Jay, how was Earls gambling pool game, like i said on here before Strickland came To Baltimore in the 80s and played Tom Vanover on Vanovers table where Vanover worked, they only played 50 a game for over 20 hours and broke even, I know Vanover wasnt near the player that Strickland was but he did hang with him on his own table, so iam thinking that Earls gambling game wasnt his best game!
Who Has Played CJ??
- Thread starter rayjay
- Start date
Jay, how was Earls gambling pool game, like i said on here before Strickland came To Baltimore in the 80s and played Tom Vanover on Vanovers table where Vanover worked, they only played 50 a game for over 20 hours and broke even, I know Vanover wasnt near the player that Strickland was but he did hang with him on his own table, so iam thinking that Earls gambling game wasnt his best game!
I have also been reminded that his big tourney wins were in the midst of one of the bigger schisms of the men's tour with several staying with Don Mackey's group.
He was the top banker in the world for several years. I think Gary would agree that Eddie Taylor, was, in his prime, the best ever in the world. Maybe Bugs at his top second and Gary third, Brumback closing in behind fourth, and so on and so on and so on..........
Sherm
i think the list of those that wanted some was pretty short, beginning and ending with Buddy until the mid eighties
and then along came the Pinoys
Those videos of Bugs and Gary playing banks is just awesom!
I love the way Gary jerks his cue after making a bank at 3000 miles an hour, Bugs was awesom to, But i loved Garys style!
the Pool Industry as a whole can get a rapid upswing if they concentration of the put
There were a LOT of political unease going on in those days and I ended up starting my own Professional Tour in 96 with Earl Stickland and George Breedlove as co-founders. We did many ESPN tournaments and the first tournament was the infamous Million Dollar Challenge where Earl ran 11 racks in a row to win the challenge, which had a legal battle attached to it for hte next 3 years. This was no ordinary "legal battler" and I not only paid Earl $50,000 of my own money for winning, but also $300,000 in legal bills the following 2.5 years until the lawsuit was settled and Earl DID get his money.
I was not a dedicated "tournament player" in the sense of an Earl Strickland, Johnny Archer, Buddy Hall, or Nick Varner. My forte was gambling and playing "heads up" matches for "lucrative amounts".
Although, in 96 I was named 'Player of the Year' by Pool and Billiards Digest with several wins including the Million Dollar Challenge (Earl Stickland finals) and the ESPN World Open (Oliver Ortmann finals, Earl semis), ESPN World Mixed Doubles (with Loree Jon) and the ESPN Battle of the Sexes Champion (finals Vivian Villarreal ). I also made it to the ESPN Championship Finals the next two years (three straight years) and received a reported (by ESPN) 600 International Hours on ESPN (winning 22 out of 24 matches). I also produced several indipendent pool tournaments and worked with Jay Helfert, Allen Hopkins, Joe Rogan, Jimmy "Pretty Boy" Mataya and other TV personalities.
Even though I was one of the top 10 tournament players for many years I still wouldn't put myself at the same level as Johnny Archer, Earl Stickland, Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, Jimmy Rempe, etc. I wasn't willing to practice (at the sacrifice of my businesses) the amount of hours and play in the number of events to reach their level, just like what Shane Vanboening is doing in this time period.
I got into the the pool room, and night club/bar business (in 1990), and made a career out of it. My main talent is still in business management and bar/pool room operations. I've just recently grown interested in the Professional Pool world because I see such untapped potential. I believe with the right formula the Pool Industry as a whole can get a rapid upswing if they concentration on putting the Pro's in the spotlight (strategically) to showcase the sport/game. 'The Game.....needs a positive boost'
There were a LOT of political unease going on in those days and I ended up starting my own Professional Tour in 96 with Earl Stickland and George Breedlove as co-founders. We did many ESPN tournaments and the first tournament was the infamous Million Dollar Challenge where Earl ran 11 racks in a row to win the challenge, which had a legal battle attached to it for hte next 3 years. This was no ordinary "legal battler" and I not only paid Earl $50,000 of my own money for winning, but also $300,000 in legal bills the following 2.5 years until the lawsuit was settled and Earl DID get his money.
I was not a dedicated "tournament player" in the sense of an Earl Strickland, Johnny Archer, Buddy Hall, or Nick Varner. My forte was gambling and playing "heads up" matches for "lucrative amounts".
Although, in 96 I was named 'Player of the Year' by Pool and Billiards Digest with several wins including the Million Dollar Challenge (Earl Stickland finals) and the ESPN World Open (Oliver Ortmann finals, Earl semis), ESPN World Mixed Doubles (with Loree Jon) and the ESPN Battle of the Sexes Champion (finals Vivian Villarreal ). I also made it to the ESPN Championship Finals the next two years (three straight years) and received a reported (by ESPN) 600 International Hours on ESPN (winning 22 out of 24 matches). I also produced several indipendent pool tournaments and worked with Jay Helfert, Allen Hopkins, Joe Rogan, Jimmy "Pretty Boy" Mataya and other TV personalities.
Even though I was one of the top 10 tournament players for many years I still wouldn't put myself at the same level as Johnny Archer, Earl Stickland, Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, Jimmy Rempe, etc. I wasn't willing to practice (at the sacrifice of my businesses) the amount of hours and play in the number of events to reach their level, just like what Shane Vanboening is doing in this time period.
I got into the the pool room, and night club/bar business (in 1990), and made a career out of it. My main talent is still in business management and bar/pool room operations. I've just recently grown interested in the Professional Pool world because I see such untapped potential. I believe with the right formula the Pool Industry as a whole can get a rapid upswing if they concentration on putting the Pro's in the spotlight (strategically) to showcase the sport/game. 'The Game.....needs a positive boost'
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During his time CJ was a great player, feared by other pros both in the tournaments and also in money games. When he was with PBT ( Pro Billiard Tour ) his ranking fluctuated between 5th to 7th. Kim davenport, Rafael martinez, CJ have exchanged their places 5th to 7th. He never won a pro event while he was with PBT. During a pro event at Holiday INN in Worcestor, MA he revolted against the PBT leadership and started his own profession pool organiztaion and started a tour. He was harsh and condemned Mat Braun ( promoter of challenge of champions) in worcestor during that revolt.
It was in the CJ`s pro organization tour Earl won the Million dollars. He won that ESPN world championship organized by his professional pool organization. I forgot the name of the organization. It was something like " PCA ". He was a great shooter.
In one of the Tour stops in 1993 when he was still with PBT they played on Connoly tables. They were nasty ponys to ride. Most of the pros slow rolled the balls to pocket them. But CJ, George Breedlove, Archer, Strickland are the only players who could pot a long shot using very high velocity. Those connoly tables became a real test for the shooting ability of the pro players. CJ was slamming and raming them. He was such a sharp shooter and also he was a fast player like Earl.
I am not going to talk about his money games and I will let him talk about those after hours stuff. Ask him how he crushed cruz from Miami.
My respect to CJ`s game. .
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Pathetic Shark
Banned
You're preaching to the choir on this forum. The challenge is to interest non AZB members. What are your plans and when will they be implemented?
The bonus ball fiasco is a salutary warning here.
Glad to see you are at least getting the respect you deserve from a few of the big egos on this forum. I have a garnered a great deal of information about forum culture by speaking to those in the know in the pool world. I am so happy that you have chosen to weather the storm and stick it out. After a while, one realizes who's the real deal.
When it comes to AzBilliards, the forum is the teacher.
the "teenage years"
Was I with sAJ? I don't remember that, just vaguely remember that trip, I think it was the one I got "jarred" at one of the bars there.
Kinard did beat me in his pool room in 84 (I was 18)....I hocked a Balabushka AND a Zamboti for $800. with the intentions of coming back in two weeks. I was in St. Louis getting ready to come down to Memphis and they got hit with a snow storm. Foolishly I decided to write of the cues and now they'r'e probably worth quite a bit.....the "teenage years" sometimes aren't the smartest ones.
CJ was a teenager when he came through this area in 84 or so and he gave a local champion, JK (KINARD) Mays the 8 on a gaffe table. CJ couldn't get there, but, he was in good (Buddy Hall) company.
was prolly prior to mastering toi
iirc he was with SAJ and an Ivory Jointed Balabushka was part of the score
disclaimer...i didn't witness the multi day match as it occured during one of my lengthy pool/action sabbaticals, however, it is from a VERY reliable source
Was I with sAJ? I don't remember that, just vaguely remember that trip, I think it was the one I got "jarred" at one of the bars there.
Kinard did beat me in his pool room in 84 (I was 18)....I hocked a Balabushka AND a Zamboti for $800. with the intentions of coming back in two weeks. I was in St. Louis getting ready to come down to Memphis and they got hit with a snow storm. Foolishly I decided to write of the cues and now they'r'e probably worth quite a bit.....the "teenage years" sometimes aren't the smartest ones.
Nice post. I realize you may have been one of the top turny players of all time but for others to slot you in there without the hardware takes away from the ones who have those accomplishments it's a long tough grind and often the reward is little when the sacrifices are many
Bobby Jones may very well have been the best golfer ever but he left the game to pursue his career it leads to a great debate
I think Bobby would take the same high road you did if asked who was the best. I commend you for that
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You know, the rest of actually knew this already and were trying our best to give clarity for your benefit since you asked. Nobody is saying CJ Wiley was "one of the top tourney players of all time." He was ONE of the top tourney players for a brief period.
Freddie
+1 Bobby Jones is actually a pretty good analogy...I'm from Texas and for a while, CJ Wiley was sort of Corey Deuel before Corey Deuel; a young phenom with unreal skill that scared everybody, until he decided to go do something else. It looks like he's got a lot left in the tank, should he decide to come back and make a splash...or he could go design golf courses!
I knew this along there is a big difference between shoulda coulda woulda when talking about potential vs accomplishments he is not the first talented player to pursue another career and he won't be the last given the money in pool , so it's important to give the players who have stuck with it their due
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I talked to Lynn Smith of Texarkana, Arkansas this past weekend. We were swapping stories and pool knowledge after-hours at Beezer's in Russellville, AR (Ok. Lynn was doing all the talking....).
Anyway, he was listing off all of the people that he had played throughout his career and there were a few name players that he had beaten.....some he had played well against, but still lost.......and a few that he said ran him over.
When I asked if he played CJ Wiley, he said, "Yeah, I played him just a couple of years ago........aaaaaand I didn't like it very well."
And I'm sure CJ was pretty rusty at that point, as this wasn't in his heyday.
Anyway, he was listing off all of the people that he had played throughout his career and there were a few name players that he had beaten.....some he had played well against, but still lost.......and a few that he said ran him over.
When I asked if he played CJ Wiley, he said, "Yeah, I played him just a couple of years ago........aaaaaand I didn't like it very well."
And I'm sure CJ was pretty rusty at that point, as this wasn't in his heyday.
False statement. Nice thing about pool...you can compete for many years as long as you stay healthy. Ummmm...didn't a 50 something year old man just beat the best player in the world in a race to 25 last week?
False statement. Nice thing about pool...you can compete for many years as long as you stay healthy. Ummmm...didn't a 50 something year old man just beat the best player in the world in a race to 25 last week?
Sorry you disagree. There are only two questions to ask:
1. Is CJ Wiley in his prime?
2. When was he in his prime?
Can he get back in championship form? Given his physical shape and that he's still fairly young in a sport that's not taxing on the body, he's got a great shot.
Is he there today? Not yet.
Please keep this all real. I'm not insulting CJ in any way. Everybody can just step off and stop insinuating. I'm a fan for crying out loud.
Freddie <~~~ got other real important things on my mind
Banks
Banned
False statement. Nice thing about pool...you can compete for many years as long as you stay healthy. Ummmm...didn't a 50 something year old man just beat the best player in the world in a race to 25 last week?
One of the stronger players in our area is about 80 and cashed in Johnston City. He can still get it done once in a while.
There is no "prime"...it is a figure of speech that gets thrown around all the time. You are either playing good, or you are not. You are either capable, or not. How do you know if he is "past his prime?" A statement like that leads somebody to the conclusion he wont ever play good again. Have you seen him play recently? Just because maybe he hasn't won a tournament that you know of or something?
BTW, I just read your post and not any others and replied. Sorry if you are catching heat for it.
None of your post is making any sense to me. Surely you understand what "in your prime means." If you don't, we have no discussions.
I certainly understand the term. Others have said "in his day," or "in his heyday," or "when he was in peak form." That's all the same.
To say that my statement "Past his prime" insinuates or implies in any way that "he won't ever play good again," is ridiculous. Completely uncalled for and reallly I don't know why I have to answer to it... but I do because someone else will believe that somehow I'm insulting him. Give me a break.
I'm way past my prime. But I can still have sex.
Freddie <~~~ I just won't be making movies anymore, but I guess if someone has enough money...