JB stoops to new lows

[KRJ]

Do you guys not read or comprehend what he was saying? Really?

JB is making a JJ knockoff for $300. If you want said knockoff signed by JB himself, it'll be $475.

I believe it's you who is confused. What part did I not comprehend, the part that JB is gonna charge top price for a custom built case just like JJ, or the part that I inferred he was gonna give you the family and friends discount if he lets cheap labor build it for you ? And the third optioin is to buy the original from JJ

I don't care either way, I don't own a JB or a JJ. But man, can he ever post something without knocking someone while trying to sell his gear, ever ? He comes off as vindictive and petty.... but hey, it is the internet I would NOT buy a Hercek cue if Joel came on here talking smack about Tascarella, or the other way around..... And I know who built Joel's cue's, you would NEVER have to guess at that, nor pay extra for him to be the only one to touch the finished product.... LOL.

 

[12squared]

Do you guys not read or comprehend what he was saying? Really?

JB is making a JJ knockoff for $300. If you want said knockoff signed by JB himself, it'll be $475.

You have the right to spin the info anyway you want, but both you and the OP are not being factual, so let me spell it out to you so YOU can comprehend it:

John will 100% personally make a JJ "inspired"case, sign it and sell it for $475. He will use this opportunity to video how to make a JJ style case. Afterwards, his shop will be making similar cases (not made by John but using his blueprints) and those will be sold for $300 + shipping. These are two completely different things, not to be tied together as the same offering.

I'm all for people talking about the ethics about making a JJ style case, but please be accurate in the facts you use. Maybe you should go back and read John's post. This isn't Bonus Ball after all.

Carry on.

Dave

 

[Spimp13]

But man, can he ever post something without knocking someone while trying to sell his gear, ever ?

I should have been on Wheel of Fortune. Pat I'd like to buy an 'O' please. Matt, there is one 'O'. Pat, I'd like to solve the puzzle. The answer is NO

 

[one stroke]

I'll be honest here. I have no real favorite in the Barton/Justis debate as to who is the better case maker. Both guys are world class case makers. Both guys build an amazing product that speaks for itself AND has earned them many fans who are willing to speak for them as well. That kind of reputation doesn't just appear out of nowhere. Its established over a period of time by continuing to make a great product that people love.

But I'm with one stroke here. John has started a number of threads both here and on other sites where he takes shots at Jack... all the while adding the disclaimer that "Jack makes a great case" then follows it with "now let me tell you about all that's wrong with it". He makes videos using Justis cases as examples of bad protection, etc.. He offers to make 'upgrades' to Jack's product. Now he's going to teach everyone how to make "this very simple" case... a Justis case, etc.. The passive/aggressive "I'm just here to help you learn" front is just that... a front. John has made it clear that he has an agenda. And while that agenda SHOULD be to make a great case that players will love, his agenda is more like "Let's try and convince the world that Jack's cases suck and mine are better."

Both John and Jack are GREAT case makers who make a solid, well-liked product. Their work has earned them many fans and a considerable amount of success in their industry. But John seems hellbent on showing and telling everyone "Mine is better! Love me more!" in his extremely passive aggressive ways. Frankly, it makes John look bad because it gives him the appearance of being insecure when his long list of orders and his large number of fans and customers should be all the reassurance he needs that he's doing fine by many.

Jack and John BOTH have well-deserved reputations in the pool world. Jack's reputation as a great case maker is deserved. But John's reputation as that of a great case maker AND a crazy, petty, immature individual is also very deserved. He'd be better off just logging off, stepping away from the keyboard, and both making and selling cases rather than giving people in a public forum a number of reasons to steer clear of him and his product.

- B <----------- not a Justis "fanboy" and presently owner of a JB case

That's about how I see it , JB does not need to stoop to these levels if he makes a 300 dollar case it's not going to sell more because he is trying to sabotage JJ cases on forum i dont think anyone is confusing case building with rocket building so showing a video showing how easy it is or insulting Bobby really serves no pertinent purpose



1
I

 

[tank69]

So it must be a terrible case if not made specifically by JB? His workers don't do a good job? Whether I misunderstood or not, the fact of the matter is that you can get a "replica" for $300. If its just as good, looks good and performs well...what's the big deal...it's still a JB case.

As far as cases go, does it matter who does the work as long as the standards and quality are adhered to while under the company umbrella? I don't get it. People talk about the JB vendetta, but with all this nitpicking, it's a bigger problem.

 

[Perk]

LOL I would be willing to bet blackballed would destroy you on and off the pool table.

Blackballed is more of a Bonus Ball player now...he cant lose at that game....he is very rusty at the other rotation games though.....

 

[Spimp13]

Blackballed is more of a Bonus Ball player now...he cant lose at that game....he is very rusty at the other rotation games though.....

He's practicing at home right now...look at that focus.

 

[mia]

I don't have enough hands or fingers to count the number of car/truck manufacturers' commercials I see on TV comparing their product to the competitions', and going so far as to say that their product is superior and why. Heck, Microflaccid and Apple had a very successful run of commercials going back and forth at each other. Cellular phone providers...same thing. Currently Shark is taking a hard stab at Dyson, offering more performance for a 1/3 of the price.

This is all healthy business competition....without it, we'd have the dreaded monopolies, where there is no choice...ya get what ya get.

You can love JB or hate him...but the fact remains that he offers a rock solid product, a fact that many can attest to. Additionally, he has helped several fledgling custom case makers to craft a better product, just by sharing his experiences over the many many years he's been doing this now. And not just case makers...other leather workers as well. He does so much more behind the scenes than most of you will ever know to help promote the pool industry...worldwide. We ALL have so many different personalities here...I just find it easier to accept people for who they are, and move on. It wastes far too much energy to hate.

Lisa

Lisa-
Do you really see this as nothing more than John initiating some healthy business competition and NOT the act of a bitter, immature man who desperately needs to be viewed as every bit the legend (if not even more of one) than Jack? If so, you're blinded by your friendship with John.

Yeah he makes a great case. No one is questioning that. He does a great job of painting himself as insecure and overly vindictive to boot. THAT is what is being questioned here. His obsession with Jack and Jack's work. Not his OWN work.

Stick to making cases John. Not making videos, proving points, and attempting to sway the Justis fan base.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I can't wait for video 2 and 3.

I've been interested in leather work ever since I joined here and read some of John's threads. I will probably end up buying a CnC and pop out cases faster than JB.

Push a button, go have a coffee, come back and you have a case. Just like the cue makers do.

 

[tank69]

I can't wait for video 2 and 3.

I've been interested in leather work ever since I joined here and read some of John's threads. I will probably end up buying a CnC and pop out cases faster than JB.

Push a button, go have a coffee, come back and you have a case. Just like the cue makers do.

AWESOME! Thanks...laughed so hard, spit my tea out!

 

[prewarhero]

Lisa-
Do you really see this as nothing more than John initiating some healthy business competition and NOT the act of a bitter, immature man who desperately needs to be viewed as every bit the legend (if not even more of one) than Jack? If so, you're blinded by your friendship with John.

Yeah he makes a great case. No one is questioning that. He does a great job of painting himself as insecure and overly vindictive to boot. THAT is what is being questioned here. His obsession with Jack and Jack's work. Not his OWN work.

Stick to making cases John. Not making videos, proving points, and attempting to away the Justis fan base.

I see it a little different. Jack makes a different style case than JB. If you want Jack's style you had to go to him. Now, JB says to the consumer, I can do that style and do it for less and better quality (his words). Regardless of the motivation behind the move it is still a good business move. Knock out a couple of barriers between you a segment of the market.

JB has created the market of: you want that style case get it from me unless you want to may for the Justis name, then pay more.

Let's take instroke for examample. I would rather buy a Justis style case than an instroke cowboy case. An instroke cowboy 2x4 sells for what 350? Now I can get a Justis style case, better inserts (again JBs words), only semi-production for less than an instroke cowboy- how many costumers will latch on to that?

There is one more unseen benefit for us with all of this. Maybe JB will be so busy with orders he won't have the time to rant and rave here on AZ as much. :thumbup:

 

[Spimp13]

There is one more unseen benefit for us with all of this. Maybe JB will be so busy with orders he won't have the time to rant and rave here on AZ as much. :thumbup:

Sorry, but this made me lol. You are smoking the absolute best ganja money can buy if you think he will stay off this forum. Please send me your paypal ASAP so I can expedite shipment of this stuff (for medicinal purposes only ofc).

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

You can love JB or hate him...but the fact remains that he offers a rock solid product, a fact that many can attest to. Additionally, he has helped several fledgling custom case makers to craft a better product, just by sharing his experiences over the many many years he's been doing this now. And not just case makers...other leather workers as well. He does so much more behind the scenes than most of you will ever know to help promote the pool industry...worldwide. We ALL have so many different personalities here...I just find it easier to accept people for who they are, and move on. It wastes far too much energy to hate.

Lisa

For those who don't already know, Lisa is on JB's payroll so her opinion here can hardly be considered to be unbiased and objective.

 

[ridewiththewind]

For those who don't already know, Lisa is on JB's payroll so her opinion here can hardly be considered to be unbiased and objective.

Actually.....I am not on JB's payroll. I work a poopy little part-time job, and am grateful for it! Thanks for playing tho!!

 

[jhanso18]

Can I declare my dad the current champion of the UDFL then???

 

[JB Cases]

The obsession of JB and Jack Justice is hitting a all time low as now he has stooped to posting cases for sale stating how easy they are to make with a video to boot
The case was supposed to be 300 but after the old bait and switch they are now 475
If I were ever even considering buying a JB case I would not ever even consider it after his classless and unprofessional approach to selling his cases
And of course John will consider this as free advertising


1

Without readin the rest of the thread yet, this is the orginal post

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4214261#post4214261

And you are 100% right I am stooping to new lows. Low prices that is.

In recent years we have had to increase our prices as the dollar has weakened against the yuan and the prices for labor and materials have gone up. Our cases take a LOT of time and more material to make than most others.

So needing a lower priced case I opted to use the much simpler construction of the Justis style case. Since I have been repeatedly challenged by a big Justis case collector to "make a case" and since my staff is currently busy building custom orders it falls to me to make this new line.

So I thought why not take care of both tasks and use the opportunity to show the world how a simple case is made. And that's how we end up with this Justis Case Replica Project.

Along the way we will explore how the Justis is made, discuss his choices and the alternatives and when done end up with a case that looks like it and is hopefully somewhat better in construction. The whole point, to me, of making something is to be better than what came before. Jack's cases are considered by many to be the pinnacle of case making, not by me, but certainly many hold this opinion. So for me this is the logical place to start and peel back the curtain on case making. This will show exactly what sort of effort goes into the cases and teach not only consumers more about the craft but also give aspiring case makers some tips to help them avoid the same mistakes I made along the way.

When I am done the first case, fully made by me is already spoken for and I might make more but probably not as my "job" in our shop is not to make cases but instead to help my staff make cases using the knowledge and methods I have learned and invented over the past twenty years of doing this.

The staff will make this level of case and because it is much simpler to make than our own it will be the "new low" in price for our customers. I expect that we will sell hundreds of them per year and satisfy any customer looking for the Justis-level of construction. For those wanting a higher level our regular custom cases wil always be available.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

One thing that you can credit John for is that he is always willing to help out new case makers with their journey, much the same as the Cue makers do in the Ask the Maker Forum.

Like Lisa said, Love him or hate him, he does have a warm cuddly side that he lets out once in a while.

John and I have had a few back and forths. He emails me and has never been rude in his
emails to me.

 

[one stroke]

Without readin the rest of the thread yet, this is the orginal post

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4214261#post4214261

And you are 100% right I am stooping to new lows. Low prices that is.

In recent years we have had to increase our prices as the dollar has weakened against the yuan and the prices for labor and materials have gone up. Our cases take a LOT of time and more material to make than most others.

So needing a lower priced case I opted to use the much simpler construction of the Justis style case. Since I have been repeatedly challenged by a big Justis case collector to "make a case" and since my staff is currently busy building custom orders it falls to me to make this new line.

So I thought why not take care of both tasks and use the opportunity to show the world how a simple case is made. And that's how we end up with this Justis Case Replica Project.

Along the way we will explore how the Justis is made, discuss his choices and the alternatives and when done end up with a case that looks like it and is hopefully somewhat better in construction. The whole point, to me, of making something is to be better than what came before. Jack's cases are considered by many to be the pinnacle of case making, not by me, but certainly many hold this opinion. So for me this is the logical place to start and peel back the curtain on case making. This will show exactly what sort of effort goes into the cases and teach not only consumers more about the craft but also give aspiring case makers some tips to help them avoid the same mistakes I made along the way.

When I am done the first case, fully made by me is already spoken for and I might make more but probably not as my "job" in our shop is not to make cases but instead to help my staff make cases using the knowledge and methods I have learned and invented over the past twenty years of doing this.

The staff will make this level of case and because it is much simpler to make than our own it will be the "new low" in price for our customers. I expect that we will sell hundreds of them per year and satisfy any customer looking for the Justis-level of construction. For those wanting a higher level our regular custom cases wil always be available.

AC 427 Cobra 1 mil. AC Cobra replica 40 k
Balabushka 20k. Tributes 500.00


Nice try however on your reasoning the only part believable is you need to make a cheaper case , obviously because you can't sell as many of your cases that compleat in the JJ class.
That must really bother you to go to such extremes to try to swing a potential buyer , it might help your sales but it won't effect JJ sales as people who are buying them are not looking for cheap copies their looking for originals as there's only one original


1

 

[JB Cases]

AC 427 Cobra 1 mil. AC Cobra replica 40 k
Balabushka 20k. Tributes 500.00


Nice try however on your reasoning the only part believable is you need to make a cheaper case , obviously because you can't sell as many of your cases that compleat in the JJ class.
That must really bother you to go to such extremes to try to swing a potential buyer , it might help your sales but it won't effect JJ sales as people who are buying them are not looking for cheap copies their looking for originals as there's only one original


1

Actually I have more business than we can handle with our current staff. This has nothing to do with taking any of Jack's potential customers. Anyone who wants a Justis is going to buy a Justis and IF someone were on the fence and decided not to buy a Justis because of something I said then there is another person in line for a Justis who is happy to have one less person in front of them.

Justis cases have a distinctive "flavor" that Jack has developed and they have developed a following that likes that flavor. Unfortunately not everyone can afford to own a Justis, nor can everyone who wants one get one due to Jack's low production numbers.

Now, he tried to solve it a few years ago when he went to China to partner up for the Justis West line of cases made in China. But that didn't last because his partners stopped paying him as they agreed on. It's still possible to buy Justis West cases but not from Jack. And the prices are still north of $400 so not exactly a bargain.

As for our ability to sell cases in the same price range as Justis I give you our classic series, www.jbcases.com/casesbyname.html

We have no problem making and selling cases in the "Justis-style" which is REALLY the Jay Flowers/Nora Van Horn/Dennis Swift style. We can make a classic stamped western belt-tooled case as well as anyone else and sometimes better

However we put a LOT more work into our cases and this will become apparent as I move through the project and show people the differences between the simple construction Justis uses and the more involved construction we use on our custom cases.

I think that the only person this project bothers is you and a few others because the fact is that consumers knowing more about the products they own or wish to own is not a bad thing and having more choice at more prices is not a bad thing.

Is it a bit personal? Of course it is on some level, no one who has been around AZB for the past five years isn't aware of the animosity between Jack Justis and myself. If that's the catalyst for a lower priced alternative to Jack's cases to come out of our shop then so be it. Some folks like to tout Justis as the greatest case maker ever and while I don't agree I don't see any problem with following in his footsteps. Seems to me that those people should welcome anyone who wants to make Justis-style cases since they consider what he does to be the best.

In any type of endeavor in all of history all innovation comes from building on top of what came before and doing a better job of it. Jack claims he did this with the cases he made, taking the basic Nora Van Horn/Swift design and changing the handles, straps and pockets. So why do you have a problem if I take the basic Justis design and build on top of it, changing what I feel needs to be changed along the way?

 

[Banks]

AC 427 Cobra 1 mil. AC Cobra replica 40 k
Balabushka 20k. Tributes 500.00

Nestle's sweetened chocolate chips 3. Kroger's sweetened chocolate chips 2.69.

I'm starting to see what you're getting at. The tributes and replicas aren't 50 years old, so they're affordable. I hope I never have to buy 50 year old chocolate chips from a low production year.

Not really sure what your problem is, but it sounds like a doozy. Do you treat cue makers with the same disdain? "You're selling your merry widow for $300-$500, you son of a *****!"