14.1 ----101

Fran,

Your holier-than-thou attitude does far more damage to the game than any terminology differences. "Race" is not incorrect. It may not be as traditional, but it is clear and applicable in the context.

By starting this thread, titling it "14.1 101," and mentioning "respect for the game" in your first post, you offended me personally. You could have made the exact same point by suggesting, politely, that the preferred term is "XXX point game." I still would have disagreed with you (see, e.g., the World Tournament's charts), but I would not be taking it personally.

I don't need you questioning my respect for this game or any aspect of pocket billiards. I expect that kind of attitude would turn off a lot of new straight pool players, and that is exactly the last thing this game needs. You may want to check that attitude if you intend to be an ambassador for any pocket billiards game.
 
FranCrimi said:
Ha! If everyone would just remember: Permanent score on the left, rack score on the right, there would be no problem.

But nobody remembers, and you have to figure out who's putting what score on what side. LOL

Plus, I love the ones with the stripped gears that just keep on spinning.... or the ones with the stuck gears where you need a crowbar just to move it one digit.
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Even better: the ones where moving one counter... moves the other.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Even better: the ones where moving one counter... moves the other.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Lol those are the ones I'm familiar with. It makes keeping the rack score and total score very difficult. What we usually do instead is the person not shooting keeps track of the run (like a referee) and just adds it to the total at the end of the inning.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
I have a nice set of antique beads that I restored. They're sitting under my table because I'm not exactly sure how to keep score with them. Is there a tutorial somewhere on AZ that tells you how?

Every pool room I've ever been to has beads over the tables. Maybe an East Coast thing? I use them in my own inimitable fashion, just because they are so traditional (yes, tradition matters to me a bunch). Plus, I just love that zing! sound as you slide them over on the wire after your run.
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It can get tricky learning to use the beads, especially when you have to go around again to continue the tally. Back in the day when everyone was playing 14.1, most pool rooms would have at least a few tables with beads strung up over the tables. Some pool rooms had beads at every table.

As you score, you push beads to the middle but not all the way over. You opponent does the same thing. That represents the rack score. Your beads in the middle plus your opponents beads in the middle plus the number of balls left on the table should total 15.

After the rack is over, the person racking gets the courtesy of checking both sides and pushing both sides of beads over to the permanent score. The center is the clear and ready for a new rack.

Scratches are taken off the permanent side, so one bead is pushed from the permanent side to the middle, and then, one is pushed back from the middle to the beads yet to be scored.

Someone should make a youtube tutorial and post it. I will if I have the time.
 
14-1StraightMan said:
Hey Sean..... you're crazy!.... LOL... playing games again. I could not believe that I spelled Beads wrong on my comment. So, I went back and took a look. Spelled it correctly and you added a "L"..... I should of figured.

The way I learned to keep score on the wheel counters was the rack score goes to the left and total score goes on the right (each player has their own counter). Just like we read from left to right.

We would say...... I'll take the right & you take the left. Playing a match to 150.
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Yes, I've come across that too, where some of the players would put the rack scores on the left and the permanent scores on the right. My experience has been more the other way around. But the counters were definitely never referred to as 'inside and outside'. It was always 'left and right'.
 
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14-1StraightMan said:
Hey Sean..... you're crazy!.... LOL... playing games again. I could not believe that I spelled Beads wrong on my comment. So, I went back and took a look. Spelled it correctly and you added a "L"..... I should of figured.
[...]
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:D Sorry Mike (and Lou), but I couldn't resist that. When the topic of "beads" came up, for some reason that blooper between Burt Reynolds and Dean Martin in the Cannonball Run immediately popped into my head. And I chuckled -- which is contagious following Bob J.'s witty humor concerning the use of the scoring wheels.

Yep, I'm a nutcase when it comes to off the wall stuff like that. But hey, some levity every now and then is good for the soul.

:thumbup2:
-Sean
 
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I must be a criminal of 2 types

3andstop said:
I think I understand exactly what Fran means. In my mind the term "race to" implies some helter skelter slam banging of balls around to see how they can smash their way to the end faster than the other guy. :D

The damned game of straight pool is an art form of the game. We ain't racing nowhere, we are creating art with each shot, with each rack.

Ha ha ... but that's me ... I can't even stand the term "shape". Get shape on this, get shape on that .... I get position, the shape is still round.
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ummmm,..... I use the term "race to," and also use the term position.

Always thought of position as pin-point. aka within a cue-balls width either way. Consequently, "Shape," would be the zone or area that was desired for good angle on my object ball.
 
FranCrimi said:
It can get tricky learning to use the beads, especially when you have to go around again to continue the tally. Back in the day when everyone was playing 14.1, most pool rooms would have at least a few tables with beads strung up over the tables. Some pool rooms had beads at every table.

As you score, you push beads to the middle but not all the way over. You opponent does the same thing. That represents the rack score. Your beads in the middle plus your opponents beads in the middle plus the number of balls left on the table should total 15.

After the rack is over, the person racking gets the courtesy of checking both sides and pushing both sides of beads over to the permanent score. The center is the clear and ready for a new rack.

Scratches are taken off the permanent side, so one bead is pushed from the permanent side to the middle, and then, one is pushed back from the middle to the beads yet to be scored.

Someone should make a youtube tutorial and post it. I will if I have the time.
Click to expand...


And don't forget: some string of beads are missing a bead or three.

Lou Figueroa
 
Dunnn51 said:
ummmm,..... I use the term "race to," and also use the term position.

Always thought of position as pin-point. aka within a cue-balls width either way. Consequently, "Shape," would be the zone or area that was desired for good angle on my object ball.
Click to expand...


I hate it when some guys use "shapes" v "shape."

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
I hate it when some guys use "shapes" v "shape."

Lou Figueroa
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What's funny is hearing Bustamante call a shot:

"3 balls, corner"
"5 balls, side"

And overheard during an IPT 8-ball event when Busty consulted a referee about shooting a foul and giving ball-in-hand to his opponent:

"I want to make a foul. If I hit his 11-balls into my 4-balls, I can do that, yes?"

:p
-Sean <-- all funnin' aside, really likes the high run of 143 that Busty ran during the 14.1 championships
 
Maybe Fran hurt some feelings by coming across a little strong. However, I agree with her main point. I always found it irksome when people talk about a race to 100 in straight pool. I never thought much about why it bothered me other than "It just isn't right." I don't care that Dragon calls it a race. That just means they come from a 9 ball background and don't know the difference.

No, it isn't really a big deal, but that doesn't mean Fran should be lectured about how she should worry about bigger issues. I mean, c'mon, this is a billiard forum. Pretty much everything discussed here isn't that important.

Did the snooker players come to the USA and try to learn proper 9 ball terminology? Maybe they tell their friends back in Europe that the correct order in which to "pot" balls is the yellow, blue, red, purple, orange, green, dark red, the black and finally, the yellow stripe. Technically that's correct but how many of us would like that terminology to overtake 9 ball tradition?
 
sfleinen said:
What's funny is hearing Bustamante call a shot:

"3 balls, corner"
"5 balls, side"

And overheard during an IPT 8-ball event when Busty consulted a referee about shooting a foul and giving ball-in-hand to his opponent:

"I want to make a foul. If I hit his 11-balls into my 4-balls, I can do that, yes?"

:p
-Sean <-- all funnin' aside, really likes the high run of 143 that Busty ran during the 14.1 championships
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Obviously has not watched "The Hustler" enough times.

Lou Figueroa
 
Dan White said:
Maybe Fran hurt some feelings by coming across a little strong. However, I agree with her main point. I always found it irksome when people talk about a race to 100 in straight pool. I never thought much about why it bothered me other than "It just isn't right." I don't care that Dragon calls it a race. That just means they come from a 9 ball background and don't know the difference.

No, it isn't really a big deal, but that doesn't mean Fran should be lectured about how she should worry about bigger issues. I mean, c'mon, this is a billiard forum. Pretty much everything discussed here isn't that important.

Did the snooker players come to the USA and try to learn proper 9 ball terminology? Maybe they tell their friends back in Europe that the correct order in which to "pot" balls is the yellow, blue, red, purple, orange, green, dark red, the black and finally, the yellow stripe. Technically that's correct but how many of us would like that terminology to overtake 9 ball tradition?
Click to expand...


Language is a living breathing thing that changes and evolves over time and honestly, "races" as applied to straight pool, does not bother me.

Lou Figueroa
but don't get me started
on cleaning the balls
during a 14.1 run :-)
 
Race is a term meaning games. It always has been. Straight Pool is not a race, in that sense. I could not make a new room owner understand that. He kept asking me how many racks is that when referring to 14.1 scores. It's what 9 ball has done to the game of pool, making everything short games, so to speak. I really don't give a damn, I'll use the more formal terms for Straight Pool and not the informal race term. Do what you please. And, I learned total score on the inside wheel and rack score on the outside. That really doesn't matter either, but that's the way I'll do it.:rolleyes:
 
lfigueroa said:
Language is a living breathing thing that changes and evolves over time and honestly, "races" as applied to straight pool, does not bother me.

Lou Figueroa
but don't get me started
on cleaning the balls
during a 14.1 run :-)
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, Lou and I agree with your basic premise about language. However, have you ever asked yourself the question (regardless of the subject matter), "How did we get to this point? What the heck happened!?"

What happens all to often is that nobody puts the brakes on before it starts to spriral out of control. I enjoy progress just as much as anyone, but it has to make sense. Changing the language just because 9 ball players haven't had any real experience with 14.1 simply isn't good enough of a reason to change the language.

Should we accept ignorance as a legitimate reason for change?
 
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FranCrimi said:
I understand what you're saying, Lou and I agree with your basic premise about language. However, have you ever asked yourself the question (regardless of the subject matter), "How did we get to this point? What the heck happened!?"

What happens all to often is that nobody puts the brakes on before it starts to spriral out of control. I enjoy progress just as much as anyone, but it has to make sense. Changing the language just because 9 ball players haven't had any real experience with 14.1 simply isn't good enough of a reason to change the language.

Should we accept ignorance as a legitimate reason for change?
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Fran,

Clearly you have no idea how language develops and evolves. You are not the language police, nor are you the protector of all things holy about straight pool. Of all the possible things to complain about, you picked the pettiest and most insignificant and you used, and continue to use, an insulting and condescending manner. In addition to being wrong on the substance, your attitude is way out of line.

I will not sit back and have you, or anyone else, question my respect for this game based on the terminology I choose to use.
 
FranCrimi said:
It can get tricky learning to use the beads, especially when you have to go around again to continue the tally. Back in the day when everyone was playing 14.1, most pool rooms would have at least a few tables with beads strung up over the tables. Some pool rooms had beads at every table.

As you score, you push beads to the middle but not all the way over. You opponent does the same thing. That represents the rack score. Your beads in the middle plus your opponents beads in the middle plus the number of balls left on the table should total 15.

After the rack is over, the person racking gets the courtesy of checking both sides and pushing both sides of beads over to the permanent score. The center is the clear and ready for a new rack.

Scratches are taken off the permanent side, so one bead is pushed from the permanent side to the middle, and then, one is pushed back from the middle to the beads yet to be scored.

Someone should make a youtube tutorial and post it. I will if I have the time.
Click to expand...

You forgot about the little known class move to leave a 1-shaft "gap" between the "last rack" beads and the "permanent score" beads so the other player can verify the score before you slap them to the total. Although I never have scoring arguments, I've heard other people definitely have spouts after the beads were slapped over and they felt the score wasn't right.

When tracking a run, you leave a 1-shaft gap between the end of the permanent score and the beginning of the run, which is separate from the beads in the middle - which are clearly separated by a larger gap.

Just wanted to chirp-in just so we have the whole story on beads. Beads are the ONLY way to keep score in 14.1. They're the Lambo of score-keeping, as far as I'm concerned. The only close thing to beads is the 14.1 score keeping app on the appstore (but now you gotta schlepp your iPad to the poolroom or club).

Those wheels suck... all of them. For some reason, I'm always the sucker that gets stuck with the side that doesn't want to turn--- or the one that spins when you blow on it and then when someone leans over that rail to take a shot, they mysteriously go from 34 to 74 and then claim to have always been there.

Like you, I was taught total left, rack right. But, what Bob Jewett said makes so much sense I feel retarded for not realizing that the inside is the move if you're using the wheels. Logic prevails over tradition, imo. Work smarter, not harder.
 
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