Explain This to Me...

[kvinbrwr]

A Searing joint. Ok, thats fair enuff.

I wasn't trying to be argumentative, just trying to make sense or figure out what the differences might be.

I certainly wasn't trying to make the comparison of a Tercel against a Rolls, altho I can see that the comparison of the same cue from different makers would be the same as your example.

Dennis is known for complete precision and attention to detail. That, and his constant experimentation and innovation, are the reasons his cues take so long to build.

Lets say his cues on the secondary market are twice as much as another top-line cue maker's comparable level cue. Does that mean that the Searing has to be twice as precise or is any increment of improvement "worth" it?

Does a Tiffany crystal goblet have to be 15,000 times better than a dixie cup to have value?

Some (not all) top-line cue makers are also renowned for playability. Searing (and BlackBoar) come to mind. I've never hit a ball with a Searing, but I have played with Tads and SWs (also known for "hit") and felt a difference in those cues so I expect a Searing would feel better also.

Searing build cues start at about 6K (on the secondary market). Paying 2-3K for an older conversion is a way for people to get Searing fit, finish, precision and hit for 1/3 of the price. To many that seems a value. Many doesn't have to mean everyone. The guy makes less than 15 cues a year, if "everyone" wanted one it would be trouble.

 

[kvinbrwr]

How are you defining CHEAP? Quality or price. You certainly can't tell either from the picture. So why would they reply CHEAP IMPORT? Just seemed like a snob thing to say to me. Maybe I took it the wrong way.

Maybe you did. Someone referring to a cue that sold for less than $100 new as cheap to me doesn't seem too snobbish, but different strokes for different folks.

 

[YubaCushion]

It depends...and that's the point. Each of us has different tastes, desires, loves, dislikes, finances, time, spirit, etc. So, putting an OBjective label on another Person for his/her SUBjective choices is unfair.

But maybe I'm labeling those actions as objective when they're also subjective.

My point was supposed to be the economic one: value IS subjective. It's not my money or my cue or my decision so I don't judge those decisions as stupid or wrong, just different than I'd choose, that's all.

Wishing you a good Thanksgiving weekend with lots o' love,

Jeff Livingston

Good point, well taken.
Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[jburkm002]

Must have missed where he mentioned how much the cue cost.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

You can't tell the quality of the cue at all.

On AZ, there are certainly many members who know their stuff when it comes to IDing cues.

In many ID cases, the quality, or lack there of is obvious, but, I have also seen and owned one or two Chinese imports that I have no problem with.

One that I kept, and treasure is a Balabushka Tribute cue, with two very nice shafts from Full Can Billiards. They also have Szam Tributes. The quality and playability of my GB cue is amazing. Thats why I kept it. The price was also amazing. They are an Axis brand. Of course, I sanded the name from the butt cap.

I bought a Chinese cue from Jim Baxter a few years ago. I can't remember the brand but I could find it. Ebony, or ebonized, can't be 100% on that one. White poplar or birch
veneers to accent the ebony points. Jim put a leather wrap on it. I sold it, ($150) and it is still being used after several years. The owner loves it.

I bought a cue on EBay some time ago, PR Brand, (Chinese) I was in contact with Paul Rubino and he assured me that it wasn't one of his cues. I didn't suspect that it was but it was, but I wanted to find out. Even in the pics, the quality wasn't there. Well under $100.

I refinished it, cut the long pilot joint and added a 3/8ths X 10 pin.
A shaft with a stiff European taper with sugar marks all over that was given to me.

A new wrap. The cue ended up being 57" and plays wonderful on a bar table.
Its always in my case as a spare or a loner.

So, my opinion, just because the quality in looks may not be there, doesn't necessarily mean that it automatically plays like a dog.

 

[kvinbrwr]

Must have missed where he mentioned how much the cue cost.

He (they) didn't. What they said instead was "cheap import" which is is. It is also a cue that cost less than $100 new, which, combined with the fact that it was imported, makes for a cheap import.

To say that that cue, if a Searing (which is isn't) would prove some point is like me saying if the cue was as a space alien it would prove my point that there is like outside of Earth. Its not a space alien, its not a Searing, its a cheap import.

Now if you can't tell the difference between that cue and a Searing, in fit, finish, design or playability, save yourself the 3K and be happy.

 

[kvinbrwr]

"You can't tell the quality of the cue at all."

Its a mistake to think that because you can't tell the quality, that others can't.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

You can't tell the quality of the cue at all.

On AZ, there are certainly many members who know their stuff when it comes to IDing cues.

In many ID cases, the quality, or lack there of is obvious, but, I have also seen and owned one or two Chinese imports that I have no problem with.

One that I kept, and treasure is a Balabushka Tribute cue, with two very nice shafts from Full Can Billiards. They also have Szam Tributes. The quality and playability of my GB cue is amazing. Thats why I kept it. The price was also amazing. They are an Axis brand. Of course, I sanded the name from the butt cap.

I bought a Chinese cue from Jim Baxter a few years ago. I can't remember the brand but I could find it. Ebony, or ebonized, can't be 100% on that one. White poplar or birch
veneers to accent the ebony points. Jim put a leather wrap on it. I sold it, ($150) and it is still being used after several years. The owner loves it.

I bought a cue on EBay some time ago, PR Brand, (Chinese) I was in contact with Paul Rubino and he assured me that it wasn't one of his cues. I didn't suspect that it was but it was, but I wanted to find out. Even in the pics, the quality wasn't there. Well under $100.

I refinished it, cut the long pilot joint and added a 3/8ths X 10 pin.
A shaft with a stiff European taper with sugar marks all over that was given to me.

A new wrap. The cue ended up being 57" and plays wonderful on a bar table.
Its always in my case as a spare or a loner.

So, my opinion, just because the quality in looks may not be there, doesn't necessarily mean that it automatically plays like a dog.

 

[jburkm002]

First off Searing was only an example. Secondly there was at first, only one photo when it was originally posted. The cue next to the guys foot laying on the floor from a distance. Exactly, the price was not mentioned. Not sure anyone could tell the quality of the cue from the first and only photo. Guess some guys can.

 

[kvinbrwr]

Guess some guys can.

Yup that is for sure the case here at AZ.

 

[jburkm002]

I also have a CHEAP import or at least that's what I believe. Since I don't know who the cue maker is. I did post it on here asking for ID help with no luck. I think it is well made but others might not agree. I will say this and it's just my opinion. Best hitting cue I have ever played with. Really wish I could find who the cue maker was because I would be several more.

 

[kvinbrwr]

I also have a CHEAP import or at least that's what I believe. Since I don't know who the cue maker is. I did post it on here asking for ID help with no luck. I think it is well made but others might not agree. I will say this and it's just my opinion. Best hitting cue I have ever played with. Really wish I could find who the cue maker was because I would be several more.

You posted your cue here and Joe Van didn't know ?

 

[jburkm002]

Yeah no one knew. Traded with a friend who got it off ebay. He didn't know the maker either. Wish there was a way to find out.

 

[jburkm002]

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=339778

 

[kvinbrwr]

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=339778

I don't know who made that cue. It wasn't Joe Van that said "cheap import" (he often uses that phrase), and I don't know how right the guy who did was.

I'll withdraw my "under $100" and stand by my "not a Searing".

Show that cue to Joe (classic cues) and you will probably know more after than you did before.

 

[Straightpool_99]

..............

 

[kvinbrwr]

Good advice right there.

You know, in any high-end collectibles, what separates the very top level from other levels is often very slight differences. Sometimes its not even differences, but history or other factors. Some can see the difference, some can't, but trust the judgment of experts or the name of the brand to guide them in their quest for 'the best".

One thing is for sure, if it seems 'not worth it" to you then its not.

Kevin

 

[Straightpool_99]

.............

 

[classiccues]

You posted your cue here and Joe Van didn't know ?

If someone posts a cue and I don't comment its one of three things...

1 - Its a Balabushka and I want it

2- Its an imported piece of crap and I don't want to be the bearer of bad news

3- I didn't see it

In this case...its not number 1 or 3. :grin:

JV

 

[PINKLADY]

You know, in any high-end collectibles, what separates the very top level from other levels is often very slight differences. Sometimes its not even differences, but history or other factors. Some can see the difference, some can't, but trust the judgment of experts or the name of the brand to guide them in their quest for 'the best".

One thing is for sure, if it seems 'not worth it" to you then its not.

Kevin

i sell high-end "original" furniture, as well as low-end "knock-offs".
those who know - know.
and those who don't - don't care.
it's all about their budget, in this economy.
and ETAs w/ $$$$$ on the table.
and the risk involved vs GOB.
and CYAing.