Explain This to Me...

[cueaddicts]

The problem with paying a deposit......

Gonna type this real slowly so it sinks in.

For some cuemakers, they have no real intention of building your cue unless you are a 'big fish' (by big fish, I mean ICCS exhibitor or buddies with them, millionaire collector, or well plugged in with the maker's nut huggers).

It's not as it seems...which should be a regular business deal.

It doesn't matter if you're an average Joe (player) that just wants a cue and would never flip it. If you post up your deposit with a few of the makers, it's very high odds it will not end well. Especially after you've been waiting 10 or more years and seen some other guy that can't make 4 balls get his cue in only 3 years from placing an order.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Lisa, I have absolutely no doubt re the complexity or craftsmanship that have gone into some of the items that you listed.

The only point that I tried to make is that once a craftsman starts on your order, they can basically go from start to finish.

You mentioned, Only Inlays. Try cutting the points into a fore arm. Then, you have to let that sit for some time. Maybe or maybe not, the maker has already cut your points, your veneers, and glued them up, ready to be glued into the fore arm.

Once your fore arm sits, the point material with veneers is glued into the fore arm. Wrapped in wax paper and tied with surgical tubing. This is going to also sit and sleep for some time. Once this happens, the maker probably won't cut the entire points down to size in one sitting.

What happens when, oops, even tho the fore arm has been sitting for 3 months, it accidentally has a warp in it. Will it come out with the next cut, and if it does, will it come back. Do I have to start over.

Anyway, I believe that you know the drill by now and I am just preaching to the choir.

Myself, I know that there are some days that I am not in the mood to hear the router. some days, I would prefer not to be sanding. some days, I would prefer not to be finishing.

Cue makers, and I'm not professing to be one by a country mile, ( just repairs) well, I can be finicky this way. Do you think that any full fledged makers are any different than myself.

The only thing that I will do on time is when I have promised a cue by certain night for league. I won't let players hang while waiting for a repair. If I take one in, I make sure that he has it by the next league night.

 

[ridewiththewind]

Lisa, I have absolutely no doubt re the complexity or craftsmanship that have gone into some of the items that you listed.

The only point that I tried to make is that once a craftsman starts on your order, they can basically go from start to finish.

You mentioned, Only Inlays. Try cutting the points into a fore arm. Then, you have to let that sit for some time. Maybe or maybe not, the maker has already cut your points, your veneers, and glued them up, ready to be glued into the fore arm.

Once your fore arm sits, the point material with veneers is glued into the fore arm. Wrapped in wax paper and tied with surgical tubing. This is going to also sit and sleep for some time. Once this happens, the maker probably won't cut the entire points down to size in one sitting.

What happens when, oops, even tho the fore arm has been sitting for 3 months, it accidentally has a warp in it. Will it come out with the next cut, and if it does, will it come back. Do I have to start over.

Anyway, I believe that you know the drill by now and I am just preaching to the choir.

Myself, I know that there are some days that I am not in the mood to hear the router. some days, I would prefer not to be sanding. some days, I would prefer not to be finishing.

Cue makers, and I'm not professing to be one by a country mile, ( just repairs) well, I can be finicky this way. Do you think that any full fledged makers are any different than myself.

The only thing that I will do on time is when I have promised a cue by certain night for league. I won't let players hang while waiting for a repair. If I take one in, I make sure that he has it by the next league night.

I get all that. But there is still no justification for the added costs beyond a certain point...then it's all about bragging rights.

 

[mia]

You just cannot resist yourself, can you?

I did not make it personal....I did not tell anyone how to spend their money. I wanted to know why, and made a statement of FACT...that if you continue to reward poor behavior, there is little incentive for it to change. If you want things to change, quit rewarding poor behavior. Pretty simple, really. It defies normal convention that the more you spend, the crappier you should expect to be treated.

What I did NOT say...but will now, is this: If you knowingly enter into a transaction with a maker that you KNOW there have been issues with....don't come crying here about it when it all goes South. It's not like you didn't have a clue.

Can't resist myself???

Lisa, we've known each other through this forum and others for the better part of 10 years now. When are you ever going to learn that people disagreeing with you is not them being mean to you or ganging up on you. It's just them seeing things differently.

Don't go getting your feelings hurt. Toughen up a little. Not everyone is going to share your point of view all the time. And you're not always right. Get used to that and you'll end up getting "ganged up on" less.

 

[cueaddicts]

....and of course there are also some awesome top-shelf makers that are honest, beyond reliable and deliver what they promise, when they say, and for the price they quote.

Those are the guys that should be rewarded in this industry imo. :thumbup:

 

[ridewiththewind]

Can't resist myself???

Lisa, we've known each other through this forum and others for the better part of 10 years now. When are you ever going to learn that people disagreeing with you is not them being mean to you or ganging up on you. It's just them seeing things differently.

Don't go getting your feelings hurt. Toughen up a little. Not everyone is going to share your point of view all the time. And you're not always right. Get used to that and you'll end up getting "ganged up on" less.

My feelings weren't hurt. And not everyone has to agree with me...I'm okay with that. But there is a nice way to disagree, without sounding condescending.

I started the thread because I was raised that if you are treated poorly, you take your money to where it is valued. Pretty simple concept. I am certainly not going to spend my hard earned dollars where I am treated like crap....it's just not gonna happen...I don't care who it is. I don't acquire cues with their perceived value in mind, because the plan is to never sell them. Sometimes stuff happens, and your hand is forced...and like everyone else who runs into hard times, you take your lumps.

I have never looked at cues as an investment, because I really don't think they are....as witnessed by a lot of once highly desirable cues that are now languishing in the W/FS. I do need or want to keep up with the Jones'. I liked my cues; they could be the butt ugliest cues on the planet, but I don't care, because they were MY butt ugliest cues on the planet. And hopefully, one by one, I will get them back...at least most of them.

Now, I realize that being treated crappy by a maker isn't limited to higher end makers....far from it. However, I believe that when you are throwing down that kind of money on a cue, you should be getting the royal treatment, ie; no BS, on time delivery, top notch work throughout, and maybe, just maybe a wee bit of appreciation for choosing to throw down that kind of money that particular maker's way...instead of somewhere else.

Also.....I detest arrogance with a passion.

 

[ridewiththewind]

....and of course there are also some awesome top-shelf makers that are honest, beyond reliable and deliver what they promise, when they say, and for the price they quote.

Those are the guys that should be rewarded in this industry imo. :thumbup:

Exactly!!!!!

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I'm guessing CreeDo plays with a $150 McDermott. That was a funny post CD - in a peculiar way.

 

[Jodacus]

If you are willing to wait for something you want why not? Personally I'm glad I have a choice and don't have to abide by the opinion of someone else. Blah, blah, blah, you are welcome to your opinion and you are not qualified to to judge mine.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

without sounding condescending.

So, when you say: You obviously haven't a clue, Nice try, thanks for playing.

Thats considered a fair answer?

Or, does it really mean, you're right, I'm wrong but I can't admit it so I'll just blow you off.

 

[ridewiththewind]

So, when you say: You obviously haven't a clue, Nice try, thanks for playing.

Thats considered a fair answer?

Or, does it really mean, you're right, I'm wrong but I can't admit it so I'll just blow you off.

I don't start out that way....but know this, I can give as good as I get.

 

[mia]

I don't start out that way....but know this, I can give as good as I get.

But I wasn't "giving it to you". You started this thread as a rant against the buying practices of others. "Why do we do it?!?!" Why? Because we want something. And the cue maker has that something. That's why. If it bothers you, that's great! Walk away and refuse to deal with them. Ever. But you can't seriously expect an entire market of consumers to adopt your ideals. And that's really what this thread was about from its inception.

But in the end, know this. You asked a question. I gave an answer. Plain and simple. I wasn't being condescending. I was being truthful in a very blunt and matter-of-fact way. If you didn't like someone pointing out the obvious answer to a simple question, that's on you. Not me.

-B <--------- is used to Lisa feeling picked on

 

[RRfireblade]

Then obviously, you haven't a clue. Thanks for backing me up. Nice try, thanks for playing!

Well so much for having a 'discussion'.

Shall we call you Ms kettle now ?

:grin-square:

Sorry this whole thing isn't going as you had hoped, must be quite frustrating.

 

[Straightpool_99]

The whole industry baffles me.

I'm gonna blow a load of cash on a gussied up tool for playing a game,
a tool which is about as simple and utilitarian as a baseball bat or a salad fork.

I will put down a thousand or so in order to hear some new and interesting excuses
over the course of the next 12-36 months. I can have my texts, emails, facebook posts,
and AZ posts ignored while the cuemaker struggles with illness/divorce/a massive backlog/apathy.

If I'm lucky, at the end of the third year, I will be informed the cuemaker is holding my stick hostage
and I can have it if I pay the quoted price plus a 20% "fυck you" charge.

There will be some crying about shipping cost and the condition it arrives in,
then I will agonize over every inlay with a microscope.
Perhaps if something is a millimeter off I will post on AZ and really stick it to him!

I'm gonna do this so I can hang it on my wall where nobody will ever see it but me.
I guess it's "art"? I mean, I could spend $3,000 on a painting,
but I prefer my artwork to only be an inch wide, and I want half of my artwork to be plain.

The lower half I want to be more or less just another unoriginal arrangement of points,
circles, boxes, and rings. Nothing too wild please. Nothing pictorial. Just basic shapes.
If a fifth grader can't draw it on graph paper, I don't want it.

Also, let's not do any tacky colors like blue, green, purple, yellow, and so on.
Shades of brown for me. A little red and orange because those go nicely with brown.
Throw in some black and white if you want to go butt-wild with artistic creativity.

Actually, scratch that, let's stick to light brown, medium brown, and dark brown.
I want it to be a "Sneaky Pete" because I fancy myself a crafty hustler.
I will have to find a target who has only been playing pool for 15 minutes,
otherwise he will realize it's not a house cue.

Maybe I'll bring it out to the pool hall and carefully hit some balls with it.
Absolutely nobody else will recognize it as special and expensive, in the sea of brown cues.
But on the rare chance someone does make a remark, I will say "yes, this is a [cuemaker's name] cue."

I will try not to feel hurt when they don't recognize the name.
Maybe I could casually drop how much it cost and mention the waiting period.

If they consent to a game, they will be wowed that a C+ player almost ran a rack
thanks to my amazing cue that has the exact weight, taper, buttcap and joint protectors that I prefer.
They will ask "How did you do that??" when I miss a routine inside english three railer that deflected
so hard the cueball flew past my left elbow.
They will beg to hit a ball and then feel puzzled that it feels just like a $150 McDermott.

Then they will miss the Q-Claw while putting it back and it will get a ding
that costs me another $120 and 7 months wait.

When I go home I will hang it next to the 6 other brown cues I already own,
and then hop on AZ and Ebay and see what other cue is for sale.
Maybe I can find one that hits 1.15 tons and will finally make me a B player!

:rotflmao1: It is puzzling isn't it. This sums up my thoughts on custom cues quite well. Why is it that no one ever wants anything original or even truly custom? Unless every aspect of the cue has been made to exactly fit your taste and game, it isn't really custom. All it is is a small scale production cue. All most of the cue fanatics want is to stare at dogsxxt brown points with a magnifying glass. While this is going on the loose weightbolt in Van Boenings Cuetec keeps buzzing in the background...

If someone were to use championship statistics to select their cue, Cuetec would be the hands down obvious choice. Food for thought I'd think. Also, as far as I know the waiting list is 0 years, they will most likely never curse at you or steal your money either. Or how about a nice McDermott custom model. You know they can make a cue just the way you want it, with aged wood and nice craftsmanship too. They'll even give you a warranty for life. I do have a low end custom cue, that I bought in the secondary market. It's as good a cue as I'll ever need, it plays way better than I ever will. If I ever want something fancy looking I'm seriously thinking about going the McDermott route. Laugh if you want. At least I won't get stiffed. I won't have to wait all that long either.

 

[ridewiththewind]

I honestly could care less how people want to spend their money...but when you go into it knowing there could be an issue...and then there is...I have little to no sympathy for you.

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk

 

[YubaCushion]

The whole industry baffles me.

I'm gonna blow a load of cash on a gussied up tool for playing a game,
a tool which is about as simple and utilitarian as a baseball bat or a salad fork.

I will put down a thousand or so in order to hear some new and interesting excuses
over the course of the next 12-36 months. I can have my texts, emails, facebook posts,
and AZ posts ignored while the cuemaker struggles with illness/divorce/a massive backlog/apathy.

If I'm lucky, at the end of the third year, I will be informed the cuemaker is holding my stick hostage
and I can have it if I pay the quoted price plus a 20% "fυck you" charge.

There will be some crying about shipping cost and the condition it arrives in,
then I will agonize over every inlay with a microscope.
Perhaps if something is a millimeter off I will post on AZ and really stick it to him!

I'm gonna do this so I can hang it on my wall where nobody will ever see it but me.
I guess it's "art"? I mean, I could spend $3,000 on a painting,
but I prefer my artwork to only be an inch wide, and I want half of my artwork to be plain.

The lower half I want to be more or less just another unoriginal arrangement of points,
circles, boxes, and rings. Nothing too wild please. Nothing pictorial. Just basic shapes.
If a fifth grader can't draw it on graph paper, I don't want it.

Also, let's not do any tacky colors like blue, green, purple, yellow, and so on.
Shades of brown for me. A little red and orange because those go nicely with brown.
Throw in some black and white if you want to go butt-wild with artistic creativity.

Actually, scratch that, let's stick to light brown, medium brown, and dark brown.
I want it to be a "Sneaky Pete" because I fancy myself a crafty hustler.
I will have to find a target who has only been playing pool for 15 minutes,
otherwise he will realize it's not a house cue.

Maybe I'll bring it out to the pool hall and carefully hit some balls with it.
Absolutely nobody else will recognize it as special and expensive, in the sea of brown cues.
But on the rare chance someone does make a remark, I will say "yes, this is a [cuemaker's name] cue."

I will try not to feel hurt when they don't recognize the name.
Maybe I could casually drop how much it cost and mention the waiting period.

If they consent to a game, they will be wowed that a C+ player almost ran a rack
thanks to my amazing cue that has the exact weight, taper, buttcap and joint protectors that I prefer.
They will ask "How did you do that??" when I miss a routine inside english three railer that deflected
so hard the cueball flew past my left elbow.
They will beg to hit a ball and then feel puzzled that it feels just like a $150 McDermott.

Then they will miss the Q-Claw while putting it back and it will get a ding
that costs me another $120 and 7 months wait.

When I go home I will hang it next to the 6 other brown cues I already own,
and then hop on AZ and Ebay and see what other cue is for sale.
Maybe I can find one that hits 1.15 tons and will finally make me a B player!

This is the greatest cue post EVER. Thank you for the rest of your life.

 

[JAM]

Only in America are production cues more popular than overseas. American custom cuemakers enjoy successs overseas in the Asian markets, much more than here on U.S. soil.

One local cuemaker has a long waiting list, and according to him, he sells 90 percent of his cues overseas, not here.

If I were shooting pool again, I would be a recreational player, and I wouldn't care one iota what brand my cue was. I'd be going for what felt right, had a good hit, and didn't cost an arm in a leg. IOW, I'd be one of those Americans purchasing a production cue.

 

[chefjeff]

I didn't say it to be mean. Would you consider marrying some one you never met stupid?
Cause it's pretty close.

It depends...and that's the point. Each of us has different tastes, desires, loves, dislikes, finances, time, spirit, etc. So, putting an OBjective label on another Person for his/her SUBjective choices is unfair.

But maybe I'm labeling those actions as objective when they're also subjective.

My point was supposed to be the economic one: value IS subjective. It's not my money or my cue or my decision so I don't judge those decisions as stupid or wrong, just different than I'd choose, that's all.

Wishing you a good Thanksgiving weekend with lots o' love,

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

Glen

You are under-priced for what you provide. I wish i could figure out a way to flip your services.

Kevin

Let me add on more economic item here...

Glen could reduce his wait times by charging more for his cues. That would make him more money per cue and shorten the wait times (and probably the size of the wait list) for those who want his cues so much and sooner that they'd pay more. The marketplace uses such peaceful ways to fix such things.


Jeff Livingston

 

[realkingcobra]

Let me add on more economic item here...

Glen could reduce his wait times by charging more for his cues. That would make him more money per cue and shorten the wait times (and probably the size of the wait list) for those who want his cues so much and sooner that they'd pay more. The marketplace uses such peaceful ways to fix such things.


Jeff Livingston

Hmmmm...cues? Sorry, but I don't build cues...LOL