Can't do a draw shot to save my life

[PaulHarvey]

I haven't read all the posts, so someone may have already shared this tid-bit: Take a stripe ball, and make sure it is really clean. Set the ball so the stripe is horizontal with your playing surface. The bottom line of the stripe color is your aiming point. Chalk your cue really well; more than usual, so it is caked on the tip. Now cue the striped ball, aiming for the bottom color line. Then, check the stripe for the chalk mark, and see exactly where you are making contact. Also, make sure your bridge is closer to the cue ball; really close. It will feel a little weird. This will help, and you can gradually move to a natural bridge length after you're drawing consistently. I really don't think you are striking the cue ball where you think. Use a stripe.

Josh

Thanks. I've done what you describe and you are correct: I am not hitting the QB where I'm aiming. I believe consistency is one of my biggest problems. I'm workin on it though.

Thanks,
Harvey

 

[PaulHarvey]

Harvey...While I saw you using a stripe for your CB, I never once saw you look at the stripe to see where the chalk mark ended up.

I wasn't using chalk during the video. I wanted to keep the file size as small as possible. I usually chalk between each shot.

I suspect you're not striking the CB where you think you are, but also suspect there are other issues (tight grip and grip placement on the cue, among them). The reasons why you're not drawing the ball can be many, as Bob Jewett mentioned.

Oh yeah, I'm sure it's a combination of just about everything. I'm all over the place on this stuff: stance, grip, stroke, aim, etc. And it seems the more I concentrate on it, the worse I shoot :/

Again, one lesson with a qualified instructor (one who uses video analysis) would do wonders for you.

I've looked; can't find one in Dayton or anywhere close. :shrug:

Thanks for the help!
Harvey

 

[Buster8001]

Thanks. I've done what you describe and you are correct: I am not hitting the QB where I'm aiming. I believe consistency is one of my biggest problems. I'm workin on it though.

Thanks,
Harvey

Hey, no problem Paul. I know a lot of guys are telling you to get a hold of a quality instructor; I can agree with that, but sometimes it just isn't in the cards. I'm available for a phone conversation if you want. I was in your exact situation at one time, and was able to work out of it. I talked to a lot of people, many of whom are better players than me, but not necessarily instructors. I'll share everything I've learned if you have the time.

Shoot me a PM if you are interested, and we'll work something out.

Josh

 

[Scott Lee]

PaulHarvey...check your PM's.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I wasn't using chalk during the video. I wanted to keep the file size as small as possible. I usually chalk between each shot.




Oh yeah, I'm sure it's a combination of just about everything. I'm all over the place on this stuff: stance, grip, stroke, aim, etc. And it seems the more I concentrate on it, the worse I shoot :/



I've looked; can't find one in Dayton or anywhere close. :shrug:

Thanks for the help!
Harvey

 

[DennyS]

Hi Paul if you need help I'm located in Toledo, Ohio. For more info email at > ohiopoolschool@yahoo.com .
Thanks Denny

 

[dr9ball]

Can you help? I'd really like to get this before I'm too old to stand at the table!

Thanks!
Harvey

Harvey,

I grabed a still shot of the moment just before you make contact on the 10 ball (31 seconds into the video). Here you can see that you are hitting just below centerball. This is a good spot to hit if you want to hit a stop shot but for draw you will need to contact the cue ball lower. If you can make the top of your tip hit the bottom of the stripe I believe you'll get the draw you're looking for. I hope this helps you see better what you're doing.

 

[PaulHarvey]

Thank you doctor!

I've long suspected I might not be hitting as low as I thought. Often I try to compensate and end up miscuing and giving the CB a ride on the stick. But I'm gettin' better and occasionally do get some draw.

Thanks again!
Harvey

 

[Mikjary]

Harvey,

I grabed a still shot of the moment just before you make contact on the 10 ball (31 seconds into the video). Here you can see that you are hitting just below centerball. This is a good spot to hit if you want to hit a stop shot but for draw you will need to contact the cue ball lower. If you can make the top of your tip hit the bottom of the stripe I believe you'll get the draw you're looking for. I hope this helps you see better what you're doing.

That pic shows that you have a rope tied to your cue stick. That might be messin' with your stroke, too. :thumbup: Good luck...some good comments from some knowledgeable posters.

Best,
Mike

 

[PaulHarvey]

The rope helps me keep the cue straight

Hey, maybe I oughta try that.

Seriously, you're right: the comments are great and helped me a lot. I'm doing much better now, my sanity is slowly returning. I think.

 

[One Pocket John]

This may help Paul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83B4lGnQJAE

Give it a try.

John

 

[randyg]

This might help even more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqqakiKbhHI




Any thing by Fargo Billiards is excellent material.

randyg

 

[backplaying]

In the last two or so days I've tried twice to post a video, both as an attachment and as a link. Neither post got posted.

I want to thank all who gave comments, suggestions and tips. I'm working on them.

The video I'm trying to post shows my attempts. Is there a way to do this?

Thanks,
Harvey

EDIT:

Okay, some suggested I up the vid to YouTube. So I did. Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ppKhgJjjBQ

You are hitting more toward the center, which will stun the ball. You seem to also be lunging at the ball. Put the ball a couple of feet away chalk the tip completely,and use the cueball and aim low enough to try and miscue with a smooth stroke, staying down on the ball until they quit rolling. You also don't have to shoot that hard.

 

[elvicash]

Hi Paul Harvey first of all I would agree Scott Lee is closer than you think as he brings lessons to the players house or home room. He is a great teacher who loves pool and has a simple way to help players play better. Also it appears there is some training available in Dayton I would consider both if I were you.

I would like to point out the contact point of the tip is something you might not have considered. When hit the ball low it is the top of the tip which actually strikes or touches the cue ball. so I want to point out that the bottom of your tip is low on the cue ball but the actual contact point is center or probably even higher due to the dropping of your elbow.

Next you want a tip that has a radius on it perhaps a nickel to a dime radius. You also want plenty of chalk on the tip. Chalk between shots.

The ball will spin with draw if you stroke through the cue ball and impact the cue ball below center. You have the right idea on your video for max draw you want to hit the object ball full. You do not have to kill it so ease up a little on the length of the back-swing perhaps pause for a moment at the end of the back-swing. Now stroke through the cue ball by firing your bicep while floating the elbow meaning not letting your upper arm drop. You need to let the cue work in the grip hand so flare the grip slightly opening it at the back and use light pressure on the cue. If you grip the cue tightly you will see a lot of steering issues. You want to accurately impact the cue ball below center with the tip accelerating into and thru the cue ball.

You can draw the cue ball. Trust me you will draw the cue ball the first day you get a lesson from a good teacher.

 

[FranCrimi]

Thank you doctor!

I've long suspected I might not be hitting as low as I thought. Often I try to compensate and end up miscuing and giving the CB a ride on the stick. But I'm gettin' better and occasionally do get some draw.

Thanks again!
Harvey

From Previous posts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Hello Harvey,

Are you sure you're hitting the cue ball low enough? A lot of people are afraid of ripping the cloth so they strike the ball a little too high. You shouldn't have to strike the ball so hard to get it to draw back a little. Aim lower on the cue ball. Best of luck with your game.

Thanks Fran. Yes, I know I've hit the ball low enough. I know because I've hit it every possible fraction of an inch below center, including low enough to gouge the cloth and send the CB flying off the table.

Not giving up though

Thanks again,
Harvey

Glad to hear you've decided that you're not hitting the ball low enough. I'm sure that's a main issue for you in being able to draw the ball.

 

[Neil]

From Previous posts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Hello Harvey,

Are you sure you're hitting the cue ball low enough? A lot of people are afraid of ripping the cloth so they strike the ball a little too high. You shouldn't have to strike the ball so hard to get it to draw back a little. Aim lower on the cue ball. Best of luck with your game.

Thanks Fran. Yes, I know I've hit the ball low enough. I know because I've hit it every possible fraction of an inch below center, including low enough to gouge the cloth and send the CB flying off the table.

Not giving up though

Thanks again,
Harvey

Glad to hear you've decided that you're not hitting the ball low enough. I'm sure that's a main issue for you in being able to draw the ball.

Harvey, I don't think you are hitting it as low as you think you are. But, let's assume you are right about that. There is one other thing that can cause you to lose the spin on the cb....try this- look at where you want to hit the cb. Place your tip right at the exact spot. Then bring your cue back very slowly, making sure you stay on the same line all the way back. Then, start your cue back forward slowly for an inch or two to make sure you are staying on the same line. Then pick up speed with your cue to the desired speed. Forget the cb is even there at this point, just finish your stroke. That means just follow through until your cue comes to it's natural stopping point.

Try that and see what happens. Remember, once you bring the cue back, you don't need the cb anymore. Your stroke brings the cue back to where you want to hit the cb. You might be hitting the cb and not shooting through the cb.

When you hit the cb instead of going through it, you most likely are slowing down on the way to the cb, thereby not getting the proper speed to create spin on the cb. You don't need to hit it hard, just what is called "pure".

 

[PaulHarvey]

This may help Paul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83B4lGnQJAE

Give it a try.

John

Thanks! I'm getting quite good at jump shots with this Still not consistent though. I sometimes get stop shots and draw.

 

[PaulHarvey]

This might help even more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqqakiKbhHI
Any thing by Fargo Billiards is excellent material.
randyg

Thank you, Sir!

There are some things in this video that confuse me though.

1) In his drawing of the "theoretical miscue limit" (about 2:30 into the vid), the six o'clock position of the circle appears way higher than where I've been told countless times to hit the QB. And the 'good chalker' and 'lazy chalker' limits are even higher. BTW, I'm a 'good chalker.'

2) The diagrams he shows at 6:50 and 8:16 show a definite downward stroke at contact. This confuses the hell out of me, as everything I've read, seen, and been told is the stroke should be level. And at 7:30 he advises to try a shorter bridge. I tried both together and was able to get some draw by hitting down on the QB, but it wasn't much and the OB had to be within inches of the QB or I'd gouge the table.

And with a shorter bridge and a level stroke, I end up hitting the QB a second time unless I jerk back out of the way.

Note: I'm doing some drills on a new stroke and they all entail aiming high for follow. I'm doing very well with the drills so far. It's the first time I've ever been consistent with anything. But when I try to draw using the same stroke, the results are desultory at best. I'm getting real good at jump shots though

All the tips (except the shorter bridge) at 9:40 coincide with this new stroke.

Thanks again. The video is very informative.

Harvey

 

[randyg]

Thank you, Sir!

There are some things in this video that confuse me though.

1) In his drawing of the "theoretical miscue limit" (about 2:30 into the vid), the six o'clock position of the circle appears way higher than where I've been told countless times to hit the QB. And the 'good chalker' and 'lazy chalker' limits are even higher. BTW, I'm a 'good chalker.'

2) The diagrams he shows at 6:50 and 8:16 show a definite downward stroke at contact. This confuses the hell out of me, as everything I've read, seen, and been told is the stroke should be level. And at 7:30 he advises to try a shorter bridge. I tried both together and was able to get some draw by hitting down on the QB, but it wasn't much and the OB had to be within inches of the QB or I'd gouge the table.

And with a shorter bridge and a level stroke, I end up hitting the QB a second time unless I jerk back out of the way.

Note: I'm doing some drills on a new stroke and they all entail aiming high for follow. I'm doing very well with the drills so far. It's the first time I've ever been consistent with anything. But when I try to draw using the same stroke, the results are desultory at best. I'm getting real good at jump shots though

All the tips (except the shorter bridge) at 9:40 coincide with this new stroke.

Thanks again. The video is very informative.

Harvey

You will almost NEVER be able to hit the cue ball a second time.

randyg

 

[One Pocket John]

Thanks! I'm getting quite good at jump shots with this Still not consistent though. I sometimes get stop shots and draw.

Okay Paul, lets try this.

Hold the cue with the index finger pad and thumb pad. No other part of your grip hand can touch the cue. Bring the cue straight back and strike below center on the cue ball.

This is just an exercise to demonstrate how little effort is required to draw the cue ball back after contact with the OB. Space the two balls 12 " apart. As you become efficient at the 12" start increasing the distance between the two balls.

One other thing I should point out is you hit the cue ball with the top shoulder of the cue tip.....not the center (dome) of the tip.

Hang in there :wink:

John

 

[PaulHarvey]

You are hitting more toward the center, which will stun the ball. You seem to also be lunging at the ball. Put the ball a couple of feet away chalk the tip completely,and use the cueball and aim low enough to try and miscue with a smooth stroke, staying down on the ball until they quit rolling. You also don't have to shoot that hard.

Thanks! I've recently learned a new way of stroking that addresses pretty much all of what you mention. Still getting inconsistent results though. And at a few feet away, anything goes :/