Outrageous Ruling at Hard Times TADCUP

[Tony_in_MD]

Did you have direct involvement in this or are you just reporting what you had heard from another source?

Before anybody is tarred and feathered all facts should be known.

Today was the 4th annual TADCUP amateur handicapped 9 ball tournament at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA. 96 player field, double elimination 9 ball, races to 7 & 5.

In the very first round, Player A is spotting Player B the 8 ball. Player A is rated a 9, Player B a 7. Match begins and Player B defeats Player A 7-1. After losing, Player A complains to the tournament director that his rating should be 8, not 9 (he is at a 9 level, and a source overheard Player A say 2 days ago he feels it is a good rating).

Tournament director declines the rating shift, stating he feels the rating is accurate and fair. Player A is adamant, saying he would have won had he been rated lower. So what does Player A do? He complains to the event promoter, a close friend of his, and asks NOT ONLY to be brought down to a level 8, BUT THAT HE BE ALLOWED TO REPLAY HIS MATCH!

Because the event promoter is his friend, he allows it, and the match is replayed. Player B is a very nice, quiet type. Although he is furious about the call, he obliges and replays the match, only to LOSE this time 7-3! This score stays, and the tournament director reluctantly moves Player A to the next round on the winner's side, and Player B to the loser's.

This is infuriating for several reasons:

First, Player A is CLEARLY a level 9. I'm a level 9, and I know we play even.

Second, arguing that your rating is inaccurate should be done PRIOR to your match starting.

Third, once the tournament director voices his inclination to bring rating down/replay match, IT SHOULD STICK. The event promoter's job is to promote the event and get sponsors. That's why you have a tournament director - to handle these matters.

It is outrageous that this happened, and Player B ended up losing his very next match and went home. If it had been anyone else, there would have been chaos. Player A took full advantage of Player B's quiet nature and the event promoter's friendship to get him through the next round.

Has anyone else had this happen? Sounds ludicrous..

 

[Diamond69]

Very simple. Handicaps should NEVER be changed during a tournament, up or down. If you're unknown, you play with a higher handicap. If you don't like it, don't play. If you're a recent local or player, you're handicap will be lowered based on plays and results of previous tournaments.

 

[Wright Shot]

Ummm, yeah....no , that aint gonna happen.

If I'm player "b" I tell the guy, politely of course, that I don't give a rats ass what he does with players "a"s rating because it's none of my business.

What is however my business, is that "w" I just secured and I will be keeping that as is,
kthnksbye.

I mean what is dude gonna do if "b" just laughs it off? (like I would have)

I agree 100%. And I Love your avatar! GO GAMECOCKS!!

Chris

 

[CrossSideLarry]

8 vs 9

Is there really much difference in skills between the two ratings?

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

There are so many things that one could about this. Its just plain wrong on so many levels.

I would go with what Fran N said. Player B should have asked/demanded his money back
and walked.

No doubt that the story circulated that day. Thats no way to bring in future players.

Player A should be ashamed that he would use his pull to do that. No sense of fair play.
He should have sucked it back and played the best he can whether he was rated incorrect or not.

 

[Mickey Qualls]

Assuming The Recollection Of The Incident Is Accurate...

This is fugged up on all levels.

Both the promoter and Player A need a swift kick in the a$$. But the TD gets a slap in the back of the head (a la NCIS-Gibbs style) for letting the rematch take place.

Player B, however...

... Player B is a very nice, quiet type. Although he is furious about the call, he obliges and replays the match...

If I were Player B, I would have slow played it (the conversation). And loud enough for the neighboring tables to hear that conversation...

"Wait a minute. You want me to replay a match that I just won ??"

"Well, isn't that going to hold up the tournament, if we play again ??"

"Explain to me again why we have to replay the match that I just won."

"I don't understand. I have a good match, my opponent has a not-so-good match, and you want me to replay the match ???"

"I guess I'm not understanding why I have to replay a match against an opponent that I just beat."

"What if I say that I refuse to replay the match ??"

To a player on a neighboring table : "Is this how this tournament works ? Can you be forced to replay a match if your opponent isn't happy with the outcome ??"

And if all of the above had not shut the 'rematch' discussion down, then I would have demanded ALL my money back (greens fees and/or coins for the table if applicable). Now.

Not tomorrow, not 'later when the _____ gets here'. Now.

Mickey <--- Hates stories like these, but if it helps the next guy it happens to...

 

[ENGLISH!]

I agree with the general consensus. Player B should have had his cue in hand ready to play in the winner's side & when he was told of the decision to reply the match with player A he should have broken down his cue & said, 'I won fair & square & now you are saying that I did not win. I don't play with cheaters or in tournaments that have any part in cheating & I will let everyone know about how so & so runs a cheating tournament.'

Don't ask for money back & leave. Stay & spread the word ASAP. Encourage others to stand up for fair play. There is more power in numbers than standing alone.

I also agree that we need to know the names of these 'guys' that keep pulling pools reputation down lower & lower.

Who are these guys? They need to be embarrassed, if that is even possible. Usually people like that can't be embarrassed. They usually have no respect for honesty & fair play. They only care about what they can get for themselves & really have no honor or moral character to cause embarrassment for bad behavior.

But, we need to know who they are regardless.

 

[fast&loose designs]

Did you have direct involvement in this or are you just reporting what you had heard from another source?

Before anybody is tarred and feathered all facts should be known.

I was not "directly" involved, but got it straight from Player B and TD.

 

[Txstang1]

If I was player B, I was have gone smooth off. I would not ever replay a match. period. The TD would have had to do something else, because that match wouldn't happen again.

there wouldn't have been a single person in that pool room who didn't know exactly what was going on. In fact, I would have probably been kicked out.

 

[dabarbr]

Unbelievable! I was there yesterday as a spectator so this must have happened after I left.
Player B was either too timid to stand up for what is right or he has a lot more class than I do to agree to play the match over. Something like this should never happen.

 

[ignomirello]

Should have never been re-played

 

[ENGLISH!]

Unbelievable! I was there yesterday as a spectator so this must have happened after I left.
Player B was either too timid to stand up for what is right or he has a lot more class than I do to agree to play the match over. Something like this should never happen.

It's not about one's level of 'class'. It's about taking up for what is right & fair & standing up to what is wrong & unfair. One can do it & still retain one's 'class'.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[PoolBum]

This story infuriates me. I can't imagine a story that anyone could even make up that would piss me off more.

It reminds me of a situation I ran into in jr high school. I've never had a reason to share this story to anyone so thanks for letting me get this off my chest.

I entered a monopoly tournament at the local library. I made it to the "final table." I have hotels on all the green and blue properties. It's a slam dunk. As I'm waiting for the last player to meet their demise the "tournament director" stops the game to say that we are going to restart the game because her daughter claims I may have cheated.

Her daughter had been eliminated by the hotel on Boardwalk. I demand to know how I cheated. The daughter bashfully says that our "money" may have gotten tangled up and I may have "stolen" some of her money. I say, "So she isn't even sure if I stole her money????"

The TD just keeps saying that there is enough question to where we are just going to restart the game.

My protest was to buy enough properties and sell them to the guy that I liked, dirt cheap and left the room, slamming the door hard. The TD ran out demanding to know my parents' number to which I declined.

End of random story.

Well, since we're swapping stories...something similar happened to me once as well.

One year when I was a teenager I competed in The Midwest Racing Series, a series of bike races sponsored by The Louisville Wheelmen. One of the first races in the series was a time trial in Cherokee Park in Louisville. When I came across the finish line the race director/time keeper realized that I had the fastest time for my age group, and then decided that because I had the fastest time I must not have ridden the course correctly. I was told that I would need to do my ride over.

I was young (I think I was 13 at the time) and didn't know any better, or else I would have protested and told them I did ride the course correctly. Frankly, there was no way I couldn't have, because I had never ridden in that park before and I would have no idea of how to take any kind of shortcut. It was a hilly, winding course and I would have simply gotten lost if I'd taken a wrong turn at some point.

So, I rode the course again, and went the exact same route I did the first time, and needless to say was slower the second time around. I forget in which place I finished, but I don't think it was even in the top 5. I would go on to win a few races that season, and finish 3rd in the overall standings for my age group.

 

[dabarbr]

Ok, I just got a bit more of the story. How true this is remains to be proven.
It seems that the first match was played with the wrong spot being given. Player A, instead of giving up the 8 should have being giving up the last two. Player B made the eight with some combos in the match. If this is true then I can see replaying the match. Some times we need to hear all of the story.

 

[fast&loose designs]

Ok, I just got a bit more of the story. How true this is remains to be proven.
It seems that the first match was played with the wrong spot being given. Player A, instead of giving up the 8 should have being giving up the last two. Player B made the eight with some combos in the match. If this is true then I can see replaying the match. Some times we need to hear all of the story.

Player A says wrong spot was given because he felt his rating was too high, which it wasn't. Ratings were accurate. A 9 playing a 7 gives the 8 ball, and combos are legal. I know both players' speed very well, as do most of the regulars at Hard Times. Weight given was fair. Replaying the match not fair.

 

[fast&loose designs]

Ok, I just got a bit more of the story. How true this is remains to be proven.
It seems that the first match was played with the wrong spot being given. Player A, instead of giving up the 8 should have being giving up the last two. Player B made the eight with some combos in the match. If this is true then I can see replaying the match. Some times we need to hear all of the story.

Don't imply I didn't give all the story. The things you mentioned are consistent with what I said. 8 ball was given as weight, Player A didn't like it, so he says bring me down to a level 8 so I can give him the last 2 instead.

 

[sheffield6]

This story infuriates me. I can't imagine a story that anyone could even make up that would piss me off more.

It reminds me of a situation I ran into in jr high school. I've never had a reason to share this story to anyone so thanks for letting me get this off my chest.

I entered a monopoly tournament at the local library. I made it to the "final table." I have hotels on all the green and blue properties. It's a slam dunk. As I'm waiting for the last player to meet their demise the "tournament director" stops the game to say that we are going to restart the game because her daughter claims I may have cheated.

Her daughter had been eliminated by the hotel on Boardwalk. I demand to know how I cheated. The daughter bashfully says that our "money" may have gotten tangled up and I may have "stolen" some of her money. I say, "So she isn't even sure if I stole her money????"

The TD just keeps saying that there is enough question to where we are just going to restart the game.

My protest was to buy enough properties and sell them to the guy that I liked, dirt cheap and left the room, slamming the door hard. The TD ran out demanding to know my parents' number to which I declined.

End of random story.

you rascal

 

[dabarbr]

Don't imply I didn't give all the story. The things you mentioned are consistent with what I said. 8 ball was given as weight, Player A didn't like it, so he says bring me down to a level 8 so I can give him the last 2 instead.

If you have given us the complete story ( I think some where you mentioned that you overheard) then the only way the match could be played over is if the TD gave them the wrong spot to play with in the first match. That's if he said to play with the eight ball and not the last two. But should have been the last two.

 

[fast&loose designs]

If you have given us the complete story ( I think some where you mentioned that you overheard) then the only way the match could be played over is if the TD gave them the wrong spot to play with in the first match. That's if he said to play with the eight ball and not the last two. But should have been the last two.

Have you not read at all what I wrote? Player A is a level 9. Player B is a 7. Therefore, Player A spots Player B the 8 ball, which is what was announced, and is accurate. Player B defeated Player A with this handicap, and Player A didn't like it. So he asked the event promoter to not only change his rating SO THAT HE CAN GIVE THE LAST 2 INSTEAD OF THE 8, and it was granted. How have I not given all the facts? The TD did his job. Seems Player A is a friend of yours.

 

[flyvirginiaguy]

Handicapped tourneys STINK !

Yes they do. A match in my last attended handicap event I lost 10-4. Me having to get to 11 and opponent 4. Where is the benefits of working your a** off at getting better for years? So you can spot more? I don't play handicap tourneys anymore. Nor do I think it is good for pool. It is just a way to scheme out a win.