a little. Sometimes just to add a little spice to the game, a touch of uncertainty to stay on edge from the boredom that can come from doing the same thing over and over.
One thing for sure, Efren sure does a lot of slow rolling. :grin-square:
On the same YouTube page as cj running 29, there was a clip of a snooker player making a break of around 120 IN ONE POCKET! Now THAT was impressive.
Meanwhile, still nothing on the snooker forum about cj's techniques. I wonder why?
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Meanwhile, still nothing on the snooker forum about cj's techniques. I wonder why?
Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk
Be patient Thaiger
Be patient Thaiger, there is one champion player using them, maybe Doug Gordon will share that at some point.
Be patient Thaiger, there is one champion player using them, maybe Doug Gordon will share that at some point.
Bruce, cj. Bruce.
Why wait for Doug? Why not start a thread in the coaching forum yourself?
I can only think of one reason why you wouldn't...
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it works very effectively and I will prove it anytime, on any day with any body.
I played Efren many times (in the 90s) and also played Bustemante when he first came to the United States. You can ask anyone that saw us play in Chicago, it was a "slug fest" and we ran MANY racks on tight, funky equipment.
The reason know one could tell I was using the Touch of Inside is because it's difficult to see, however, you can see it if you understand how the cue ball reacts after contact.
In the video I ran the 29 straight balls in one pocket I used it every time EXCEPT when I called it out loud that I was using outside, which was only two times that I remember, even on the straight in shot I had to use TOI to slightly cheat the pocket when I drew the ball back for the 8 Ball.
It's a powerful tool, the Touch of Inside.....maybe you have to have "eyes that can see" to recognize it. All I know is it works very effectively and I will prove it anytime, on any day with any body. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I played Efren many times (in the 90s) and also played Bustemante when he first came to the United States. You can ask anyone that saw us play in Chicago, it was a "slug fest" and we ran MANY racks on tight, funky equipment.
The reason know one could tell I was using the Touch of Inside is because it's difficult to see, however, you can see it if you understand how the cue ball reacts after contact.
In the video I ran the 29 straight balls in one pocket I used it every time EXCEPT when I called it out loud that I was using outside, which was only two times that I remember, even on the straight in shot I had to use TOI to slightly cheat the pocket when I drew the ball back for the 8 Ball.
It's a powerful tool, the Touch of Inside.....maybe you have to have "eyes that can see" to recognize it.
All I know is it works very effectively and I will prove it anytime, on any day with any body. 'The Game is the Teacher'
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I'm not psychic, however I can tell every time, it's that obvious.
Your observations are accurate.
The difference that you will start to see at some point is that Efren and I don't look at the table to show us what shot to shoot. We make the table conform to our shot, then look for the table to show us how to use our shot.
There's a significant advantage to understanding what I just said. Some of you will know if you've been using the TOI Technique for long enough. There's a way to shoot that shot 90% of the time if you know what to look for, it's a different way to play shape.
This is why it's difficult for many people to know what Efren's going to do.....for me it's simple because I already know what shot he prefers, I'm not psychic, however I can tell every time, it's that obvious. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Your observations are accurate.
The difference that you will start to see at some point is that Efren and I don't look at the table to show us what shot to shoot. We make the table conform to our shot, then look for the table to show us how to use our shot.
There's a significant advantage to understanding what I just said. Some of you will know if you've been using the TOI Technique for long enough. There's a way to shoot that shot 90% of the time if you know what to look for, it's a different way to play shape.
This is why it's difficult for many people to know what Efren's going to do.....for me it's simple because I already know what shot he prefers, I'm not psychic, however I can tell every time, it's that obvious. 'The Game is the Teacher'
It could be live streamed...
A podcast is nothing but a term for a video or series of videos that is made available on the Internet for downloading to a portable media player, computer, phone, etc.
It could be really beneficial if you can "live stream" one session about TOI explaining some basic concepts (like on ustream.com) where users can ask you questions about TOI on public chat. Or you can pick various questions asked on this forum about TOI, make a video and post it up on your website. Like Justin does before every TAR match.
A podcast is nothing but a term for a video or series of videos that is made available on the Internet for downloading to a portable media player, computer, phone, etc.
It could be really beneficial if you can "live stream" one session about TOI explaining some basic concepts (like on ustream.com) where users can ask you questions about TOI on public chat. Or you can pick various questions asked on this forum about TOI, make a video and post it up on your website. Like Justin does before every TAR match.
"Beating the 15 Ball Rotation Ghost"
I'm downloading my new video on "Beating the Rotation Ghost" now and will have it up later tonight. This is something that's been ask for regularly - run all 15 balls in rotation and talk out loud about how I'm lining up and how I'm using TOI. This is the first one I've done of this nature, and I also answer many of the latest questions from azbilliards about the TOUCH OF INSIDE System of play.
I intend to do this LIVE WORLDWIDE in a Streaming Format very soon and this, {as was the 29 ball run in one pocket} is how I'm practicing, so any constructive input is welcome. I want to positively effect your Game and this is the way many of you have requested the information, and it's FREE.
The 'TOUCH OF INSIDE' is not for everyone, if you can't relate to the TOI style of play, please put it on a shelf with your other pool related stuff for later reference. The Game just wants you to enjoy playing and the style you choose is entirely your choice. 'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com
I'm downloading my new video on "Beating the Rotation Ghost" now and will have it up later tonight. This is something that's been ask for regularly - run all 15 balls in rotation and talk out loud about how I'm lining up and how I'm using TOI. This is the first one I've done of this nature, and I also answer many of the latest questions from azbilliards about the TOUCH OF INSIDE System of play.
I intend to do this LIVE WORLDWIDE in a Streaming Format very soon and this, {as was the 29 ball run in one pocket} is how I'm practicing, so any constructive input is welcome. I want to positively effect your Game and this is the way many of you have requested the information, and it's FREE.
The 'TOUCH OF INSIDE' is not for everyone, if you can't relate to the TOI style of play, please put it on a shelf with your other pool related stuff for later reference. The Game just wants you to enjoy playing and the style you choose is entirely your choice. 'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com
I didn't say he uses a lot of outside english, i said he uses outside english a lot. Or in other words, often. I won't argue about your personal knowledge of efren, obviously you know him better than I do. But I do know how a cue ball reacts after contact when a certain type of english is used and efren, from what i've seen, loves that outside english cut shot to bring the ball back to middle table or to hit the ball a little fuller and throw it in just a bit. Around 5:35 of the video is one example.
Some more times a little outside is used:
6:10
9:30
9:52(close but seems like a little outside to go two rails instead of one)
14:05
17:07
17:25
24:43
Of anything, he uses speed and different variations of draw and stun more than anything by far. If he is favoring inside or outside on most of those it is very hard to tell and most likely doesn't make a whole lot of difference in the shots outcome anyway. All i was commenting on earlier is that efren seems to like using outside for position using the rails quite a bit.
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I appreciate the encouragement, only time will tell when
I have heard that a lot lately, and it's part of the TV show I'm planning, however, a book will certainly be in my future. The "road stories" seem to be something everyone likes even if they don't play pool at all.
I appreciate the encouragement, only time will tell when I'll have the time, my plate is pretty full.
Play Well Xianmacx :thumbup:
I have heard that a lot lately, and it's part of the TV show I'm planning, however, a book will certainly be in my future. The "road stories" seem to be something everyone likes even if they don't play pool at all.
I appreciate the encouragement, only time will tell when I'll have the time, my plate is pretty full.
Play Well Xianmacx :thumbup:
I find it funny that we have so many haters on here. We are lucky to have CJ sharing his knowledge with us. I just think some people are jealous because you could implant all the knowledge out there on the game and they will never be any better then they are now or they are legends in their own mind already. It is like what Sarah said to Eddie in The Hustler, "He'll break your heart, your guts, and for the same reason. He hates you because of what you are, cause of what you have and he hasn't.".
P.S. Thanks CJ for sharing your information.
P.S. Thanks CJ for sharing your information.