Emily Duddy VS Ine Helvik match Amway Cup March 2013

Taco said:
Yeah, you're right.
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Actually, if back then the information flowed as quickly as it does today, Fats would have been revealed as a BS artist in a flash. Can you Imagine when he started the rumor about the Book and Movie was about Him?? and in an hour after he said it, Walter Tevis posts that it wasnt true... THat would have put that story to bed rather quickly, instead of taking years to circulate to being an untruth...Fats was a nothing, two bit trickshot low level hustler. He Never won any tournament, yet be bragged about winning many...Fats got away with a lot of BS...He was fortunate to be born before the Information Highway was in place. Otherwise his fame would have been short lived.......
 
JAM said:
Ain't that the truth! Fats once toured the country in a colorful Lincoln limousine with his nickname painted along the side panels in translucent paint. The paint would actually change colors as it moved with the reflections from the sun:
Minnesota Fats, King of Pool.

After a while, everybody else believed it too! :grin-square:
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Jam, just an inquiry, but I seem to remember you being in the anti-Shanelle Loraine-camp for pretty much the same reasons people are bashing Emily. Whats with the heel face turn (or face heel turn depending on your perspective)?
 
Masayoshi said:
Jam, just an inquiry, but I seem to remember you being in the anti-Shanelle Loraine-camp for pretty much the same reasons people are bashing Emily. Whats with the heel face turn (or face heel turn depending on your perspective)?
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I had mixed feelings about Shanelle who, at the time you are referring to, was being advertised by Dragon as a world-class professional player. Several people told me she is as nice as nice can be in person. I think Blackjack was one of them. I thought her representing, as an example, the United States in another country as the best of the best the United States has to offer was wrong, but as we all know, Dragon's advertisements do seem to, for lack of a better word, embellish facts a wee bit.

Sometimes the wording can be offensive, such as when Dragon promotes the 14.1 tournament was THE WORLD tournament. This did not sit well with the world professional pool organization(s) when Dragon used the word "world."

With Emily, I don't think how she is presenting herself is deceiving, and if she wants dress comfortable wearing boots, as long as she is meeting the dress code, I see no problem. I have never read where Emily claims to be the best of the best or a world-class champion. I admire the fact that she is using social media to promote herself. Bravo to her! :)
 
JAM said:
Ain't that the truth! Fats once toured the country in a colorful Lincoln limousine with his nickname painted along the side panels in translucent paint. The paint would actually change colors as it moved with the reflections from the sun:
Minnesota Fats, King of Pool.

After a while, everybody else believed it too! :grin-square:
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JAM

It's a funny thing with this place. Everybody wants to moan about the lack of mainstream interest in pool yet as soon as someone promotes themselves and pool, everyone is all over them.

Most recognizable name to the general public in pool? Minnesota Fats.

Biggest self-promoter in pool? Minnesota Fats.

If Fats was alive today, you can bet he'd be on AZ, woofin and the same group of "reality defenders" would be pointing out over and over and over that he's not the greatest. Fact is he was the greatest, ask that guy sitting across the aisle (not that guy sitting with you please) from you at the restaurant.

Ali walked through the Olympic village in 1960 (I think) announcing to everyone that he was "The Greatest Fighter in the World" when all he had won was some Golden Gloves stuff. Lots of people knew he was wrong, myself I'd much have rather end listened to Ali at the time than the naysayers.

Kevin
 
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John Novak said:
Actually, if back then the information flowed as quickly as it does today, Fats would have been revealed as a BS artist in a flash. Can you Imagine when he started the rumor about the Book and Movie was about Him?? and in an hour after he said it, Walter Tevis posts that it wasnt true... THat would have put that story to bed rather quickly, instead of taking years to circulate to being an untruth...Fats was a nothing, two bit trickshot low level hustler. He Never won any tournament, yet be bragged about winning many...Fats got away with a lot of BS...He was fortunate to be born before the Information Highway was in place. Otherwise his fame would have been short lived.......
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I'm not so sure. The thing Fats had going for him, unlike others, was PERSONALITY. Nobody cared that he wasn't in the top 10 of pool players. They enjoyed the entertainment he provided. :grin-square:

This is the ingredient that is missing in pool today.
 
JAM said:
I'm not so sure. The thing Fats had going for him, unlike others, was PERSONALITY. Nobody cared that he wasn't in the top 10 of pool players. They enjoyed the entertainment he provided. :grin-square:

This is the ingredient that is missing in pool today.
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People to this day still think he was one of the greatest players of all time...They are just misguided with lack of facts......By the time the truth came out about each of his stories, people just let it pass.....Dont forget the only time he was in the limelight was when some pool event was on tv.....Otherwise his name was rarely mentioned in normal conversation..Nobody would last as long as Fats did behind a viel of lies today because of how fast information flows.....You would be found out in a New York Minute, and crawl back under the rock that you came from.....Im sure there were plenty of pool professionals that felt that way about Fats. Fatty got a lot of the reward without putting in any hard work to achieve the fame of the great players....sad
 
John Novak said:
People to this day still think he was one of the greatest players of all time...They are just misguided with lack of facts......By the time the truth came out about each of his stories, people just let it pass.....Dont forget the only time he was in the limelight was when some pool event was on tv.....Otherwise his name was rarely mentioned in normal conversation..Nobody would last as long as Fats did behind a viel of lies today because of how fast information flows.....You would be found out in a New York Minute, and crawl back under the rock that you came from.....Im sure there were plenty of pool professionals that felt that way about Fats. Fatty got a lot of the reward without putting in any hard work to achieve the fame of the great players....sad
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We'll just have to disagree. I think he put in a lot of hard work in the pool industry, more than others, but I happen to have read extensively about him from numerous sources, to include those who knew him well.

You can be great, not the best, and make a fortune in any endeavor, but you have to invest time and effort. This includes advertising.

Almost everybody I know who knows nothing about pool has heard of Minnesota Fats. None of them have heard of Efren, Shane, Earl, or Jean, FWIW!
 
JAM said:
Almost everybody I know who knows nothing about pool has heard of Minnesota Fats. None of them have heard of Efren, Shane, Earl, or Jean, FWIW!
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And Efren, Shane, Earl and Jean weren't depicted in a legendary Hollywood movie starring Paul Newman.
 
I will not dismiss Minnesota Fats achievements. In 1961 World one-pocket championship, "The Hustler's Jamboree", Minnesota Fats was placed THIRD. First place went to "Connecticut Johny" Vives and second place went to " Cowboy" Jimmy Moore. To me that is a big achievement.

* Pool players have a tendency to dismiss or trivialize the skills of other pool players.

* One time I heard one US legendary player telling a canadian player ( Paul Potier )to watch his ( The legend`s ) video and learn how to play pool. Only 6 months prior to that the Canadian pro player was placed THIRD in the world championships in 1993.



* Another time I heard one Low to middle tier pro player angrily telling a Top Tier Pro that he did not belong to Mens Pro Tour circuit and should be playing in BCA`s Amateur Leagues.
 
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vagabond said:
I will not dismiss Minnesota Fats achievements. In 1961 World one-pocket championship, "The Hustler's Jamboree", Minnesota Fats was placed THIRD. First place went to "Connecticut Johny" Vives and second place went to " Cowboy" Jimmy Moore. To me that is a big achievement.

* Pool players have a tendency to dismiss or trivialize the skills of other pool players.

* One time I heard one US legendary player telling a canadian player ( Paul Potier )to watch his ( The legend`s ) video and learn how to play pool. Only 6 months prior to that the Canadian pro player was placed THIRD in the world championships in 1993.



* Another time I heard one Low to middle tier pro player angrily telling a Top Tier Pro that he did not belong to Mens Pro Tour circuit and should be playing in BCA`s Amateur Leagues.
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Yep.

One of the first things I guy learns when he has "inside pool knowledge" is that Fats wasn't the best in the world. Very few people that actually saw him play knock his game and classifying a guy that would run all over you as a chump because you disagree with his self-promotion is not only lunacy, but its how Fats made his living.

Jay Helfert saw him play. Jay has nothing but respect for Fatty.

Kevin
 
If you duct-taped all of the top 25 players in the world together, Fats could spot them the wild 5, last 3 and the first shot after the break when it came to entertainment and being "interesting" in general. It's the lack of Fats-like personas that make pool the most boring thing in the world to watch.

"THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH POOL"

(I had to sneak that in) lol

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
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even today

JAM said:
We'll just have to disagree. I think he put in a lot of hard work in the pool industry, more than others, but I happen to have read extensively about him from numerous sources, to include those who knew him well.

You can be great, not the best, and make a fortune in any endeavor, but you have to invest time and effort. This includes advertising.

Almost everybody I know who knows nothing about pool has heard of Minnesota Fats. None of them have heard of Efren, Shane, Earl, or Jean, FWIW!
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I'm sure even today Fats would poll very well if a survey asked the general public who the greatest pool player ever was. Regardless of what anyone thinks, Fats did find a way to get the cheese! At my best I really thought I could have beaten Fats, if I were allowed to wrap half a roll of Duck tape around his mouth and head! I knew I wouldn't have a prayer if he could talk. Of course I could have been wrong even with the tape, trying to clock Fats accurately was like trying to clock a will-o-wisp.

If somebody set up a standard series of say a hundred shots to assess skill Fats might not have been in the top ten of the best players of his day. Play the same guys for the cash and he would come out far better than his skills indicated, not that Fats was any slouch when he was serious about playing!

Fats and Willie Mosconi never played one pocket in their series that I can recall. Mosconi considered it a gaff game but also it was Fats' best game and I'm sure Willie didn't want to give Fats' mouth ammunition for the rest of their lives had he lost to Fats playing one pocket. Not saying that Fats would have won, but then again I'm not saying he wouldn't have either. Come to think about it I'd have liked to see how they matched up playing banks too. Hard to say how well Fats played, like all hustlers no better than he had to I suspect.

While Fats was looking out for Fats far more than for the game, there probably aren't a dozen people who have done more for the game in the history of pool.

Hu
 
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richiebalto said:
Rj, this sums the whole thread up, gReat post!

I agree with everything here, you do not have to be the best player to jump up and play against the best.

She is on her way, Emily looks to have what it takes to play this game at a high level, she just needs more time to bring it all together.

The main thing here is, Emily has the talent now she has to put it all together!
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Thanks Richie,.... funny though, the knockers are too busy saying she is not a pro, and critiquing her outter wear to understand what is really going on..... Too funny... And Emily can thank them for keeping the thread going...

Is there anyone that does NOT know Emily Duddy now :) And while they are knocking her, she is travelling the world playing pool... and living life the way most knockers can only dream about :wink:
 
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