Cortland Green Spot #9

[Wedge]

Does anyone have a photo of the spool and/or box that the original Cortland #9 came in. I know it is a long shot but I thought I would ask.

Also does anyone know if it actually said #9 on the spool or box or did it say 27lb test.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Wedge

 

[HereWeGo]

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=288558 - Not green spot but #9 - 27.

 

[Bavafongoul]

The spool should definitely state Cortland Linen #9. I know that to be true because the person I just bought my Cortland Linen #9 from confirmed that the large spool they have in their inventory specifically mentions on the outside of the spool "Cortland Linen #9". They also have a spool of Cortland Linen #12 that I wasn't able to buy because they only had a small amount, This other spool was identified on the outside of the spool "Cortland Linen #12" (black speck version). I was happy to get any and so I bought the #9 but #12 is really what I want and sadly, none is to be found.

 

[Wedge]

Thanks

Thanks HereWeGo and Bavafongoul for the information. I have an old spool of Cortland Green Spot 27lb Wet Test Dacron. Do you know if any cuemakers used that when the switch was made from Linen to Dacron?

Thanks Again

Weedge

 

[HereWeGo]

If I remember correctly the Dacron line is much harder/sharper than the #9. I don't know if that is the right terminology but it just doesn't feel/look the same when used.

 

[Wedge]

Thanks Again

I wonder how many folks are confusing Linen with Dacron. I suspect that Cortland switched from Linen to Dacron somewhere in the 1950/1960 era. I really wonder how many Bushka, Szamboti, Tasc or Palmers actually had Dacron rather than the outdated Linen. There really isn't a whole lot of info on the Internet

Wedge

 

[Bavafongoul]

Just my take on this but I suspect very much that the Dacron would have a different feel from the original linen material which has a fibre -like quality to it, When I want to restore my wrap's feel, I damp clean and dry the Cortland Linen wraps on my cues. Then a use a 20 oz round, smooth Pilsner glass and friction rub the Cortland Linen. The heat builds up quickly and it's almost like you were ironing the linen and it becomes smooth, even takes on a glossy look but the feel is so incredibly smooth.

I really doubt you could do that with a Dacron base material and as far as I'm concerned, until I verify firsthand that's there no difference assuming of course you can locate Cortland Linen today in any version, the original is the only trustworthy version. It's been used successfully for decades and there's never been a substitute but some Irish Linens can come pretty close. All of my cues, except my Palmer, have Cortland Linen wraps and the custom being made for me right now will also have a Cortland Linen (#9) wrap. Sometimes there's no substitute in life for the original thing and IMO, "original Cortland Linen" just happens to be one of those instances.

 

[Wedge]

Who

Who made the Irish Linen that cue makers used? Cortland Linen was fishing line. Was/is Irish Linen fishing line also?

Wedge

 

[Bavafongoul]

Fishing lines used to be made of three substances: cotton, linen or silk and the lines are either twisted or braided. The twisted lines may be made by hand but the braided version is always machine made. It is spun to order in sizes for different lines Flax is spun into the manufacture of the line for added strength but for fine lines, only the strongest and longest fibres can be used. And a variety of flax may be used for added durability of the line. The exact size of the flax must be maintained throughout the thread and the exact amount of twists used from 2 to 9 must be maintained throughout the thread.

Anyway, as you can see Rayon was never part of the Irish Linen manufacturing process. Although Irish Linen can be used for other purposes, it was extensively used for fishing line material and the advent of modern day chemistry killed the business. For quite a long time now, fishing lines for spinning, spin cast, or bait casting reels are almost entirely made from artificial substances, including nylon, polyvinylidene fluoride (PVDF, and called fluorocarbon), polyethylene, Dacron and Dyneema (UHMWPE). The most common type is monofilament, made of a single strand but ain't no Irish Linen being used as fishing lines for many, many years.

That's why Cortland disappeared and sorry to say, it isn't coming back. It had a unique feel compared with other Irish Linen wraps, including current versions made today like Hurlbert Irish Linens. Even the defunct Blue Mountain linens were not quite up to the quality and feel of Cortland. Hulbert Linens make threads made of cotton, nylon, polyester for a variety of applications from shoe laces, rugs and hooking, embalming threads, juke yarn for electrical wiring and they just also happen to make an Irish Linen pool cue wrap.

Having said all of the above, today's Irish Linen wraps. albeit of very high quality and even durability, just feels different from the original Cortland Linen. I suppose some things are meant to be irreplaceable, i.e., no equivalent, and Cortland Linen is one of those things.

 

[pdcue]

I wonder how many folks are confusing Linen with Dacron. I suspect that Cortland switched from Linen to Dacron somewhere in the 1950/1960 era. I really wonder how many Bushka, Szamboti, Tasc or Palmers actually had Dacron rather than the outdated Linen. There really isn't a whole lot of info on the Internet

Wedge

The exact number of folks who are confusing Linen with line that looks like linen would be ZERO.
The 'not linen' line Cortland sold was Nylon, not Dacron and is slightly harder than barbed wire.
Last time I checked, it was still available.

Cortland sold Irish Linen till 1976 give or take.

Dale

 

[HOB Weert]

Here you go:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=288558

MH
Weert

 

[SC02GTP]

Would it not be a good idea to check your local fishing supply stores for the Cortland. Maybe you could find a spool at a mom and pop store that has it sitting on a stock shelf. You never know what you might find.

 

[PDX]

Cortland #9 also came in blue speck, it was freshwater line where the green speck was saltwater line. Just to add to mix.

If your out line hunting, 27lbs, 9 strands of line is key.

 

[WildWing]

I think it may be time to admit that George Balabushka, among others, may have used more than one type of linen wrap, even among the Cortland line. The attached spool posted earlier in the thread shows a fairly visibly dark green spot linen, with consistent space among the spots. Here is just a sample from Bushka cues from various sites, Proficient Billiards, Classic Cues, and others with various Balabushka cues, with good views of the wrap. They all look original, and they look pretty different, in some cases. Lighter spots than others, which can be explained with cleaning methods, etc. But also different spacing between the green spots. Although difficult to tell, but the thickness looks different among them as well. All the arguing aside, I believe George (and others) may have used various types among the Cortland brand, and even others. I've simply seen too much variation to think otherwise. Enjoy!

 

[TATE]

Does anyone have a photo of the spool and/or box that the original Cortland #9 came in. I know it is a long shot but I thought I would ask.

Also does anyone know if it actually said #9 on the spool or box or did it say 27lb test.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Wedge

Frank,

Thanks for the note. Cortland was truly fishing line they referred to as Irish Linen and was the preferred wrap for cues until the 1970's. I'm pretty sure Balabushka would have only used Cortland brand for his irish Linen wrapped cues.

In the middle 1970's Blue Mountain Industries made an Irish Linen which many cue makers used instead of Cortland because it was cheaper and looked just like Cortland.

Linen was easily pressed, smooth wetting it and pressing it rather hard while spinning, which flattened the thread making it feel smooth. Linen could also be sanded, then wetted and pressed to an almost glass like pressing, which some players preferred.

The synthetic Irish Linen look-a--likes at the time were made from polyester and were rough and couldn't be pressed like linen - so they always had a rougher feel.

Anyway, that's the information I got from my sources over time.

Chris

 

[kvinbrwr]

I think it may be time to admit that George Balabushka, among others, may have used more than one type of linen wrap, even among the Cortland line. The attached spool posted earlier in the thread shows a fairly visibly dark green spot linen, with consistent space among the spots. Here is just a sample from Bushka cues from various sites, Proficient Billiards, Classic Cues, and others with various Balabushka cues, with good views of the wrap. They all look original, and they look pretty different, in some cases. Lighter spots than others, which can be explained with cleaning methods, etc. But also different spacing between the green spots. Although difficult to tell, but the thickness looks different among them as well. All the arguing aside, I believe George (and others) may have used various types among the Cortland brand, and even others. I've simply seen too much variation to think otherwise. Enjoy!

Some of the variations you are showing look like rewraps on refinished cues?

 

[WildWing]

Some of the variations you are showing look like rewraps on refinished cues?

Possibility with 3rd and 4th, I have to admit, but hard to tell. However, 2nd is original according to the source, and looks the most different compared to the worn ones in terms of spacing of the specs. The net could probably be searched for other examples that have some variation in look; this was just a quick look. Although Cortland 9 may have been George's choice, my hunch is that he used what he got his hands on now and then. I remember comparing four examples in person in Syracuse in 1978 that had linen wraps looking quite different.