Shot clocks at The Southern CLassic!!!

[AtLarge]

If I was the TD or promoter I would explain that added money is not a charity. To play for it one must be willing to do what is required. Playing on a stream table when chosen is one of those requirements.

Simple.

Right, it could be a condition for entering the event.

Since the last few matches of each event are all streamed, can you imagine someone refusing at that stage?

Of course, a counterargument is that if you are going to make money off of my playing, I should get paid for it. My understanding is that Accu-Stats eventually compensates the players based on the sales of the DVD's.

 

[fathomblue]

If I was the TD or promoter I would explain that added money is not a charity. To play for it one must be willing to do what is required. Playing on a stream table when chosen is one of those requirements.

Simple.

Are said players compensated for the DVD's that are sold with their likeness/image on it? I know I didn't sign a waiver for my image to be used in Tunica. I signed up to play in a tournament. Then again, no one would want to watch me play anyway. Lol. :boring2:

I'm tossing out questions here, simply because I can see a huge situation developing out of this, if a few players decide to step up and say what's on their mind.

I heard and was directly told some very interesting statements by top players when it came to streaming matches while I was in Tunica. Things I had never thought about in the past.

 

[fathomblue]

Right, it could be a condition for entering the event.

Since the last few matches of each event are all streamed, can you imagine someone refusing at that stage?

Of course, a counterargument is that if you are going to make money off of my playing, I should get paid for it. My understanding is that Accu-Stats eventually compensates the players based on the sales of the DVD's.

:shrug: :shrug:

 

[lfigueroa]

After the use of the shot clocks at Derby City for the 10ball this year.. Greg Sullivan and Pat Fleming have agreed that shot clocks will be in use at the Southern Classic on every arena match... Banks, One-Pocket, 9ball and of course the 10ball on the 10foot for the semi and final matches....

This will keep the arena table on schedule with the draws so there should be no dead time where a round is missed because of a match going too long and missing the window for getting a new match into the arena....

This is great news for the PPV viewers and the spectators attending the event.....

I'm looking forward to The Southern Classic having a rhythm that has been lacking at DCC and last years Southern....

With all of that said.. I don't have information on what length of shot clock will be used in each event....

I was wondering what the AZ population thought would be adequate lengths for a shot clock in each discipline? I know several posters will say "NO SHOT CLOCK" but I have to paraphrase Bob Jewett "If you cannot execute in a timely manner, You need to be on the practice table and not in a match"....

Chris

45 seconds for 1pocket and even that is a long time to stare at a pool table. Most experienced 1pocket players come to the table knowing what they're going to do or figure it out in short order. I know there are some guys that like to stare and stare and stare but I think 45 seconds should be plenty of time with maybe like one 30 second extension per game.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Scaramouche]

Snooker's Premier League

"a 25 second shot clock with each player having two 25-second extensions in each frame"

Suggest pool reduce these times proportionate to the reduced table area (less travel time required).

 

[3andstop]

I agree with a chess like clock for one pocket. Have the tournament organizers choose what they think is the longest they would like a single game of 1P to go and divide that by 2. This will be the total time usable during a game by each player. You run out of time? You foul, your opponent gets BIH behind the line, and 1 or 2 min is added to your clock.
I think this is a good solution because it allows for slower play at the beginning of a rack when it is needed and then you can fire faster at the end with 2-3 balls on the table.

IMO there is no fairer way to do it. I've been preaching this for a long time with the exact idea of adding a minute or two after the BIH foul. I would add the 3rd chess clock violation is loss of game.

BTW ... 40 second shot clock for 1 hole is a bit short on time IMO. 60 to 90 seconds is more like it although far more time would be wasted doing it with a set time for each shot as opposed to using the overall chess clock idea. The chess clock is far more practical and saves time in the long run.

 

[Cracktherack]

30 seconds is fine for all games. The longer you stare at a rack, the balls still don't move. If you're slow and can't figure out what to do, you're probably going to lose anyway.

 

[The Renfro]

45 seconds for 1pocket and even that is a long time to stare at a pool table. Most experienced 1pocket players come to the table knowing what they're going to do or figure it out in short order. I know there are some guys that like to stare and stare and stare but I think 45 seconds should be plenty of time with maybe like one 30 second extension per game.

Lou Figueroa

Thanks for the input Lou.. I know you actually travel to play in some one-pocket events so this is a valuable opinion....

Chris

 

[lfigueroa]

Right, it could be a condition for entering the event.

Since the last few matches of each event are all streamed, can you imagine someone refusing at that stage?

Of course, a counterargument is that if you are going to make money off of my playing, I should get paid for it. My understanding is that Accu-Stats eventually compensates the players based on the sales of the DVD's.

This is what they do at the big CSI Open events when you sign up -- you consent to be on the TAR camera, if called on. They even tell you they can slap a CSI patch on your nice silk shirt.

To be honest, it was kinda cool

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Thanks for the input Lou.. I know you actually travel to play in some one-pocket events so this is a valuable opinion....

Chris

Here's how I came to that, even though I know other 1pocket players might disagree.

Many months ago I started to play a guy on a regular basis who was really more a 9ball player but who wanted to learn 1pocket. After several sessions it really became a drag to play him because he was taking so much time each shot. So I started to watch the clock each time he shot to see if I was out of line.

He was averaging a minute 10 to a minute 30 *every shot* and I felt that was way too long.

So then I end up playing one of my other regular match ups -- an older black fellow that I regularly tussle with and did the same thing: watched the clock. And he was taking about the same amount of time I was: about 20 to 30 seconds a shot, maybe on a tough one, 40-50 seconds. And one day the slower guy watches us play and says to me afterwards, "After watching you guys I can see I'm taking too long for my shots." And he went on to explain that, when he got to the table he kinda knew what he wanted to do, but was just spending additional time looking at every other possible option.

45 seconds is plenty, IMO, if you want to keep things moving along

Lou Figueroa

 

[Banks]

I've got two stories about the clock from our regional event last week.

In the first one, a friend of mine was playing. In his opponent's previous match, a ref was told that the opponent was slow as can be. The ref shrugged and moved along. That pushed my friend's match start back almost an hour. The same ref came along during the match - a tough match with both players shooting at a reasonable pace, but playing many safeties(kept getting bad spreads). At one point, the ref told them that he expects them to be 3 racks further into the match in 10 minutes! One was a run-out, so they were able to get 2 racks further. The ref threatened that if they did not speed up the pace, that he would add a game to each of their scores. If that had happened, my friend would have lost, as his opponent got to the hill first. The ref kept stopping by and giving them grief or just lurking. Neither player was happy about it and even as a spectator I thought it was way out of line.

The second time came during a team match I was having later. My opponent in the second round of games took 2 minutes after the break to take his first shot. He had played my teammate nearly as slowly during the first round. After he took another minute for his second shot, I called a ref over. He said that there were only two refs available and that he couldn't stay to watch, only if the set was breaking the 'benchmark' for the team play. I was a bit annoyed to say the least, that the ref would tell me that while the opponent was still at the table and walk away. If they're not going to enforce rules, why have them? After he rattled a routine shot, which took another full minute to decide on, I stepped up and looked over the table real good. I even looked at things that didn't matter for my simple out. I took a swig of beer, chalked up a second time and looked the table over again. Another swig of beer, another chalking and an approach. One more swig to finish off my beer, one more chalking and then ran my balls within about 2 minutes. My opponent appeared to get the hint, as his next 3 games were shot at a much more acceptable speed.

 

[gregcantrall]

I like the idea

I think this is an absolutely great idea for One Pocket --- and maybe all the other games also. There may be a few variations of this.

One of these may be that when you run out of your alloted minutes, there is no foul but you have to shoot every 30 seconds. Then if you do not shoot in 30 seconds it is a foul.

Just a thought ---- What do you think???

I think it would be good for all games. 30 seconds would be too long IMHO. After their alloted time is gone I would give 10 seconds to shoot.

 

[One Pocket John]

30 seconds should be enough time. With maybe one extension per rack.

John

 

[vapoolplayer]

.................

 

[Cory in DC]

I think this is an absolutely great idea for One Pocket --- and maybe all the other games also. There may be a few variations of this.

One of these may be that when you run out of your alloted minutes, there is no foul but you have to shoot every 30 seconds. Then if you do not shoot in 30 seconds it is a foul.

Just a thought ---- What do you think???

Great idea. Much better than other approaches.

30 seconds per shot is ok, but if I average 10 seconds and need to think for 2 minutes on a shot here and there, I should be able to--that's a lot better than averaging 30 seconds. That logic argues for a chess clock. BUT, players will get ahead on time and balls and then start playing gratuitous safeties to run out the clock. That could actually increase match lengths, or at least reduce the benefits of the chess clock. Your approach would make this a bad strategy.

Things should go at a nice pace if each player gets 10 or 15 minutes and then a 20 or 30 second clock when time expires. The trick would be to implement it: you would need a chess clock and a shot clock. Maybe an iPhone/Android app would do the trick?

Another idea that would only use chess clocks would be to have the time apply to matches, not games. So if it's a race to 3, each player starts with a bank of 20 minutes and then gets an extra 10 minutes every time a rack is broken (so a hill-hill match gives more total time to both players than a 3-0 match). This would create some quick play in the early games as players try to bank up time in case they need it.

One way or another, a shot clock is a great idea. A single slow player can really screw up the brackets and make a tournament drag for everyone, especially if it's double elimination.

Cory

 

[iusedtoberich]

9 ball, 10 ball:

60 sec first time to table after break
30 sec each subsequent shot
1 ext per player per game


9 ball banks:
60 sec first time to table after break
30 sec each subsequent shot
2 ext per player per game


1 Pocket:
60 sec first time to table after break
45 sec each subsequent shot
3 ext per player per game

 

[iusedtoberich]

A chess clock won't work. Its too complicated, unless the tv crew keeps time. The players will mess it up.

Yes, I'm speaking from experience. I played with a chess clock before. Trust me, pool players are not smart enough to hit the button at the end of each of their innings.

 

[onepocketron]

I am definitely a huge fan of the shot clock. Slow play sucks no matter who is playing. I watched a couple of pro matches in Vegas in the last couple of years that were so brutally slow, the director had to put them on the shot clock. I think all tourneys should have a shot clock, but NOT for just one table, but for the entire field so it is the same for everyone.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I'm pretty satisfied, as a matter of fact I've never once even ask Pat Fleming......

Right, it could be a condition for entering the event.

Since the last few matches of each event are all streamed, can you imagine someone refusing at that stage?

Of course, a counterargument is that if you are going to make money off of my playing, I should get paid for it. My understanding is that Accu-Stats eventually compensates the players based on the sales of the DVD's.

The match I had with Steve Mizerak was the best selling video of the year and there's been of various matches sold that I was in. I got one check back in 1993/94 for a nominal amount and haven't received one since.

I'm pretty satisfied, as a matter of fact I've not once even ask for a check, or to be paid by Pat Fleming. I like Pat, and maybe one day he'll treat me to dinner or something nice, that's completely up to him.

I'm just reporting the facts of my personal experience, like it, or "lump it". I'm not sure if other players get paid or not, I only know about my own experience related to this matter. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[oldzilla]

Integrity is the word !

The match I had with Steve Mizerak was the best selling video of the year and there's been of various matches sold that I was in. I got one check back in 1993/94 for a nominal amount and haven't received one since.

I'm pretty satisfied, as a matter of fact I've not once even ask for a check, or to be paid by Pat Fleming. I like Pat, and maybe one day he'll treat me to dinner or something nice, that's completely up to him.

I'm just reporting the facts of my personal experience, like it, or "lump it". I'm not sure if other players get paid or not, I only know about my own experience related to this matter. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Nice of you to confirm that Pat is an honest and generous person.

I know that Pat Fleming (Accu-Stats) always tries to be fair with players and fans.

He has always loved the game and pool needs more guys like him !