Ya well they need something to keep those diamonds in there unless they have another fire
1
The REAL problem with pool
- Thread starter Jerry Forsyth
- Start date
Ya well they need something to keep those diamonds in there unless they have another fire
1
I feel a big problem is not getting the youth participating enough. If room owners just took a Saturday or Sunday during the slow day hours and have free pool for kids under 16 we could see some new money. All other sports encourage youth to play them and we know few will become professional athletes but they usually become life long fans and spend thousands of dollars in their lifetime on merchandise and other things.
it's AMAZING what a "female friendly" environment will do to enhance overall business
Yes, very few pool rooms even know how to cater to women, they don't "real eyes" they are the key that unlocks the door to prosperity.
We've done a lot of market research on this topic and it's AMAZING what a "female friendly" environment will do to enhance overall business. And the jukebox does much more damage than imaginable to the overall concept - people will tend to stay less time, spend much less and come back less frequently (which leads to thousands in lost business, and repeat customers) ....besides those drawbacks jukeboxes are awesome, they bring in 600-700 a month.
The bars and the poolrooms are 2 different animals in this area.
the bars are out in the country, the poolrooms are in the city.
Both have leagues.
The bars have pool B/C its all they do around here (drink & play pool)
The poolroom(s) rely on food & beverage sales.
There aren't too many attractive women in either place.
I go to the poolroom to play the players. Attractive women are just eye-candy <----- Did I really just say that ?!?
I go to the bars to have a few and bang some with league players. There is only 2 bars (currently) I'll get/play action .
I guess bottom line it does indeed boil-down to "who" your customer base is made from.
Great posts CJ ! :thumbup:
Yes, very few pool rooms even know how to cater to women, they don't "real eyes" they are the key that unlocks the door to prosperity.
We've done a lot of market research on this topic and it's AMAZING what a "female friendly" environment will do to enhance overall business. And the jukebox does much more damage than imaginable to the overall concept - people will tend to stay less time, spend much less and come back less frequently (which leads to thousands in lost business, and repeat customers) ....besides those drawbacks jukeboxes are awesome, they bring in 600-700 a month.
Recently, one of the best pool rooms in the area (Snookers in RI) raised their all day special prices by a couple of bucks. 12-6 (maybe 11:30), you could play for $12 instead of $10. I was told that most of the players stopped coming there, and the owner soon reverted back to the old prices and maybe even lowered them. Sad when you get a revolution over a 33 cent an hour price increase. Then again, some of those guys will spend an hour making a gambling set for $10 and then complain the whole time they are playing how it's unfair and then quit.
Yes, very few pool rooms even know how to cater to women, they don't "real eyes" they are the key that unlocks the door to prosperity.
We've done a lot of market research on this topic and it's AMAZING what a "female friendly" environment will do to enhance overall business. And the jukebox does much more damage than imaginable to the overall concept - people will tend to stay less time, spend much less and come back less frequently (which leads to thousands in lost business, and repeat customers) ....besides those drawbacks jukeboxes are awesome, they bring in 600-700 a month.
I totally agree, CJ. I've been saying all along that women won't hang around where there are men acting badly, and if you add a jukebox to the mix, which only seems to appeal to young kids who don't mind having their eardrums damaged --- Say good bye to decent men and women as customers.
When I see a juke box in a pool room, I usually don't bother going in because I know the owner is targeting another type of customer. I wish him luck with that choice, because a lot of kids can't spend much money.
the real estate boom has hurt pool, its too expensive now.
there are not enuff kids coming up to replace the old farts dieing off, its attrition. Thats the real problem
Video games, Facebook and internet havent helped either.
in the 70's and 80's everyone was taking pills and coke gambling and did nothing to promote pool to kids back then, so now there are not many pool players under 40.
times change, things come and go, pinball is just about history too, a wonderful game.
Disco is gone........so goes lots of other things in life.
Yes, very few pool rooms even know how to cater to women, they don't "real eyes" they are the key that unlocks the door to prosperity.
We've done a lot of market research on this topic and it's AMAZING what a "female friendly" environment will do to enhance overall business. And the jukebox does much more damage than imaginable to the overall concept - people will tend to stay less time, spend much less and come back less frequently (which leads to thousands in lost business, and repeat customers) ....besides those drawbacks jukeboxes are awesome, they bring in 600-700 a month.
your right about that, pool rooms that make girls feel comfortable do much better than hardcore gambling joints. That however aint going to salvage pool. Its good on the micro level not the macro level.
Some of the more memorable rooms I've visited -- like Comet and Mr Cues -- have had classic rock piped in and playing softly in the background. That's preferable to some of the stuff people pay to listen to at ear-splitting levels at many spots.
Lou Figueroa
Yes, very few pool rooms even know how to cater to women, they don't "real eyes" they are the key that unlocks the door to prosperity.
We've done a lot of market research on this topic and it's AMAZING what a "female friendly" environment will do to enhance overall business. And the jukebox does much more damage than imaginable to the overall concept - people will tend to stay less time, spend much less and come back less frequently (which leads to thousands in lost business, and repeat customers) ....besides those drawbacks jukeboxes are awesome, they bring in 600-700 a month.
CJ,
You are correct....again.:wink:
When my Dad first introduced me to the game in 1968 when I was 13 he first took me to a bowling alley that had a couple of tables. The problem was that if they were both occupied, we had to wait too long to get a table.
So, he then he took me to a hall that had a 'couples only room' & asked the owner if he could take me in that room. The owner allowed it.
The point is that a guy could not take a lady into a pool hall without all the you know what that would happen & a probable fight. This owner 'real eyesed' back then that 'couples' were a kinder gentler clientele with much less hassles.
That owner was ahead of the times.
Best to Ya'.
Rick
People get tired of me complaining about certain loud music I'm sure, but like I've said before, I'm sure not the only one that certain music can run off. CJ said it's a mistake to let a few people dictate the music being played and he's spot on! When I use to see the poolrooms full everywhere, there was not one jukebox in any of them.
Yep, and I can't recall one person ever complaining about classic rock played at a normal level.
Let me be the first:
"I'm so sick of the same old played out songs for the past 20+ years, I never want to hear them again" NEW MUSIC PLEASE!!!!!
there I'm finished. and its true, Classic my ass-played out is what it is. I cant stand hearing the same song over 5,000 times
About five years ago I was in Mr Cues in Atlanta.
It's a huge place and there's maybe two dozen tables going, guys playing throughout the room and there's the piped in classic rock. Otherwise, not a sound, other than pool balls.
It's mid-afternoon and the next song that comes up on the sound system is "Roxanne" by The Police. There's that very distinctive opening set of repeating guitar chords and drum. And then... after the guitar chords and the drum stop... at just the right moment... half a dozen guys in the pool room break out in a falsetto and sing out "Roxanne" all across the pool room.
Then, there's nothing but dead silence for a second
Sting goes on to sing about no red dress tonight.
And then, muted giggles pop out from across the pool room, as everyone realizes what had just happened.
Lou Figueroa
Just go to Q-Masters in Va. Beach to see how a poolroom should be. (1996 Q-Masters had 38 tables, 2005 they had 53 tables, 2013 they have 75 tables)
1. Great well maintained equipment.
2. Clean well maintained bathrooms
3. Awesome Food, fully stocked bar, good prices
4. Nice specials, buy lunch 1hr. free pool, buy dinner 1 hr. free pool, Tuesdays (Military appreciation day) Active Duty, Retired Military and their dependents shoot for free
5. Friendly Staff with young, beautiful Waitresses
6. Pro shop (Dave Bollman) cue sales, repairs, lessons
7. NO Jukebox, music is controlled by the house usually Classic Rock and a Med./Low level to drowned out distractions of others while you play.
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It's a catch 22. A pool room has a very high % fixed cost. The variable cost is negligible by comparison. Very similar to a golf course. Volume is everything. You make money off of " monied" people. Problem is, the per square foot cost of floor space in and around higher tier demographics is substantially higher. The more well to do Customers you want to attract aren't going to the seedier areas to play pool. The pool halls can't get a high enough pool fee to justify locating in the nicer areas. Bottom line, I think it will become increasingly more difficult for a pool only/primarily business to survive.
Out of that 21 million pool playing number, what % are primarily league players? I'll bet it is 75% or higher. Assuming that is true, the answer is rather obvious, I.e., you have to figure out how to attract and profit from the leagues. Unfortunately, that still leaves the challenge of how to create revenue from 10 am to 7 pm.
I think one thing that needs to happen is for the facility to be vertical to decrease the per sq foot cost. Perhaps the 2nd story is primarily the more hard core pool where the first story may have a smaller number of bar boxes. That facility needs to be located in a reasonably nice, safe location near enough to the higher end demographic so the money will find it easy to go there. With that said, it must offer alcohol, good quality "bar food" and excellent service. The owner has to be creative. How about afternoon retiree leagues? How about a Monday afternoon Women's league?
My experience in business is if you offer a good product with great service in a decent, accessible, safe location, you will prosper. To be absolutely blunt, most pool rooms I've seen don't come across as being very friendly to your casual pool player. They're generally located in areas I wouldn't be in for any other reason. The service generally sucks, it would be better if it could be self serve. Here's another way to view it. If that pool hall were a restaurant, in the same location, with the same quality level of food and service, it would be out of business inside of a month. So why should it expect to survive as a pool hall?
Out of that 21 million pool playing number, what % are primarily league players? I'll bet it is 75% or higher. Assuming that is true, the answer is rather obvious, I.e., you have to figure out how to attract and profit from the leagues. Unfortunately, that still leaves the challenge of how to create revenue from 10 am to 7 pm.
I think one thing that needs to happen is for the facility to be vertical to decrease the per sq foot cost. Perhaps the 2nd story is primarily the more hard core pool where the first story may have a smaller number of bar boxes. That facility needs to be located in a reasonably nice, safe location near enough to the higher end demographic so the money will find it easy to go there. With that said, it must offer alcohol, good quality "bar food" and excellent service. The owner has to be creative. How about afternoon retiree leagues? How about a Monday afternoon Women's league?
My experience in business is if you offer a good product with great service in a decent, accessible, safe location, you will prosper. To be absolutely blunt, most pool rooms I've seen don't come across as being very friendly to your casual pool player. They're generally located in areas I wouldn't be in for any other reason. The service generally sucks, it would be better if it could be self serve. Here's another way to view it. If that pool hall were a restaurant, in the same location, with the same quality level of food and service, it would be out of business inside of a month. So why should it expect to survive as a pool hall?
There's a new room in Decatur, Al called Six Pockets, that room owners might want to keep a eye on. He has about 25 Diamonds, all new and spaced apart where you don't have to wait on someone on the next table. He has a full bar and a good menu, as he was in the Restaurant business for many years. Its non- smoking with a nice smoking deck outside. He has a 10.00 entry nine ball tournament ,with Calcutta on Friday night and a 10.00 entry 8 ball with Calcutta on Saturday night and has been having over 30 every time I have went. I don't know what he has going during the week. He also has a lot of nice looking ladies that seem to be regulars already. He has new leather couches along the walls on a built up platform. This is the nicest room I have been to in a long time, and two days a week, all the pool you want to play for 5.00.
Fast Eddies in New Milford, CT
Up here in the eastern NY / western CT areas, an old road player, Eddie Locke, bought up the dilapidated "Busters Billiards and Amusements" in New Milford, CT, and transformed it into a hopping pool hall with meticulously set up Gold Crowns (which are recovered every six months to stay eligible as a stop for Mike Zuglan's Joss tour) and other amenities.
The "other amenities" are actually what sets Fast Eddies -- Eddie Locke's room -- apart from your average run of the mill poolroom. Along with the usual pool leagues, weekly tournaments, professional tournaments, etc., he also has dart leagues (a whole area of the poolroom is dedicated to darts), a fully equipped stage for live bands, probably the best beer, wine, and spirits selection for 50 miles around, and some food.
If you like music, good eats and drinks, and pool, you can come down to Fast Eddies on those days playing the music you like (he puts up a schedule both in house, online at the Fast Eddies website, and on Facebook).
Or, if you like your pool sans music or distractions, he has quiet days and nights as well.
Eddie's trick? *Ask* your patrons what they like, listen, and implement it. Customers love it when they have input into a business, the proprietor listens to them, and the business becomes "localized" to what they like.
-Sean
Up here in the eastern NY / western CT areas, an old road player, Eddie Locke, bought up the dilapidated "Busters Billiards and Amusements" in New Milford, CT, and transformed it into a hopping pool hall with meticulously set up Gold Crowns (which are recovered every six months to stay eligible as a stop for Mike Zuglan's Joss tour) and other amenities.
The "other amenities" are actually what sets Fast Eddies -- Eddie Locke's room -- apart from your average run of the mill poolroom. Along with the usual pool leagues, weekly tournaments, professional tournaments, etc., he also has dart leagues (a whole area of the poolroom is dedicated to darts), a fully equipped stage for live bands, probably the best beer, wine, and spirits selection for 50 miles around, and some food.
If you like music, good eats and drinks, and pool, you can come down to Fast Eddies on those days playing the music you like (he puts up a schedule both in house, online at the Fast Eddies website, and on Facebook).
Or, if you like your pool sans music or distractions, he has quiet days and nights as well.
Eddie's trick? *Ask* your patrons what they like, listen, and implement it. Customers love it when they have input into a business, the proprietor listens to them, and the business becomes "localized" to what they like.
-Sean
Very good post.
Yes, happily married or not, most men like to be in the presence of attractive females and if they are not around they {at least unconsciously} know they could spend their time in "better" places. Doing EVERYTHING you can do to provide outstanding service to the female clientele is the "secret" to success.....ignore this and you're missing out.
I know there are some that will scorn this simple marketing plan, and that's fine, I do understand why. From the pure business end what I'm saying is profound in it's effectiveness. Women are the key to the billiard club business, plain and simple.
If your pool room isn't doing well I don't even have to look inside, I can tell you that you don't have enough attractive women. I can also guess that your bathrooms aren't "women friendly" and that probably goes for your menu, music (please don't tell me you have a jukebox), it's the "kiss of death" to let your customers control the music/atmosphere).
I wouldn't take ANY amount of money to have a jukebox - in effect, you're handing over the "keys" of your atmosphere to anyone with a quarter.And no, it doesn't matter how good the music is on the jukebox or that it has an automatic element that keeps the music from stopping. There's no excuse for not controlling the music, yet this vital component is so often neglected. I can discuss for an hour why music is so important.
The management is key to maintaining a healthy, safe environment for the ladies - lude, sexist behavior can NOT be tolerated in any way, shape or form. 'The Attraction Game is the Teacher'
Along with there being more singles now than anytime in history. I agree, the ladies will bring in the men.