Yes they do and it's not any placebo effect, they just come up with situations where specific position play is required by cheating pocket and they miss because that part of the pocket is absent in practice...
Tight pockets?
- Thread starter Socopool79
- Start date
Absolutely. Something I used to do that will improve your accuracy and position play. I put a ball in a every pocket against the facing. I would shoot balls in without touching the ball. Then I would move the ball to the other side of the pocket against the facing. Doing that presented two different views of the same shot. Now days you can't practice that way.
I go up to some of these tables and shoot the cue ball down the long rail. The cue ball goes into the pocket without touching the rail on the way in, strikes the facing inside the pocket and the ball will not go in. A perfectly clean shot and the ball will jar. That's just bullshit.
Comparing it to golf is not a good analogy. Your opponent is your hazard in pool. Your opponent in golf can't knock your ball in the woods or shoot it back at you. It is two different situations.
All these guys that are saying anything above 4 inches is too big, how many racks do they run? I'll bet one and occasionally two. When it starts raining 6 packs at every local pool room I might say it's time to think about changing the tables.
There will always be some people that think tight pockets are better.
Somehow they think it makes them play better.
They are just like the golfer that wants to play from the back tees but can't hit his driver 200 yards.
I had a straight pool run going this morning and at 86 I am a little straight on the 11 ball. I needed to force the cue ball over a few inches and hit it hard, hit the facing INSIDE the pocket and the ball just stayed there.
Did I miss? Not really. The table is just too tight to play reasonable pool on. Good players need some latitude.
Sorry I ordered it with such tight pockets. Won't do it again.
Bill S.
Somehow they think it makes them play better.
They are just like the golfer that wants to play from the back tees but can't hit his driver 200 yards.
I had a straight pool run going this morning and at 86 I am a little straight on the 11 ball. I needed to force the cue ball over a few inches and hit it hard, hit the facing INSIDE the pocket and the ball just stayed there.
Did I miss? Not really. The table is just too tight to play reasonable pool on. Good players need some latitude.
Sorry I ordered it with such tight pockets. Won't do it again.
Bill S.
Having a ball rattle the pocket has more to do with the cut angle of the pocket facing than the size of the pocket. We have a Gold Crown 1 here in town that has buckets for pockets, and I can hit a ball down the rail with draw and it will rattle every time. Conversely, we have a Diamond Professional with 4" pockets, and I have no problem dropping balls down the rail. If you have a problem with balls rattling, it's most likely the pocket facings that are cut bad, it has nothing to do with the size of the pocket.
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The thing about having to cheat the pocket for postition is that it more then liklely means you screwed up your previous positional shot and did not get the right angle to split the heart of the pocket and get the right cueball movement to begin with.
Tight pockets make players far more precise on getting the proper angles so that they do not have to attempt to cheat the pocket.
I am just a C player and mainly play one pocket, but tight pockets make you aim for the center of the pocket. I found when you play on a tight pocket table that when you play on a typical gold crown table it's like aiming at sewer traps when your used to playing on a tight table. Most of the players at my local pool room all play one pocket so all the tables are tight as they should be.
Maybe the NBA should consider making the rim higher at 12' reducing the rim from 18" to 16", no? I mean, those guys are pros, right?
I don't think many proponents of buckets ever spent a year or two practicing on a tight table, otherwise we would be hearing different opinions.
Fact is, if you're competing, you should be practicing on the type of equipment you expect to play on. But if you think, say, 4.25" corners are difficult, they are not. You simply have developed habits that make them seem difficult.
The only shots I play differently on tight equipment is bank shots. I avoid long bank shots. The margin of error make them low percentage. Otherwise, I shoot everything I would on a Diamond.
Fact is, if you're competing, you should be practicing on the type of equipment you expect to play on. But if you think, say, 4.25" corners are difficult, they are not. You simply have developed habits that make them seem difficult.
The only shots I play differently on tight equipment is bank shots. I avoid long bank shots. The margin of error make them low percentage. Otherwise, I shoot everything I would on a Diamond.
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It depends on where you live. California has had rooms with tight pocket tables forever.
Well Bill, after reading this thread, I guess for a person to understand, he must be (or have been at one time) an extremely good player. You gave it your best shot. I won't have the tight pockets in my place.
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So I guess you only want to hear what fits "your side" of the debate. I say that, because you jump on board with one good players statements, but dismiss all the other pros that prefer tight pockets. You do realize that by your statement worded the way it is, that you are also telling us that you don't understand??
ok! ok! ok! Neil, I will reword the post:
"Well Bill, after reading this thread, I guess for a person to understand, he must be (or have been at one time) an extremely good player. You gave it your best shot. In my 35 years owning a room, I have never considered, nor would I ever consider tight pockets. There is no debate about it's effects."
I remember when the players played faster, played far fewer safes, and pool was much more popular. Pool was fun to watch. Those were the days of the "bucket pockets". The best players still won back then.
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One other thing to clarify.
I am not against playing or gambling on tight pocket tables. I do it all the time because many people insist on playing on them.
What I am against is to Practice on a tight table all the time. They just make you gun-shy and bunt at balls. The worst possible thing for your game.
Bill S.
I am not against playing or gambling on tight pocket tables. I do it all the time because many people insist on playing on them.
What I am against is to Practice on a tight table all the time. They just make you gun-shy and bunt at balls. The worst possible thing for your game.
Bill S.
Do tight pockets help your game? Think about the easy transition for snooker players to play pool. They pocket extremely well and have basic knowledge of position. No matter what you are going to get off line and good accuracy helps you stay in your run and learning to play on tight pockets do just that.
Totally agree. And for those who say "you put it there" ... well, they're assuming you're playing by yourself then. You have to play combos, caroms, banks, billiards, long straight in shots, half pocket shots etc. The game is tough enough. If someone says that 4" is better than 4.5" ... then I hope they've ran 5+ racks in their life... or beaten the ghost. If you haven't, then it appears pool is tough enough.
Tight (or even worse, flared) pockets reduce your capacity to play position (as noted) as well as magnifies the frequency you'll gag a ball for your opponent.
And finally, I want to see people going for a shot and breaking a ball out to run out. Not constantly running out to duck.
The challenge of logic I'll lay down to ANYONE is the following: Better rules and better equipment are defined by their capacity to more accurately measure differences in the quality of play throughout all skill levels.
Tight pockets may only better-measure differences between the best players -- amongst C or B players, it may become a "Whoever gets to the 6-ball first loses." match.
That said, I think the magical range is between 4-1/3" through 4-1/2".
I'd rather watch people play on worn cloth with 4.5" pockets than new cloth with 4" pockets, any day.
Tight (or even worse, flared) pockets reduce your capacity to play position (as noted) as well as magnifies the frequency you'll gag a ball for your opponent.
And finally, I want to see people going for a shot and breaking a ball out to run out. Not constantly running out to duck.
The challenge of logic I'll lay down to ANYONE is the following: Better rules and better equipment are defined by their capacity to more accurately measure differences in the quality of play throughout all skill levels.
Tight pockets may only better-measure differences between the best players -- amongst C or B players, it may become a "Whoever gets to the 6-ball first loses." match.
That said, I think the magical range is between 4-1/3" through 4-1/2".
I'd rather watch people play on worn cloth with 4.5" pockets than new cloth with 4" pockets, any day.
I agree. Tight pockets does separate the world beaters from the normal "pros." On bigger pockets with ideal condition, the game simply gets too simple for them (good condition felt, new balls, magic rack). That is the set up they have in the professional pool league in Taiwan, its almost an every day thing where players string together 5-8 racks.
However, for C/B players, bigger pockets will reward the better player.
I think tight pockets is good for practicing alone and forcing yourself to pocket more cleanly (which I think will make a bigger difference at this level of play). However, for playing a match, tight pockets is more of a headache and causes the better players to miss a lot of run outs they're supposed to have - think HardTimes tournaments. The players on the streams there almost always struggle and throw multiple games away because of the tight pockets. However it is a blessing when top pros come and make them look like buckets.
I am very surprised when I read something like this. Please understand that I have been away from playing for more than 35 years. I quit in my early 20’s. There are things that never change. When you tighten the pockets, you change the percentages. The game changes and strategies change.
A 95% shot might become a 90% shot. Example: suppose at the beginning of a rack, the balls laid in such a way that every shot was going to be a 95% shot. The player would be an overwhelming favorite to get out. If the pockets were tightened slightly and every shot became a 90% shot (just 5% less), the player would become an overwhelming favorite to NOT get out. An accomplished player is acutely aware of this and changes his strategy to match the condition and improve his percentages. He does this by changing his shot selection, the way he hits the cue ball, the way he plays position, and safety play. A good safe, earning a ball in hand, could turn his next two shots into 100% shots or a combo on the pay-ball. Another strategy to improve percentages would be to go for the combo or carom on the money ball in the early part of the game.
I am not trying to get under your skin. If you don’t like this post, just ignore it. It doesn't matter.
While I agree that rooms should not put in all tight pocket tables, I know practicing on a tight pocket table for long periods of time will improve most players all around play. Most people overlook one thing a top player does compared to others is getting closer to the next ball, and plays better angles/patterns. When you practice on a tight table, you have to learn to play better angles and stay closer to the next ball to play well.
I like the rules he has. Our local poolroom also has these rules, along with no wearing your pants around your knee's.