Setting a trap

measureman

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have played a couple times with a fellow AZer who does not know a lot about 14.1.
I have been stressing to him that playing safes is not always about denying your opponent a shot but in the right situations it's about setting a trap that gives you the best chance of getting the first shot.
Anybody else think about setting traps?
I also enjoy a back and forth safety play.
 
I don't think 14.1 safety play is about setting traps at all.

In fact, the one pocket players best understand the concept of gradually developing threats that make responses harder and harder.

The key to defensive play in 14.1 is knowing how to play safe while creating threats away from the rack that make opponent's responses more and more difficult as the safety battle continues.

Just like in one pocket, barring major errors in execution, winning a safety battle in 14.1 is about gradually turning up the heat, not about setting traps.

Steady and smart wins the race to the shot.
 
sjm said:
I don't think 14.1 safety play is about setting traps at all.

In fact, the one pocket players best understand the concept of gradually developing threats that make responses harder and harder.

The key to defensive play in 14.1 is knowing how to play safe while creating threats away from the rack that make opponent's responses more and more difficult as the safety battle continues.

Just like in one pocket, barring major errors in execution, winning a safety battle in 14.1 is about gradually turning up the heat, not about setting traps.

Steady and smart wins the race to the shot.
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I must disagree with you. I believe there are many times where you might tempt a player with a shot which will put him in a bad spot or breaks balls out where no matter what your opponent does he will give up a shot.
 
BigDeal52 said:
I must disagree with you. I believe there are many times where you might tempt a player with a shot which will put him in a bad spot or breaks balls out where no matter what your opponent does he will give up a shot.
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Yes, that's true. I have not accounted for opponents who make inferior decisions. I am merely rejecting the principle that this is the correct approach to safety play at 14.1. Far better to learn how to win a war of attrition.

Irving Crane, the best ever at 14.1 safety play, won wars of attrition, and players who are trying to maximize what they get out of their safety play should do the same.

Having said all that, though, if your opponent is a known quantity and has demonstrated a tendency to make inferior decisions at the table in these types of sequences, it's sensible to set a trap.
 
measureman said:
I have played a couple times with a fellow AZer who does not know a lot about 14.1.
I have been stressing to him that playing safes is not always about denying your opponent a shot but in the right situations it's about setting a trap that gives you the best chance of getting the first shot.
Anybody else think about setting traps?
I also enjoy a back and forth safety play.
Click to expand...
Yes, but a trap often looks like a safety play. One example that comes up fairly frequently is to leave a shot that will get one point if it makes with very little possibility of continuing but if it misses it may leave the other player a way to run them.

A specific example would be: the break ball is on the headstring near a side cushion and the rack is unbroken. The cue ball is by the side pocket on the other side of the table. The cut shot is a trap. If the player makes it, only a hero shot could get a break. If the ball hangs in the jaws, the other player may get a run started.
 
Let me explain what I mean a little better.
There was a ball behind the rack near the short rail. there was also a ball near the long rail below the side pocket.There was an opportunity to put a ball on the opposite long rail below the side pocket and freeze the cue ball to the rack.Trap.The incoming player had very little chance of playing a safe with out giving up a shot.Would it have been possible? Yes but very difficult.
I guess you had to be there.
 
Measureman- maybe it's just semantics or mincing words, but what you describe sounds like a fantastic safety play; positioning balls on the table and then leaving no real safety play in return without leaving you a shot.

To me, a trap is what Bob describes. Or knowing your opponent well enough to leave a shot that is just outside of his skill level (that is making the shot and breaking out a cluster or getting shape easily).

Good topic.


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My mentor way back when I told me to always think about at least 2 safeties before you shoot. He loved to call it " all me and and no you"

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Love that quip!
"All me and no you.".

Safety play in 1-pocket and 14.1 requires "chess" like thinking.
One very strong move is the intentional foul.
Often a good intentional foul turns the safety play around,
 
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Bob Jewett said:
Yes, but a trap often looks like a safety play. One example that comes up fairly frequently is to leave a shot that will get one point if it makes with very little possibility of continuing but if it misses it may leave the other player a way to run them.

A specific example would be: the break ball is on the headstring near a side cushion and the rack is unbroken. The cue ball is by the side pocket on the other side of the table. The cut shot is a trap. If the player makes it, only a hero shot could get a break. If the ball hangs in the jaws, the other player may get a run started.
Click to expand...

Hence the Danny DiLiberto quote:

"Never play a shot that can lose you the rack unless it can also win you the rack."

If a trap means an opportunity for opponent to go wrong, nearly every shot in 14.1 qualifies as a trap.
 
I think we're too hung-up on the word "trap". I'm not even sure what a trap is at this point. Everything SJM has said is correct about safety play but I'm not sure he's addressed 'traps" per se. I get the impression we're talking about a scenario where Player A leaves something hoping Player B will make a mistake. I mean, isn't that always the case? Aren't we *always* hoping our opponents make mental errors? The fundamental problem with leaving a shot, even an innocuous one is, you may not be 100% aware of what your opponent is capable of doing. What's more, assuming they're reasonably competent, your opponent will surely be aware of the dead-end in front of him. This isn't rocket science. You make the ball and position for a shot. If you can't position for a shot, you have to consider the value of making the ball. That's about it.

In my humble opinion, the simplest strategies in 14.1 are often the best. The more complex it gets, the more you rely on your opponent's shortcomings, the more you set yourself up for disaster.
 
It sounds to me like Measureman and SJM are describing the same thing but using different terminology. The alternative, naive strategy to Measureman's example is freezing the cue ball to the rack and *not* putting the object ball on the other long rail. That leaves your opponent with an easier return safety. That option is clearly an inferior strategic move even though it satisfies the immediate desire of a safety, i.e., to not leave a pottable ball.
 
trap = ego

Jude Rosenstock said:
I think we're too hung-up on the word "trap". I'm not even sure what a trap is at this point. Everything SJM has said is correct about safety play but I'm not sure he's addressed 'traps" per se. I get the impression we're talking about a scenario where Player A leaves something hoping Player B will make a mistake. I mean, isn't that always the case? Aren't we *always* hoping our opponents make mental errors? The fundamental problem with leaving a shot, even an innocuous one is, you may not be 100% aware of what your opponent is capable of doing. What's more, assuming they're reasonably competent, your opponent will surely be aware of the dead-end in front of him. This isn't rocket science. You make the ball and position for a shot. If you can't position for a shot, you have to consider the value of making the ball. That's about it.

In my humble opinion, the simplest strategies in 14.1 are often the best. The more complex it gets, the more you rely on your opponent's shortcomings, the more you set yourself up for disaster.
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I agree with this response and with sjm also, I think we want to strive as players to think less about the opponent and more about the game. Also the word trap is more associated with the ego and hustling - better to gain advantages and not focus on trapping or deceiving your opponent, that is wasted energy. But a yard stick for lunatics is one point of view.
 
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