Are their "naturals" regarding aiming?

[Neil]

Hi,

I'll explain. (I actually agreed with you in a similar topic (Bustamante) in the Main Forum regarding "feel") I've been reading about one system vs. another here. Seems to be the hottest, most debated topic on AZ. I'm mostly wondering if these systems are truly something that top Pro's really use to aim today and that you can be taught these aiming systems via secret, elite academies or a respective Pro? I can understand being taught proper stance, grip, bridges, stroke, body alignment, cue ball control, speed, banking and kicking, but aiming?

This is how I've helped others (including my Dad just within the past month) who have never played pool regarding aiming. You can either hit a ball dead straight forward or up to 90 degrees in either direction. Aim for the left to make the object ball go right. Aim right to make it go left. All else is up to you...too much or too little to pocket it?

Thanks,

Taemin

You can play by the "guess" system, ( well, I guess it's about here that I have to hit) a lot of people do. Some actually get quite good at it, but few do.

Or, you can aim in a way that says hit HERE. And you KNOW that is the correct spot to make the ball. No guesswork involved.

Your choice.

 

[Neil]

I think most people are "naturals" at aiming. If you go to a real pool hall and ask people if they use an aiming system, most will probably look at you funny.

Here on AZ, its a hotly debated topic. I'm approaching 20 yrs of my life wasted in the pool halls, and don't recall more than maybe 3 conversations with anyone about aiming, or hearing others have a conversation about aiming in all those years.

So, to you, any new information is useless information. If everyones not doing it, it's worthless. hmmm.....

 

[Neil]

No, I really don't. I'm not trying to be an azz, but I believe each one of us has an inherent natural ability when it comes to athleticism. Within 5 years of picking up a cue, every player I know has reached a plateau. Sure, some might get "slightly" better after that, but that improvement usually comes due to seasoning, pressure handling, more thought to strategy, etc. Not due to the ability to strike the shot more accurately.

I don't think it matters if you never picked up a single pool book, or had the best aiming coach in the universe show you. Within a few short years, your mind/body/eye connection is made, and that's it. That's your speed for life.

Many will disagree with me, but just look around your own pool room and you will see the same thing. Its also the same thing in every other sport on the planet.

With an attitude like yours, you have zero chance of ever improving. Why on earth did you waste all those years in school, if you don't learn anything after the first five years. You basically are saying you are unteachable. You are also saying that you are so fantastic that if you haven't figured it out in five years, no one on earth can possibly have an easier or better way of doing it. How amazingly arrogant of you!

Or, is this just your excuse for being to lazy to actually bother to learn something new that will improve you? Or is your self-esteem so low that you have settled at being far below what you are actually capable of?

Yeah, look around your poolrooom- how many people do you see that have had anyone actually teach them anything? How many have even bothered to read ONE book on how to play pool? How many there are just having some fun passing time and don't care to get really good? Basing your abilities on what most people can or cannot do only sells yourself way short, and you will never reach your real abilities. What a sad way to go through life.

Strange how ALL the studies on the subject disagree with you. Then yet, they didn't stop learning after just five years either. As long as you keep the attitude of "I can't, I can't", you never will be able to say "I can, I can".

 

[Neil]

I will first try and really give my all to CTE PRO, then possibly TOI after extensive reading the past few days here. Can't knock something 'til you try it yourself is my stance. ((hope I didn't come across as doing so)

I also would like to share the only system I use currently and absolutely adore, the Zero-X Kicking system. I've mastered the Kicking system (numbering of diamonds and use addition/subtraction) and can quite frankly kick with the best of them. I'm able to easily kick safe, kick to pocket, or simply kick to contact in an Alcatraz-like trap. That's a system I learned very easily because there are no moving parts - just diamonds and math.

Thanks all. :smile:

If you really want to make your aiming effortless, you have to put in a lot of effort to do so. But, the end result is amazing! Learn CTE, (easier if you learn 90/90 first), after those two, learn the shadow method, and the equal/opposite method. With knowing how to use those four systems proficiently, you will only miss by fundamentals going haywire on you. You will never have a lack of confidence on actually making a makeable ball.

It will take time and work to learn them proficiently. It's up to you how much work you want to put in to get better. The less work you put in, the less ability you will have.

Look no further than the match from Shane and Efren last night. The break is a big part of the game. Who won? The guy that spent hours and hours and hours practicing his break. After fifteen, twenty, years of playing, he still studies and learns and improves. Who lost? The guy that practices all the other stuff, but gives himself the excuse of "I can't break, it hurts my neck". You want to get better? Learn a different way than what you are now doing, and practice it!

Hat's off to you for trying new things, like the kicking systems, and actually improving! Keep doing that, and you can go a long ways. There are no limits except what you impose on yourself.

 

[iusedtoberich]

With an attitude like yours, you have zero chance of ever improving. Why on earth did you waste all those years in school, if you don't learn anything after the first five years. You basically are saying you are unteachable. You are also saying that you are so fantastic that if you haven't figured it out in five years, no one on earth can possibly have an easier or better way of doing it. How amazingly arrogant of you!

Or, is this just your excuse for being to lazy to actually bother to learn something new that will improve you? Or is your self-esteem so low that you have settled at being far below what you are actually capable of?

Yeah, look around your poolrooom- how many people do you see that have had anyone actually teach them anything? How many have even bothered to read ONE book on how to play pool? How many there are just having some fun passing time and don't care to get really good? Basing your abilities on what most people can or cannot do only sells yourself way short, and you will never reach your real abilities. What a sad way to go through life.

Strange how ALL the studies on the subject disagree with you. Then yet, they didn't stop learning after just five years either. As long as you keep the attitude of "I can't, I can't", you never will be able to say "I can, I can".

lol. Yep, I go through life sad every day cause I suck at pool. lol.

By your logic everyone is limitless, and all the C players would turn into A players, then Pros, then Efren speed. Yep, all it takes is instruction or an aiming system. Yep, I buy all that. Yep, all the middle speed pros like a Bartram just never tried hard enough or had the right coach to reach the top. Yep, all the C players in the pool halls who played night and day for 10 years straight gambling their brains out against A players just never had the right aiming system. Yep, thats what it is. Or take it to an acedemic level, the not so book smart kid who's parents buy him private math tutors, and he studies and studies and does his homework and still barely manages a C in math class. Yep, all that kid is missing is the right teacher. Yes, you are right.

Like I said in my first or second post in this thread, its the age old nature versus nurture debate. Its been argued for thousands of years. There will be no resolution to in in this thread. This thread is just an exercise in futility, same old arguments, even have banned members in it arguing.

And so the beat goes on.

 

[Fatboy]

Great players are born, not made. Sure they have to pay their due's to become great, but you cant train in what God left out.

 

[Fatboy]

Look no further than the match from Shane and Efren last night. The break is a big part of the game. Who won? The guy that spent hours and hours and hours practicing his break. After fifteen, twenty, years of playing, he still studies and learns and improves. Who lost? The guy that practices all the other stuff, but gives himself the excuse of "I can't break, it hurts my neck". You want to get better? Learn a different way than what you are now doing, and practice it.

i have never had a good 9B break and have never been a great 9B player, my 8B break is better and i play better 8B, i wish i started playing 1P 20 years ago. the break is the most important shot in pool(in general)

 

[iusedtoberich]

...Look no further than the match from Shane and Efren last night. The break is a big part of the game. Who won? The guy that spent hours and hours and hours practicing his break. After fifteen, twenty, years of playing, he still studies and learns and improves. Who lost? The guy that practices all the other stuff, but gives himself the excuse of "I can't break, it hurts my neck". You want to get better? Learn a different way than what you are now doing, and practice it!

....

Now I've seen it all. Maybe you should become Efren's coach? Maybe he'd become a good player?

 

[JB Cases]

lol. Yep, I go through life sad every day cause I suck at pool. lol.

By your logic everyone is limitless, and all the C players would turn into A players, then Pros, then Efren speed. Yep, all it takes is instruction or an aiming system. Yep, I buy all that. Yep, all the middle speed pros like a Bartram just never tried hard enough or had the right coach to reach the top. Yep, all the C players in the pool halls who played night and day for 10 years straight gambling their brains out against A players just never had the right aiming system. Yep, thats what it is. Or take it to an acedemic level, the not so book smart kid who's parents buy him private math tutors, and he studies and studies and does his homework and still barely manages a C in math class. Yep, all that kid is missing is the right teacher. Yes, you are right.

Like I said in my first or second post in this thread, its the age old nature versus nurture debate. Its been argued for thousands of years. There will be no resolution to in in this thread. This thread is just an exercise in futility, same old arguments, even have banned members in it arguing.

And so the beat goes on.

Well the thing is that we really never know. We don't know exactly what Bartrum's life has been like, how he came up who mentored him, how much time he really put in etc... we know that NOW he hardly puts any time into pool by his own admission.

I can tell you that over here in China you can see improvement measured in hours put in because the young folks here who are serious about it put in those grueling hours and it shows up in the quality of their play.

In China you can clearly see the difference between the players who go at it halfheartedly and the ones who are really dedicated. You see it in the shots they make, the patterns they choose, the quality of the stroke etc...

So, the debate can rage on but really until there are controlled experiments no one will ever know. One thing is certain, throughout the past century of study there has been no champion of any sport who didn't get there through an extraordinary that EXTRA-ordinary amount of practice.

Despite all the movies where some naive but extremely talented "natural" bests all the pros that story doesn't exist in the real world but a lot of people believe it does.

 

[Neil]

lol. Yep, I go through life sad every day cause I suck at pool. lol.

By your logic everyone is limitless, and all the C players would turn into A players, then Pros, then Efren speed. Yep, all it takes is instruction or an aiming system. Yep, I buy all that. Yep, all the middle speed pros like a Bartram just never tried hard enough or had the right coach to reach the top. Yep, all the C players in the pool halls who played night and day for 10 years straight gambling their brains out against A players just never had the right aiming system. Yep, thats what it is. Or take it to an acedemic level, the not so book smart kid who's parents buy him private math tutors, and he studies and studies and does his homework and still barely manages a C in math class. Yep, all that kid is missing is the right teacher. Yes, you are right.

Like I said in my first or second post in this thread, its the age old nature versus nurture debate. Its been argued for thousands of years. There will be no resolution to in in this thread. This thread is just an exercise in futility, same old arguments, even have banned members in it arguing.

And so the beat goes on.

Maybe some day you will "get a clue", but I doubt it, since you made it clear that you think you are incapable of learning new things.

And, if you really think that any top player today or yesterday got there with no instruction, just natural talent, you are a fool. Efren even admits he learned a lot of his creativity by watching bangers. Watching them fluke something in, and then studying it and practicing it until he could do the same thing on purpose. Only a fool thinks they are unteachable. Don't play the part of a fool, I really don't believe you are one.

 

[Neil]

Now I've seen it all. Maybe you should become Efren's coach? Maybe he'd become a good player?

It's obvious that you don't want to understand or learn anything. Keep twisting what people say to make yourself feel better and have a cheap excuse.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Earl Strickland.

 

[genomachino]

Try just pointing a gun just naturally........

Asking because I've never ever learned a system to help me aim, nor knew one existed for aiming specifically. It comes naturally to me when approaching the table, look at the shot, and get down and take the shot. Kicks and banks, yes I use a systematic approach. Please share your "technique(s)".

I think I'd miss more if I had to add any more thought into the shot than what feels right.

Try pointing a gun just naturally at the target instead of using the sights or the scope.

How good would that work?

Some would be pretty good and some would be pretty bad.

Sounds like pool.

There is a natural sight for each and every shot when the eyes are right there. If you know where this is you can get down on a shot and they will all look good.

If the correct picture is getting to the brain the body has a chance to get it done.

If you don't see it right good luck.

Again, it's just like not using the sights on the gun.

Need I say more? Pretty simple.

 

[taemin952]

Adding this to my list of systems to try.

Hi,

I checked out the website and I like the plain English, straightforwardness.

Will add to my "to purchase" list.

Thank you!

Taemin

Try pointing a gun just naturally at the target instead of using the sights or the scope.

How good would that work?

Some would be pretty good and some would be pretty bad.

Sounds like pool.

There is a natural sight for each and every shot when the eyes are right there. If you know where this is you can get down on a shot and they will all look good.

If the correct picture is getting to the brain the body has a chance to get it done.

If you don't see it right good luck.

Again, it's just like not using the sights on the gun.

Need I say more? Pretty simple.

 

[The One]

Try pointing a gun just naturally at the target instead of using the sights or the scope.

How good would that work?

Some would be pretty good and some would be pretty bad.

Sounds like pool.

There is a natural sight for each and every shot when the eyes are right there. If you know where this is you can get down on a shot and they will all look good.

If the correct picture is getting to the brain the body has a chance to get it done.

If you don't see it right good luck.

Again, it's just like not using the sights on the gun.

Need I say more? Pretty simple.

Some people can figure this out and some need to be taught this and some just cant understand this at all and brush it off as nonsense.

 

[JB Cases]

Keith McCready was hustling when he was a teen back in the days when no one taught you how to shoot...they wanted your money.

There are bangers that have been shooting for 40 years that can't run a rack.

Yes, there are naturals.

Not a proper comparison. Keith lived at the poolroom. Find me any person who put in the same time as keith with the same influences and I guarantee you they are world class.

 

[taemin952]

a lot of research and thought after research

From what I have read here and all over the web, aiming systems have very little to do with playing great shape, rather to ensure a critical shot is made, correct? (I def. stand to be corrected) Thank you!

 

[Neil]

From what I have read here and all over the web, aiming systems have very little to do with playing great shape, rather to ensure a critical shot is made, correct? (I def. stand to be corrected) Thank you!

Correct. Aiming systems are for aiming.

 

[taemin952]

I'm very sorry that you've interpreted that way. That was probably a 180 of my intended question. I watched YouTube videos and like I said, researched a lot. TOI, CTE/PRO1 and 90/90. However, I appreciate the constructive criticism. Read through the entire thread please, instead of looking at my latest post. Then repost. Thanks.

It's obvious that you don't want to understand or learn anything. Keep twisting what people say to make yourself feel better and have a cheap excuse.

It's obvious that you don't want to understand or learn anything. Keep twisting what people say to make yourself feel better and have a cheap excuse.

 

[Neil]

I'm very sorry that you've interpreted that way. That was probably a 180 of my intended question. I watched YouTube videos and like I said, researched a lot. TOI, CTE/PRO1 and 90/90. However, I appreciate the constructive criticism. Read through the entire thread please, instead of looking at my latest post. Then repost. Thanks.

Uh...you might want to re-read the above posts of mine. They were to someone else not you. That's why I quoted someone else and then replied.