Honing your joint.

ChopStick

ChopStick

Unsane Poster
Silver Member
(I can hear the comments now) :grin:

This is something I have been doing for years with good results. I am sure some of the purists will disagree. The average joint is not finished beyond facing off the joint surfaces. Even the best facing tools will leave tiny ridges in the joint surface. Look at your joint under a reasonably powerful magnifying glass like a 10x. You will see something that is not quite perfect.

What I do is cut a piece of 600 or 1200 grit sandpaper into a one inch square. I cut a hole in the center of the square that will closely fit over the pin. I screw the cue together until it stops on the sandpaper paper. Then I back the joint off just enough where the paper will move but remain tight against it. Then I work the paper back and forth in small movements. This takes quite a bit of time. I just hone it a bit every day sitting in front of the TV. The trick is not to get in a hurry. Take a couple of weeks to do it. Just a tiny bit every day.

I do one side then flip the paper over and do the other side. Sometimes, depending on the joint, I will screw the joint tight, break it loose, then repeat screwing it tight and loosening it.

This may not be the best way of doing it and it may not be for everyone. I get a noticeable improvement in the feel of the hit on every cue I have done this to.
 
I understand your point but I would be very worried about rounding the edge of the joint doing what you are doing.

I might try it but I would use a fine sanding disc from a dremmil tool as it is solid & would not have any chance of rounding over the edges.

Regards,
 
ENGLISH! said:
I understand your point but I would be very worried about rounding the edge of the joint doing what you are doing.

I might try it but I would use a fine sanding disc from a dremmil tool as it is solid & would not have any chance of rounding over the edges.

Regards,
Click to expand...

Yes, you could if you are not careful. Even more so if you use a doubled piece of sandpaper to get both sides at once. I have had a lot of practice keeping paper perpendicular to the pin. It is not that hard. I get an improvement in the sharpness of the edges on the outside of the joint and at the hole in the shaft. I should have said, I have only done this to flat faced joints.
 
I would think that making the joint facings smoother will make it also be more liable to work loose as there is not as much friction keeping them from sliding.
 
hit

ChopStick said:
(I can hear the comments now) :grin:

This is something I have been doing for years with good results. I am sure some of the purists will disagree. The average joint is not finished beyond facing off the joint surfaces. Even the best facing tools will leave tiny ridges in the joint surface. Look at your joint under a reasonably powerful magnifying glass like a 10x. You will see something that is not quite perfect.

What I do is cut a piece of 600 or 1200 grit sandpaper into a one inch square. I cut a hole in the center of the square that will closely fit over the pin. I screw the cue together until it stops on the sandpaper paper. Then I back the joint off just enough where the paper will move but remain tight against it. Then I work the paper back and forth in small movements. This takes quite a bit of time. I just hone it a bit every day sitting in front of the TV. The trick is not to get in a hurry. Take a couple of weeks to do it. Just a tiny bit every day.

I do one side then flip the paper over and do the other side. Sometimes, depending on the joint, I will screw the joint tight, break it loose, then repeat screwing it tight and loosening it.

This may not be the best way of doing it and it may not be for everyone. I get a noticeable improvement in the feel of the hit on every cue I have done this to.
Click to expand...


How can you get a better hit.
If you screw your cue together and its tight , what are you changing?
Also it is machined flat .
by doing this by hand with sand paper you take a risk of making the joint un even.

Also why wouldnt you use lapping compound?
MMike
 
Have you thought about taping the sandpaper to a wood disc (masonite or any real flat wood surface)? Make it about the size of a quarter with a hole in the middle for the pin. It would be really accurate if you filled the hole with a bushing whose inner diameter matched the outer diameter of the pin: that would keep the disc/sandpaper at a 90-degree angle to the pin.

One of these days, when I can reliably pocket my shots, I intend to care about stuff like this. Until then the "hit" doesn't mean much without the "aim.":D
 
While I understand where the OP is coming from, it seems like much ado about nothing to me. But, to each their own.
 
bdorman said:
Have you thought about taping the sandpaper to a wood disc (masonite or any real flat wood surface)? Make it about the size of a quarter with a hole in the middle for the pin. It would be really accurate if you filled the hole with a bushing whose inner diameter matched the outer diameter of the pin: that would keep the disc/sandpaper at a 90-degree angle to the pin.

One of these days, when I can reliably pocket my shots, I intend to care about stuff like this. Until then the "hit" doesn't mean much without the "aim.":D
Click to expand...

Or a stainless steel washer. Good idea. :thumbup:
 
Maybe This Improves the Joint.....How?

I've looked at the cue joints on my Runde Schon, Tim Scruggs & Paul Mottey cues using a 8x magnifying glass.

There's absolutely nothing to buff, rub, sand, etc to improve the joint fit. The surfaces are perfectly smooth and roughing up the surface areas isn't going to improve the fit because all of the cue joints are really tight when screwed together. None of my cues "ever" develops a loose joint while in use.....that would be once again...."Never".

So trying to sand/smooth an already smooth surface, keep in mind I didn't use an electron microscope to examine the cue joint surfaces but an 8x magnifying glass furnished pretty good magnification results, seems .......well, it just seems to be frivolous unless your cue's joint was already in poor condition. In fact, I suspect doing this will be a source of future problems/issues with the cue joint down the road.

So is there anyone out there with a high end cue that has cue joint problems? I just can't imagine a Richard Black cue ever leaving his shop with a cue joint imperfection and he's just as fastidious as any of the cue-makers I already own. If anyone has a cue joint issue, IMO....the only way to proceed would be to present the cue back to the original cue-maker but utilizing a home spun remedy for a problem that might not even exist with your cues is a wee bit foolhardy. The best way to sum this all up appears below and never fails.

Always remember this....."ALL ADVICE IS ONLY WORTH AS MUCH AS YOU PAID TO OBTAIN IT." and that's how much free advice is worth!
 
Last edited:
mortuarymike-nv said:
How can you get a better hit.
If you screw your cue together and its tight , what are you changing?
Also it is machined flat .
by doing this by hand with sand paper you take a risk of making the joint un even.

Also why wouldnt you use lapping compound?
MMike
Click to expand...

I am just applying a finer finish to the joint surface. Smoothing out the tiny scratches left over from the machining process. My theory is that this effectively increases the contact area of the joint. Where a tight joint before may be sitting up in tiny ridges, I am removing the ridges. It's only like .0001 mm. Not enough the alter the accuracy of the facing. That is why I said in my original post, don't get in a hurry. I am only removing a teenie tiny amount of material.

I have considered using a lapping compound for many years but I have not found a good way to apply it and get any action with it. I have a leather strop and buffing compound I use in sharpening knives. I might be able to adapt something from that process.

I also should have said, I am only doing this to cheap sneaky petes. I have never done this to an expensive cue. I like the hit it produces better than the stock cue. I am doing one now and thought someone else might like to try it.
 
Bavafongoul said:
I've looked at the cue joints on my Runde Schon, Tim Scruggs & Paul Mottey cues using a 8x magnifying glass.

There's absolutely nothing to buff, rub, sand, etc to improve the joint fit. The surfaces are perfectly smooth and roughing up the surface areas isn't going to improve the fit because all of the cue joints are really tight when screwed together. None of my cues "ever" develops a loose joint while in use.....that would be once again...."Never".

So trying to sand/smooth an already smooth surface, keep in mind I didn't use an electron microscope to examine the cue joint surfaces but an 8x magnifying glass furnished pretty good magnification results, seems .......well, it just seems to be frivolous unless your cue's joint was already in poor condition. In fact, I suspect doing this will be a source of future problems/issues with the cue joint down the road.

So is there anyone out there with a high end cue that has cue joint problems? I just can't imagine a Richard Black cue ever leaving his shop with a cue joint imperfection and he's just as fastidious as any of the cue-makers I already own. If anyone has a cue joint issue, IMO....the only way to proceed would be to present the cue back to the original cue-maker but utilizing a home spun remedy for a problem that might not even exist with your cues is a wee bit foolhardy. The best way to sum this all up appears below and never fails.

Always remember this....."ALL ADVICE IS ONLY WORTH AS MUCH AS YOU PAID TO OBTAIN IT." and that's how much free advice is worth!
Click to expand...

I should have said in my original post that I am only doing this to relatively cheap sneaky pete cues. There is always room for improvement with them. I have never done this to a high end cue and have never felt the need to.

The cues I am talking about, you can take your fingernail next to the pin or the hole in the shaft and scratch across the surface to the outside. You can feel how rough they are finished. I have found that by smoothing this out, I like the hit better.
 
bad idea

ChopStick said:
Or a stainless steel washer. Good idea. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

With the exception of some specialty washers that are machined, washers are lousy as far as surface shape. I suppose you could lap the washer first but you keep introducing more variables. When it is all said and done, your original method or lapping compound are probably the best options. The two sides of the joint may not be perfect but if you use one for the backer and sand one and alternate or use lapping compound you have matched the two surfaces together. A wooden block doesn't accomplish that either.

I have sanded or sanded and lapped most of my cue joints. They didn't always need it but a quick check never hurts. The same trick has been used to fit barrels to actions on some very high dollar rifles. Highly accurate rifles too which isn't always one and the same thing.

Hu
 
When you face off a joint, it is done with a sharp cutting tool.

Take a pencil and run it across the joint when the lathe is spinning.

You should take off just enuff material to make the pencil mark disappear.

Even using 600 to 1200, I would be afraid of making an uneven joint.

I mean, in theory, if the joints are uneven to begin with, you won't be straightening them up.

If one is straight and one not, eventually you will make it straight, maybe.

But, if you were to put the sand paper on the eneven joint first and lapped the other side, would you not be lapping the even side to match the uneven one.
I'm not disputing the fact that you have done it.

Just not as reliable as using a cutting tool.

I will face one off and use a straight edge across them to check.

The Mayans used to cut stone to make walls that you couldn't slip a piece of paper in between when stacked.

I'm not a Mayan stone mason so will trust my lathe.
 
Last edited:
flat face

ChopStick said:
I am just applying a finer finish to the joint surface. Smoothing out the tiny scratches left over from the machining process. My theory is that this effectively increases the contact area of the joint. Where a tight joint before may be sitting up in tiny ridges, I am removing the ridges. It's only like .0001 mm. Not enough the alter the accuracy of the facing. That is why I said in my original post, don't get in a hurry. I am only removing a teenie tiny amount of material.

I have considered using a lapping compound for many years but I have not found a good way to apply it and get any action with it. I have a leather strop and buffing compound I use in sharpening knives. I might be able to adapt something from that process.

I also should have said, I am only doing this to cheap sneaky petes. I have never done this to an expensive cue. I like the hit it produces better than the stock cue. I am doing one now and thought someone else might like to try it.
Click to expand...

I have always enjoyed your posts and not trying to give you hard time but what you your are doing does come with a risk.

Once the pin has been set its pretty hard to clean up around it.

Live cutter might do a cleaner job if the pin wasnt installed.
as said above rounding the edge of the joint is a possible problem.

I havent tried what you are doing.

good luck..
if it aint broke dont fix it.
MMike
 
I am skeptical about any change in the hit.

I have occasionally cleaned and or polished a joint face "by hand" because it needed it, but if a joint needs actual facing work I would prefer it be done on a lathe...but you certainly could do it by hand.

I never perceived it as altering the hit in any way. A smooth, well polished joint face collects less grime. Grime on the joint face easily makes it screw together crooked.




.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top